Talk:Arsinoe IV

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No title[edit]

I'm going to give the article a rewrite. It's rather confusing, doesn't have any sources cited & some of its information directly contradicts some sources I have. For instance, the portions of the Egyptian empire she's cited as ruling weren't even Egyptian possessions anymore; certainly by the time Pompey concluded his campaigns in the East it had all been annexed by Rome. (Of course Mark Antony subsequently attempted to cede it back to Cleopatra after Arsinoë's death.) And Macedonia was never an Egyptian province & by Arsinoe's time had been a Roman province for over a century. Binabik80 16:18, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Eveytime I do a search on Arsinoe I find this same information repeated, it gets Boring. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.131.23.208 (talk) 10:45, 28 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tomb at Ephesus[edit]

Some interesting sources have been added about her possible tomb. I'm puzzled by one sentence though: If the body in the tomb is Arsinoë, then she was born between 59 BC and 56 BC...... I don't understand how the discovery of her skeleton tells us when she was born? Surely only the age of death? --Michael C. Price ^talk 19:40, 30 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Michael, it is, of course, impossible to establish a date of birth simply from a skeleton. However, the date of Arsinoë's death is known (41 BC). The approximate age of the skeleton at death is known (15-18). Therefore, if the skeleton is that of Arsinoë, it is possible to work back 15-18 years from 41 BC to get a date of birth of 59-56 BC. Of course, this is true if and only if the skeleton is that of Arsinoë. If it isn't - and the fact that this date of birth does not match what is usually deduced from the historical evidence must raise questions - then the skeleton's date of birth is impossible to establish.Tony Keen2 (talk) 11:59, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I wish it would be acknowledged that the Skeleton's age was originally estimated to be in it's 20s, but they reexamined it or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.131.23.208 (talk) 13:43, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If her death is dated with certainly it does indeed follow. I thought I read somewhere that we weren't sure of her death date (although I admit this does seem a rather puzzling claim -- I must have misread something). I've removed the ^{[citation needed]} tag. --Michael C. Price ^talk 13:32, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On whether Arsinoë was a figurehead, it's a possibility. But whilst the sources do say that her brother Ptolemy was a figurehead for the decisions of his advisors, on account of his age, they don't say that about Arsinoë (indeed, if she was a pre-teen female figurehead, one wonders why she would be mentioned as taking part in decisions at all). The only reason for believing she was a young figurehead is the identification of the body in the tomb with Arsinoë, which has not been conclusively established by other means.Tony Keen2 (talk) 13:13, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

She was spared because she was a little girl??[edit]

The following needs to be edited:

having not intended to spare her, and the people acting only on sentiment, indicates that she was then probably no more than a little girl

No where is it said that she was spared because she was "no more then a little girl". She was spared because the people saw her as a queen now in chains, released under consideration for her brothers (Dio Cassius). The role she played in having Achillas killed and taking control of the armed forces during the Alexandrian Wars indicates again she was older, probably between 16-18 yrs old, not a "little girl". Also in describing her Aulus Hirtius (Caesar's Commentaries) clearly uses the term woman in a derogatory way indicating she was older. Dio Cassius also calls her as a "woman"(gynh) during Caesar's parade, indicating again she was older:

The lictors, on account of their numbers, appeared to them a most outrageous multitude, since never before had they beheld so many at one time: and the sight of Arsinoe, a woman and once called a queen in chains, a spectacle which had never yet been offered in Rome at least, aroused very great pity, and in consequence on this excuse they incidentally lamented their personal misfortunes. She. to be sure, was released out of consideration of her brothers, but other including Vercingetorix were put to death. ~ Dio Cassius [1]

To dismiss their king and suffer him to rejoin his subjects; that the people, weary of subjection to a woman, of living under a precarious government, and submitting to the cruel laws of the tyrant Ganymed, were ready to execute the orders of the king: and if by his sanction they should embrace the alliance and protection of Caesar, the multitude would not be deterred from surrendering by the fear of danger. ~ Aulus Hirtius [2] (Angar432 (talk) 19:50, 21 April 2011 (UTC)).[reply]

Error[edit]

"betw. 68 and 56 BC". My guess is that it is a type error, it should be 65 BC, not 56 --Finn Bjørklid (talk) 00:22, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Identity confirmed?[edit]

According to a recent BBC4 Documentary called "Cleopatra: Portrait of a Killer", experts are now convinced the body in the tomb at Ephesus is indeed Princess Arsinoe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.178.218.149 (talk) 21:11, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Whoever's responsible for citing this BBC documentary as a source about a half-dozen times in the article must realize it has NO documentary value. Primary sources—Caesar, Dio, Appian, et al.—are needed in support of all significant claims about Arsinoe's life.Prohairesius (talk) 13:16, 26 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Missing title of Book of Stacy Schiff[edit]

The title of the book of Stacy Schiff, that is used in the reference with the number 22, should be added, because it is missing. - Kind regards Oskar71 (talk) 14:46, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Berenice III of Egypt which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 19:32, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]