Talk:Racism in Japan

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 10 January 2022 and 30 April 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Anna204 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Vrba223, Ashleystump, JQHazey, Willa39.

— Assignment last updated by Dslaym (talk) 13:56, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]


More statistics are needed on discrimination to back this up[edit]

I can't deny that ethnic issues are indeed a problem with Japan, but I seems that compared with previous versions of this page over the years that this article paints a one dimensional view of the matter without properly explaining through statistics on the extent of the problem. I do think that times have been worse as even Debito made an article that things have been getting better. However the way this page is edited seems to come off that the ethnic issue has gotten worse. For example while there are alot of businesses that to have signs showing refusal of service to foreigners there's no statics on the extent of this and the only citation is a list of signs off Debitos website which isn't a complete list. I can't deny that racism is a problem, but this article could use a rewrite in the discrimination section. Like South Korea which also has ethnic issues towards foreigners, the treatment in these two countries has become more open. https://shingetsunewsagency.com/2024/01/23/visible-minorities-positive-steps-for-non-japanese/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Undeadmerc3 (talk • contribs) 00:09, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 September 2020 and 14 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ninajack021.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 07:43, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Xenophobia in younger demographics[edit]

for some reason in japan, schools and other organizations have a rather, to put it bluntly idiotic amount of racism this includes actual gangbeating. intimidation, and most importantly they tend to follow you all over the place, just waiting, it's real paranoia fuel and i would like this to be put in (Undeadplatypus (talk) 18:09, 16 April 2012 (UTC))[reply]

  • yes thats a real story from me and im sure this isnt unique (Undeadplatypus (talk) 18:09, 16 April 2012 (UTC))[reply]
yes there seems to be a systemic indoctrination of the younger generation in racist ideologies. I think this is important information which needs to be included in the article — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.10.111.130 (talk) 01:24, 5 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

requesting change to the few opening paragraphs[edit]

The first opening paragraphs sound like they exaggerate the racial issues in Japan by using the term "often." I know that there are some serious issues in Japan, but by saying "often" it sound like it's claiming that most Japanese people are like this. For this reason I would like to discuss the right to remove it in time or at least replace it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Graylandertagger (talk • contribs) 20:49, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It'd be much more helpful if you proposed here something you thought was better. CüRlyTüRkeyTalkContribs 23:24, 11 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Get real. Japan has NEVER dealt with this issue. Nor has it dealt honestly with the war crimes it committed during World War II. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.151.233 (talk) 05:31, 6 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Do you like this one, or this] one better? Discuss-Dubious (t/c) 00:46, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

RfC[edit]

Light bulb iconBAn RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 16:41, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Disingenuous title[edit]

According to WP:COMMONAME, shouldn't this article be titled Racism in Japan instead of Ethnic issues in Japan? Google Books finds 2,010 ghits for "racism in Japan" and 94 for "ethnic issues in Japan". Wikipedia contains dozens of "racism in" titles like Racism in Argentina, Racism in Asia (including Japan and 17 other countries), Racism in Australia, etc.—but only two other "ethnic issues in" of Ethnic issues in China (originally Racism in the People's Republic of China) and Ethnic issues in the Philippines. Keahapana (talk) 02:32, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Human = Race, Mongoloid = Cline, Chinese/Korean/Japanese = Ethnicity. If bigots are making their decisions based on nationality/ethnicity, it would NOT be accurate to call it racism. 204.12.94.172 (talk) 20:14, 27 December 2013 (UTC) Wook[reply]

In social psychology, "Race" and "Ethnicity", are separate but overlapping stable latent psychological constructs. "ethnicity" and "ethnic identity" are more useful than "race" and "racial identity" used to describe acculturation and aspects of personal identity at the majority group (host culture) and sub-group(s)(minority group(s)) level relative to the geopolitical region. Therefor this Wikipedia article is one example of scholarly research related to ethnicity, acculturation, and sociocultural sub-groups in a particular geopolitical region being Japan. Dr.khatmando (talk) 04:46, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Therefore the title is appropriate Dr.khatmando (talk) 04:46, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No this feels like a whitewash to me and it does not reflect the article. Xanikk999 (talk)

Post-war xenophobia in Japan[edit]

As a foreign resident of Japan, I feel that there needs to be a new section entitled "post-war xenophobia in Japan". If we are deeply honest with ourselves, Japan is simply not a modern nation when it comes to how foreigners are treated. No laws against racial discrimination exist. There are public protests against Koreans and Chinese, the schools teach select views of history and there are many places foreigners simply aren't allowed to go.

What would we call this in America or Europe? The answer isn't flattering in my opinion. I'm sort of wondering why any edits regarding the racism and xenophobia in modern Japan are almost instantly deleted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.114.238.214 (talk) 11:51, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If I were you, I'd find something to cite. If someone reverts something that's cited and well-sourced, they can be reported as per WP:NPOV. I'll look for a few sources. ミーラー強斗武 (talk) 20:53, 16 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Long belief"[edit]

First paragraph, "Culture in Japan has a long belief of xenophobia and jingoism towards foreign cultures." What is a "long belief"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.49.249.237 (talk) 06:34, 3 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Probably should be: "a long history of belief". Discuss-Dubious (t/c) 01:02, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This part is in itself jingoistic...[edit]

Culture in Japan has a long belief of xenophobia and jingoism towards foreign cultures.[citation needed]

Not only is this highly offensive and racist (as it lumps every Japanese individual into the same group), it is also not something that can be put in an encyclopedia as it is merely someone's opinion, not factual, and not cited. Therefore, I have removed it. ChemicalG (talk) 06:02, 17 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Also, this part: "Japan is facing cultural conflicts between ethnic minorities (including immigrants)[citation needed] and the resident Yamato Japanese.) "

Is not backed up by fact, and also merely expresses the opinion of someone. It's too general to be included, therefore I have removed this too.

NPOV issue...[edit]

" Another issue of racism in Japan is the idea of ethnic purity as 98.5% of Japan is the Yamato ethnic group. [1] "

References

  1. ^ CIA World Factbook Retrieved on 11 June 2012.

How is this an "issue of racism"?

I've therefore changed it to be more inline with NPOV policies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChemicalG (talk • contribs) 06:53, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@ChemicalG: It's an issue because the Japanese census doesn't take ethnicity into account, only nationality. It may be true that 98.5% of people living in Japan are Japanese citizens, but the Ryukyuan people, Ainu people, Chinese people, and Korean people certainly are not Yamato people. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 15:12, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Hello Sturmgewehr88,

Thanks for your response. In that case, we should not phrase it as: "Another issue of racism in Japan is the idea of ethnic purity as 98.5% of Japan is the Yamato ethnic group.", because this is an unfairly loaded statement, and violates NPOV. The cited reference merely goes to the CIA's "factbook" page, there is nothing here that proves "racism", and therefore this word should be removed. If you want to mention the issues with the census, then you should create a properly cited, fact based NPOV section. ChemicalG (talk) 00:57, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@ChemicalG: Well at least you reworded that sentence more appropriately. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 02:29, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Sturmgewehr88 - no worries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChemicalG (talk • contribs) 03:32, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, so here's my two cents:
  1. This not an NPOV issue, but a sourcing issue. If it were an NPOV issue, then no matter what the source said, our wording itself would have been the problem.
  2. The original wording was an explicit abuse of the source, since the claim was about discrimination but the cited source made no reference whatsoever to discrimination.
  3. The cited source also was not about ethnic issues; the CIA World Factbook has a set format listing "ethnic groups", but in Japan's case (where the census doesn't collect data on ethnic/racial background) subs nationality in instead. Proof of this can be seen in their citing "Chinese" as an ethnic group on the Japan page, but on the China page actual ethnicities are listed. They even went out of their way to cite what ethnic data they could -- that a large proportion of the Brazilian population were ethnic Japanese. That's also why the source didn't refer to "Yamato Japanese".
  4. The source cited is actually not the CIA World Factbook but a mirror site that claims its information to be "accurate as of August 23, 2014", but it's pretty obvious that this doesn't mean it is "accurate to the real world as of August 23, 2014" but rather that it is an "accurate representation of the CIA World Factbook as of August 23, 2014". This is problematic when the Factbook itself is not necessarily up-to-date (the only date given in the cited statistics is 2004, and I think it's safe to assume that, for example, a more up-to-date figure for the contraceptive prevalence rate can be found than the 2005 figure of 54.3%).
  5. For this reason and the above point (3) that for unavoidable formatting reasons the Factbook gives misleading information about the ethnic situation in Japan, I don't think the Factbook should be cited in this article.
  6. The current wording is still problematic, since, even though it does not directly make the same unsourced claim, the citing (without specific explanation) of census data on nationality in an article on ethnic issues is misleading and problematic.
  7. The sentence as originally worded made a(n unsubstantiated) claim that non-Japanese face discrimination and used percentages to back this up; deleting the claim about discrimination but keeping the percentages is pointless. Remove the sentence entirely, and reinsert it if someone can find a valid source making the original connection between the relative ethnic homogeneity of Japan and discrimination.
Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:31, 26 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
On second thought, it's not really a good idea to remove the sentence, given what's written before it. But I'm actually not sure about what's written before it -- where in the Washington Post article does that claim appear? Or is it in the embedded YouTube video? (I watched the video about a year ago; not too interested in revisiting it.) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:48, 26 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Much better wording than I came up with about this. Do you know of any sources about this? I think I have one but I'll have to go dig it up later, and it probably only deals with Ryukyuans. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 19:47, 26 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@User:Sturmgewehr88: This isn't my area of expertise, but I found this method is usually pretty effective. My phone's running out of battery and it's not good at checking PDFs to begin with, though. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:42, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Title is not NPOV[edit]

The title is a whitewash for what actually is racism and ethnic discrimination. I think it should be reworded to Racism in Japan to go along the lines of other articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Xanikk999 (talk • contribs) 23:15, 18 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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article needs attention from an expert[edit]

im afraid that this article is in urgent need of attention from an expert, really. it has multiple issues which cannot be dealt easily. Фквжьись (talk) 23:05, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Фквжьись: issues such as..? ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 23:56, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, please be more specific or they cannot be "dealt easily", as you say. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:05, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's good to see some rigorous discussion about this article. You can see my response in regards to the title of the article here [[1]]

I also note the concerns and issues raised in other discussions. I can assist with improving the article at the end of this month. (I have a book chapter project for T&F to finish first). Dr.khatmando (talk) 04:58, 9 April 2017 (UTC) Dr.khatmando (talk) 04:58, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Ariana Miyamoto[edit]

in the links section, the comment to the Wiki article on Miyamoto currently says 'controversial Miss Universe' - exactly why is she deemed to be controversial? I went over to the linked article and still don't really get it... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.228.82.187 (talk) 22:42, 11 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Ainu people[edit]

What's the point of having a section for Ainu people without mentioning any ethnic issues? --Kaledomo (talk) 14:45, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I expanded the Ainu section to include their general history, but it still needs major additions. I did highlight the suppression of their culture and their recent recognition in 2008 by the Japanese government. — Coastaline (talk) 20:02, 14 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 19 March 2021[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jack Frost (talk) 14:07, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Ethnic issues in Japan → Racism in Japan – This is one of only three Wikipedia articles in existence that uses the form "ethnic issues in Foo" instead of common "racism in Foo". We don't even have a redirect for ethnic issues, nor a Category:Ethnic issues (although there is the unique Category:Ethnic issues in Japan - the only ethnic issues category on Wikipedia...). This is just an outlier in the Category:Racism by country. "Ethnic issues" is just a weaseling synonym for racism ("this country doesn't have racism problems, unlike rest of the world, we just have, errrr, some ethnic issues. Move on, nothing serious to see here."). See the wider context at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Discrimination#"Ethnic_issues_in"_vs_"Racism_in"_problem. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:17, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support for consistency. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:10, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - "issues" is vague expression, which is, to be blunt, probably used to avoid unpleasant gravity and association that word "racism" carries.--౪ Santa ౪99° 19:17, 19 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per all reasons given above. This could honestly be speedied by an admin.★Trekker (talk) 17:41, 20 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for consistency. CutePeach (talk) 16:11, 21 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per OP and for consistency. Gnominite (talk) 19:14, 21 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 06:23, 23 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I've moved the page to Race and ethnicity in Japan to avoid WP:ASTONISHing readers wondering why racism isn't mentioned anywhere in the lead, only being substantively treated in one of the last sections. See also: All pages with titles beginning with Race and ethnicity. --Sangdeboeuf (talk) 01:05, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The article may need rewriting, and some content may not be relevant here. But the main topic should racism. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:12, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What's up with the lead?[edit]

Why does the lead look like it was written for a completely different article? The lead does not encapsulate what the article says, and indeed does not mention racism in Japan today at all, although the article does so in detail. The lead should be rewritten in accordance with MOS:LEAD. (I am not very confident about doing it myself, because I am not very knowledgeable about this and editing this article needs more sensitivity than cursorily glancing at sources. However it is very obvious that the lead does not mention even a third of the things it should.) W. Tell DCCXLVI t | c 12:13, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

By all means, WP:BEBOLD and try your hand at it. You are right it's hard to make it worse... Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:16, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Request for better citation[edit]

On the section of "Access to housing and other services", some editor use soranews24 and a twitter post(which I already removed) to cite the incidet about Japanese establishments refuse to serve foreigners. I tend to believe it's actually happen and true. However, maybe I am being uninformed, I dont think soranews24 is really a reliable news source as I barely find anyway about them and there website give me a vibe of old blog site in the 2000s....Therefore I request for better citation — Preceding unsigned comment added by Someone97816 (talk • contribs) 04:49, 7 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

New article needs expert eyes: Japanese privilege[edit]

Please take a look at Japanese privilege to see whether it can be improved at all, or whether it should be merged into this article. Binksternet (talk) 00:14, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Binksternet I'd recommend a WP:AFD to get more comments. The term is used in a few works but it not very common, and my quick BEFORE is not giving a good case for why this should be a stand-alone article, plus WP:TNT comes to fore, since the article uses this term just in the lead (uncited defininition) and then meanders about various racism- and discrimination- related issues; heck, most of the article is about 'outside Japan' topics; the section on South Africa is totally irrelevant, and then most of the article is about... Korea? Korean privilige? This is indeed very bad. Please AFD this and ping me if you'd be so kind so I can copy my rationale over there. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 05:58, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like you understand. You can add your thoughts here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Japanese privilege. Thanks in advance, Piotrus. Binksternet (talk) 06:11, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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