Talk:Arcade video game

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Proposal for structure change[edit]

Resolved
 – Needed articles now exist.

It is proposed that a general article on Computer and video games be created to give an overview of the topic for the novice, and provide links to other, more specific articles for the passionate. This article is being drafted at Talk:Computer game/Computer and video games. It is proposed that the articles on Computer game, Video game, Adventure, Interactive fiction and Arcade game would remain, but focus on elements that are unique to those subcategories. Please edit, and discuss! Mark Richards 23:16, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Largest arcade[edit]

Resolved
 – Off=topic; this is not Arcade.

So, what's the largest arcade in the world? Anyknow know? --Chuck SMITH

Tough call... It would probably be in Dubai or one of the other wealthy spots in the Arab world. There may still be mega-arcades in Japan as well. Hmmm... maybe a bit of research...

List of arcade games[edit]

Resolved
 – List exists.

There are a bunch of individual arcade game pages. Perhaps there should be a "list of arcadge games" page.

Yes, a list would be good. Stan 06:35, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Taken care of. There is now a list of arcade games. — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:15, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

Arcarde name[edit]

Resolved
 – Off-topic; this is not the Arcade article.

Why are Arcade games called Arcade games, and game arcades called game arcades?

I could make a wild guess based on the original meaning of the word "arcade", but it would be nice to know how the term really came to be.

The name came about from carnivals/fairs, where all the games would be in a row resembling the covered arched passageway that is the original "arcade". This article hints at that, but is a little vague. Stan 06:35, 17 Dec 2003 (UTC)

The original term was "penny arcade".
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/penny+arcade

Kortoso (talk) 23:30, 17 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

New WikiProject for Arcade Games[edit]

Resolved
 – Just an FYI.

I started a new project for arcade games: Wikipedia:WikiProject Arcade Games. We've already developed an Infobox (you can see it in the Pac-Man article) and are working on a standard template. If you want to help out, come on over and added yourself to the participants. :-) Cheers! — Frecklefoot | Talk 16:15, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

Long since moved to Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Arcade as a taskforce. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 22:21, 21 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Arcade as a game genre[edit]

I think this article should mention the fact that "arcade" is also a videogame genre. Like, for example, most Sega Genesis home console titles. You see, when home consoles wanted to be more like arcades a lot of arcade games became home console games.

And now I have this huge headache.

Arcade is not just an arcade machine, is a videogame genre, that's what I'm trying to say.

I know what you're talking about. Games that are labeled as "arcade-ish" usually have low learning curves, simple incentives, and the ability to entertain in a limited amount of time. For example, I remember playing a motorcycle racing sim computer game, and it had levels of difficulty, from "realistic" to "arcade". "Realistic" had a complex array of keys for controlling the rider's height, weight distribution, leaning, etc., while "arcade" had a greatly simplified scheme where the player just controlled the turning and speed. --Poiuyt Man (talk) 10:36, 1 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]


Quality[edit]

Something needs to be said about how... in terms of how "good" games were at the time, arcade games were famously better for a long time... you know, back when the best console you could buy was '8-bit' NES, etc.. arcade games looked as good as, if not better than, the later 16-bit SNES and Genesis games and so on. The whole thing about 'porting' games from arcade to console and how something was always lost since the consoles were somehow 'worse' (like couldn't handle voice clips). This aspect has always stuck in my mind partially because it's so confusing (how do you make an arcade game of a quality you can't make consoles of?) --216.49.220.19

If you think it needs to be said (and I think its relavent), go ahead and add it. This is a wiki.
To answer your question, arcade games were generally much better than their console (and/or home computer) ports because they used a great number of specialized chips and other specialized hardware. Many of their parts were manufactured just for that game. Video game consoles, on the other hand, used chips that were for rendering and playing a wide variety of games. They didn't have the specialized hardware the arcade games did. And many couldn't include a great deal of memory in order to keep the costs down (for example, voice clips require a lot of memory). Arcade games could afford the large amounts of memory (well, for an arcade game, voice clips and sound effects were usually contained in custom ROM chips, but the idea is similar) and specialized circuits because they were just trying to deliver one game, not a variety of them, and the total cost was transparent to the custumer, who only plunked down one (or two, three, four) quarters or tokens.
Also, when new arcade games were developed, they could use the "latest and greatest" hardware, because they were, more often than not, starting from scratch for the new game. Even if they weren't starting from the ground up, incorporating new hardware into an old system is do-able for arcade games. But once consoles (or home computers) were delivered, they were pretty much stuck with the state of the hardware when they came out. Home computers have limited upgradability, but consoles have none. So they did there best to emulate the look and feel of the arcade game with their system's limited power. Does that help? — Frecklefoot | Talk 18:20, August 31, 2005 (UTC)
But this "latest and greatest" element of the arcades disappeared largely in the late 90's, which was obviously a big element of their downfall (they lost one big competative advantage). The primary reason is because the extremely high game turnover in Japan (where they would swap out games after like only a few months instead of a year like in us arcades) forced game makers to adopt standardized "arcade consolees" like the CPS2 to save money.

Skill tester[edit]

What about those machines where you direct a claw to try and pick up prizes, what are they called (Otto is seen using one in The Simpsons episode Team Homer (where Homer creates a bowling team).

They are called "merchandisers"

Arcade Manuals?[edit]

I have been editing the Splatterhouse article and noticed someone changed a line to denote mention of an "arcade manual" and I am wondering if such a thing ever existed. Logically and personally, I have never seen one nor even considered the existence of one since arcade cabinets usually simply stated in the game how to play them and covered the story, etc. TheMonkofDestiny 20:44, 20 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Most arcade games came with a manual that was intended for the owner/operator of the game. They're technical in nature and explain the settings for dip switches and told how to care for the game, replace broken parts, etc. That's most likely what he was referring to. — Frecklefoot | Talk 21:30, 20 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
If you go to the Killer List of Videogames, they have links to several manuals for popular arcade games. — Frecklefoot | Talk 21:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Ah. I now consider myself better informed. TheMonkofDestiny 12:39, 19 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Worldwide view[edit]

This articles seems to talk primarily on arcade games in the US, but not on arcade games around the world. For example, the article states that arcade games died out around the lated 1980's, which is only relevant in the US and not in places such as Japan where arcades are still very popular.--TBCTaLk?!? 09:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's covered in video arcade. But you're right, this article could be updated to include that information as well. — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:29, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

spam link?[edit]

the BMI site cited here is primarily a sales site for arcade games; can we find a better source for "top 100 arcade games" listing than this one? SpikeJones 00:04, 13 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Removed as spam, WP:SPAM. — Frecklefoot | Talk 15:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Improving language[edit]

The article currently says:

"One form of interactive technology, virtual reality, has failed to truly become popular in arcade games, but this is due to technical limitations preventing games from being able to achieve convincing virtual reality in the first place."

Size and cost of the technology are just as big, if not bigger, reasons; it's also not clear that the technology is not "popular;" perhaps "has failed to see widespread adoption" would be a better term that does not assert popularity or a lack of it. --Edwin Herdman 22:24, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Removed link to 39-in-1 Arcade[edit]

There are a huge number of arcade emulation devices, 39-in-1 isn't particularly notable. Tobias Lobster 23:45, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What happened/push coins[edit]

What happened to this article? I came here trying to find out what you call that game where you put in coins and these lever arms (eventually) push them out. It looks like there used to be a nice, well-organized complete article here, and it's been messed up. The March 25 version looks better than what's in here now. I don't want to touch it because it looks like someone has a plan... does someone? stephan.com 21:14, 25 March 2007 (UTC) Oh, yeah, the coin game appears to be called Flip-It and as of this writing lacks a Wikipedia entry. More info [1][reply]

Emulation Misconceptions[edit]

The article previously included this sentence: Users can abuse the freely distributed ROMs, provided under the pretext users download them to replicate games they own on a more convenient medium through MAME or others, and download games they do not own, thus violating copyright.

This is both misleading and potentially inaccurate. ROMs are not distributed by the MAME team to the general public, and just as importantly the pretext that ROMs are available on the pretext that you must own the actual systems is (and always has been) bunk and would not stand up in court. I have also noticed that erroneous justifications on this pretext (or some variation of the apparently made-up "24 hours rule") are less common nowadays. If you have a real arcade machine, you may dump the ROMs yourself. As a result, I've edited the Emulation section slightly. --Edwin Herdman 05:41, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ideally the section should be externally referenced; Console emulator#Legal issues isn't referenced either. Marasmusine 06:42, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]


Bar/bestaurant environment being "new" debate[edit]

Very simply put, Dave and Buster's did not invent the concept. Ground Round was doing that in the 70's and 80's, and The Tomfooleries chain was also doing that in the early 80's, as were several others. --Marty Goldberg 21:09, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gatti's Pizza[edit]

From their web site-http://www.gattispizza.com/about

Then in the late 1980s — seeing a natural connection between pizza that both kids and parents would enjoy and the need for wholesome family entertainment — Mr. Gatti's began integrating game rooms with top-quality, "All You Care-To-Eat" buffets. This new combination of big-screen TVs, video games and delicious pizza brought in the whole family to "Eat Up The Fun."

Notice it says "Late 1980's"? Now can I remove the incorrect reference in the article? ok thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.247.215.55 (talk) 11:58, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not incorrect. As stated the sentence says, "70's and 80's". I wrote the original sentence, and changed it to 70's and 80's rather than "70's and early 80's" in the next edit. Quit trying to change it back. And drop the sarcasm, it'll get people to take your arguments more seriously stop considering having the page protected from further edits and having your account reported. --Marty Goldberg 15:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There needs to be a distinction between the arcade/restaurants of the late 70s and early 80s that were original, and the restaurants that ADDED arcades in the late 80s early 90s (Gatti's Pizza) 24.247.215.55 12:26, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

For what reason other than to push you war on Gatti's vs. Dave and Busters? It serves no content purpose, and no importance to industry history. Specifically, the history of locations with restaurants and arcades becoming popular during that time period. --Marty Goldberg 15:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Don't worry, Gatti's pizza is still mentioned later in the article. I know you seem to have a fondness for them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.247.215.55 (talk) 12:46, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not any more than your fondness for Dave and Busters. The irony, is I didn't even add Gatti's to the entry in the first place. And that distinction is not your concern, or you would have changed it to not include Ground Round as well by those guidelines. You're just trying to turn this in to a contest to force your content, and that kind of conduct has no place on Wikipedia. Plenty of other contributors managed to follow the guidelines and contribute meaningful content. --Marty Goldberg 15:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

to wgungfu[edit]

This line is a segue into the next paragraph-

" but the advent of the World Wide Web on the Internet coupled with the increasing power of home video game consoles caused a fragmentation of the entertainment industry. Arcades would never be the same again."

The reference to the WWW needs to be where it is in the article. It is common knowledge that the internet played a big role in the fragmentation of the industry. If you want to rewrite it, fine, but don't eliminate it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.247.215.55 (talk) 12:06, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Once again, common knowledge is not a reference. The page you added is not a reference. You need to cite specific works. Likewise, repetition is not a segue, its repetition. Its bad form to repeat information already there. You're obviously new to here, and have yet to figure out how Wikipedia works. --Marty Goldberg 15:25, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Anon user, the policy page WP:Verifiability may help you. Marasmusine 15:29, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, he's been pointed to WP:OR which includes links to that and other relative policy guidelines. If he was that interested in doing anything other than what he's been doing and how he's been conducting himself, he'd have followed it long ago. --Marty Goldberg 15:42, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
In order to compromise, I just added material on the rise of Internet/Network based gaming (which he was confusing for the WWW, which is something that runs *on* the Internet and is not the Internet itself). Likewise added a segue via the first paragraph of the next sentence to avoid repeptition of material. --Marty Goldberg 16:04, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the point I have been having a hard time expressing. People quit going to arcades in large numbers in the latter half of the 1990s because they had many more media options available to them. Yes I know the WWW is not the Internet, that was an unfortunate typo. All aspects of the Internet affected arcade traffic and mall shopping in general. Shopping, gaming, chatting, looking at porn, etc. kept people at home. Home game consoles got more powerful, casinos proliferated, kids participated in sports (soccer) in larger numbers are all factors. When I can find the correct way to source this I will. I'm in the arcade business. I own, operate, and repair games for a living, and have been doing it for 20 years. I know whats going on. I talk to other operators, manufacturers, and distributors. My paragraph above " but the advent of the World Wide Web on the Internet coupled with the increasing power of home video game consoles caused a fragmentation of the entertainment industry. Arcades would never be the same again." was meant to express the fact that not just Internet gaming, but the Internet as a whole affected the industry. I added it in a place I though it belonged in the timeline.

Another thing. There in an inconsistancy in the article with respect to restaurant/arcades that I have been trying to fix but Wgunfu keeps undoing. Gatti's pizza didn't become a "fun center" until the late 1980s. Chuck E. Cheese started out as a "fun center", Gatti's started out as a pizza place.

"During the late 70's and 80's, chains such as Chuck E Cheese, Ground Round, Dave and Busters, and Gatti's Pizza combined the traditional restaurant and/or bar environment with arcades. [2]"

"To remain viable, arcades added other elements to compliment the video games such as redemption games, merchandisers, and food service. Referred to as "fun centers" or "family fun centers" [5], some of the longstanding chains such as Chuck E. Cheese and Gatti's Pizza ("GattiTowns")[6] also changed to this format. "

I'm not sure the correct way to rewrite this. The second paragraph would be correct if you removed Chuck E. Cheese since it already contained the elements of a "fun center". The first paragraph would be correct if you changed it to "late 70s and early 80s" and removed Gatti's pizza.

Somehow the article should be changed to make the point that in order to survive, arcades added the elements that Chuck E. Cheese was already using.

Just my two-cents. I guess I don't have the editing talents that some Wikipedia articles demand. 24.247.215.55 19:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

1st coin-op game?[edit]

Didn't Heron of Alexandria created the first interactive coin-op game? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.191.180.171 (talk) 04:03, 26 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you consider paying for holy water a game. He could be considered the creator of the first vending machine though.Asher196 (talk) 04:05, 26 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, something like a chocolate vending machine couldn't really be called a game machine. :) Fnagaton 08:25, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It seems there might need to be some clarification for the article, making reference to electronically powered games only, or arcade 'video' games, and games with a CRT display. There were plenty of arcade games before 1971, as you can see here. There is even this pinball like game from 350BC that was coin operated and competitive. schnuerle

I'll say. Vintage or pre-electronic coin-op games (pinball, skee-ball etc.) have a long interesting history and are barely mentioned here. Kortoso (talk) 23:16, 17 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

History[edit]

The connection between arcade games and pub game type cue sports, especially bar billiards (still played today) and the now-obsolete bagatelle, the ultimate ancestor of pinball, is not mentioned in this article at all. I.e., it needs to go back further than turn-of-last-century midways. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 22:23, 21 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would love to see this statement elaborated upon, "By the late-1980s, the arcade video game craze was beginning to fade due to the reputation of arcades as being seedy, unsafe places...". What is the reference for this? It is not that I agree or disagree with the statement. It just surprised me. I would like to know more. Myersfa (talk) 19:19, 7 December 2010 (UTC)myersfa[reply]

Request for information: Criticism of the capital nature of arcade games[edit]

Around the time when home consoles were becoming popular, I imagine one of the contributors to the decline of arcade cabinets was the tendency of games to be programmed with a constant need for additional coin input.

In the Gauntlet series, for instance, the games imposed a health countdown that would inevitably kill player characters if additional coins to weren't inserted in order to increase health. Enemy characters and obstacles within the game were consistently balanced so that they players were strongly disadvantaged and would lose health points very quickly. This is evident through various revisions to the Gauntlet and Gauntlet II programs, with each revision causing enemy characters to become more powerful and numerous, and health-increasing items to appear less frequently.

There are a few ways for players to gain the upper-hand, but this typically prompts the game to respond by strengthening enemy A.I. behavior to create an even greater imbalance. For instance, a player can rarely find special potions that increase their character attributes - such as strength or defense - but when a player collects one of these potions, the game places a "thief" enemy somewhere in the level, which would chase down the player (the thief being multitudes faster than characters were permitted to be) and steal the potion.

Another example would be the Gradius series. The object of the game was to fly a ship through various parts of space, shooting down enemies in the ship's path. As the player ship collected power cells, the player could purchase various types of power-ups and weapons that would make it easier (or simply possible) to defeat certain obstacles in the game; however, if the player collects a lot of power-ups, then the game is prompted to place an enemy called an "option-stealer" behind the player ship. This enemy will home-in on the player's ship, grab the ship's power-ups, and then fly off screen with them. The game's levels were designed with a lot of heavy obstacles that are virtually impossible to surmount without these power-ups, and this would of course result in the player being continually defeated if she or he were unlucky enough to encounter this "option-stealer."

These sort of tactics were common with a number of arcade games. With home consoles imposing far less restrictions on how (or how long) a person could play, there probably wasn't much incentive to return to arcades and have your money practically stolen. I think this places some degree of blame on the arcade industry itself, as unscrupulous practices such as artificial game play challenges and rubber-banding difficulty probably created the demand for home consoles in the first place.

I'm probably not able to source this information well enough, so I'm just pitching the idea for anyone who thinks it might be worth including or expanding upon it. 98.86.97.161 (talk) 00:09, 31 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There's no big conspiracy here: arcade games are for making money. They're not posturing as something else. If they could get players to continually pump in coins, they'd be stupid not to take advantage of it. But all the stuff you have above is original research and POV unless, as you say, you can find suitable references. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 02:27, 31 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the way all arcade games work, since long before video arcade games existed. They're there for you to pump money in to. As for video arcade games, most of the 70's ones were time limited with "buying extra time" coming as a feature in the mid 70's. So regardless of WP:OR (which it is) the entire premise of 98.86.97.161 hypothesis is wrong given the actual history. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 02:43, 31 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't arcade mean "minimal realism"?[edit]

Because Ace Combat is described as "arcade" and your aircraft can carry hundreds of missiles. There seems to be a distinction made between "arcade" and "simulation" games as if to say that arcade-style gameplay is not realistic. If anyone can tell me a game described as "arcade" and has realistic physics and gameplay, then I'll believe that "That is subjective and differs from game to game." 67.161.16.188 (talk) 14:21, 16 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Arcade games can often be minimally realistic, but it's not a defining characteristic. If you can find a reliable and verifiable reference that states arcade games must contain minimal realism, but all means change it (as long as you include the ref). — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 01:51, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There's no reference for "frantic, addicting gameplay" either. 67.161.16.188 (talk) 15:36, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I now see that it talks about how "arcade" flight and racing games have simplified physics. 67.161.16.188 (talk) 13:51, 19 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The majority of the sales figures are (very) wrong[edit]

I don't know where to start with these, except to say that just because it was published in a book or a newspaper article doesn't mean it's correct.

For example: Donkey Kong may have sold 65,000 (or more) units in the U.S., but it did not sell even a fraction of that many in Japan, let alone an equal number, regardless of what the citation says. It simply is not true. This has been researched extensively through serial number tracking by members of the International Arcade Museum/KLOV.

The most egregious example is Tron, a game that was produced in huge quantities, listed as having sold 800 units! It's an embarrassment to the article.

My point is that these extremely inaccurate numbers hurt the article. Better sources, such as internal numbers straight from the manufacturers, need to be demanded (such as The Atari Production Numbers Memo). Until then, some sort of disclaimer needs to be put on the "Top Sellers" list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.170.181.57 (talk) 04:40, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, most articles need work, this one included. Feel free to be bold and make the edits you suggested or post the direct references you mention. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 15:19, 27 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Arabian grossed more than Gauntlet II…and this, despite the fact that there were twice as many Gauntlet II units in the world? This list just doesn't jibe with common sense. We should strongly consider removing it. When dealing with numbers, wrong numbers are worse than no numbers. Gmaletic (talk) 20:47, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Pac-man clones?[edit]

I see that there was a removal of MS.Pac-man, which seemed to have been put under pac-man clones, however, Ms.pac-man should not be separated due to being a critical success, being made by an american company, and the fact that Namco ended up buying the rights for it.

As for Pac-man, I believe certain other special cabinent versions are included. So why would we not add Asteroids Deluxe numbers to the asteroids total?

I also would like to point out the values are not in order from greatest to least. In fact, some there are some titles that have no arcade cabinets sold at all, and are only on the list by revenue. Which does not make any sense, because that would not apply to "best selling" in terms of the actual units itself. Look at Starhorse for example.

I also see double standards of combining like games and not combining like games. Why do we have 3 versions of Street Fighter put together? Chan-Murphy (talk) 01:45, 15 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal[edit]

I propose that Arcade game be merged into Amusement arcade. Reason: multiple cases of redundant information. Kortoso (talk) 23:39, 17 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly some of the game history information should be merged over here, but merging this over to there doesn't make sense. 1) "amusement arcade" is not a common term, arcade game is. 2) Amusement Arcade is supposed to be about in arcades in general. Arcade Game is supposed to be about the games that are in arcades as well as the genre. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 02:24, 18 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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billions and millions of $[edit]

About the table in the section List of highest-grossing games: Because of some reason that I don't understand, when sorting the column "estimated cross value (US$ without inflation", it will separate billions from millions, but not if you sort by "estimated cross value (US$ with 2016 inflation)". --MrBurns (talk) 08:02, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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External links modified[edit]

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External links modified[edit]

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Copied a sentence[edit]

2600:1700:1100:BDC0:5898:759:9A2C:5592 (talk) 03:39, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]


deleting and errors[edit]

Hi Maestro2016! In your recent edits, you've deleted a lot of referenced material and I don't understand why. In particular, your edits have leave other material unreferenced -- now the article shows six or seven "reference undefined" errors. The easiest way to fix these is to revert your edits, but before doing so I wanted to know why you were removing the material;, and if you had a plan to address the referencing errors you've create on your own. -- Mikeblas (talk) 18:49, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Thanks for letting me know. For some reason, the citation errors weren't showing up for me yesterday, but showed up today. Anyway, I've now fixed the citation errors. I cut down the list because it was too long, with 120 games on the list. In contrast, List of best-selling video games only has 50 games on the list. The previous threshold, 1K units and $1M gross was way too low. 10K units and $10M gross is a more sensible threshold. Maestro2016 (talk) 19:04, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the explanation! Looks like the errors are gone now. -- Mikeblas (talk) 19:06, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sega Rally[edit]

Should it be added? It sold 12,000

https://web.archive.org/web/20080209101935/www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17294

 Done. Maestro2016 (talk) 09:32, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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