Talk:SNAFU

Pronunciation?

Could someone add the pronunciation(s) for this entry? Is it read out as separate letters ("es-en-ay-ef-ew"), or as a single word? In the latter case, what does it sound like: "ZNAH-foo", "ZNAY-foo", "zna-FEW", ...? --5.23.32.98 (talk) 10:45, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

It is pronounced as one word and sounds like "Snah-FOO". 2.28.151.187 (talk) 03:43, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

How explicit should the article be?

Before complaining about article content, please read: Wikipedia is not censored.

I mentioned "fuck" explicitly because that's what it actually stands for, by all accounts. We shouldn't dance round the word, if its use is justified in making a point in an article, and that's the case here. See Wikipedia policy/Foul Language — Robert Merkel (pre-November 2001)

Robert - we can make the identical point without being explicit. I don't see the need to use the word. I personally am in favour of keeping the 'pedia as clean as possible. — MMGB (pre-November 2001)

But isn't it more important for an encyclopedia to provide full and accurate information rather than to just "make the right point" with deliberately incomplete and obscured data? The term FUBAR doesn't mean "fouled up", it means "fucked up". The fact that it's often bowdlerized is also useful to know, but I think that kind of thing is only a secondary piece of information. — BD (pre-November 2001)

Firstly, I think we are all agreed that "fucked up" is what the original saying was, and "fouled up" was a euphemism for describing the acronym to generals and women (no sexism intended, but I gather that was the way things were in the 40's)?
If so, according to the way I read the policy page, explicitness is called for here. The expression was "fucked" so in the interests of accuracy we should use "fucked" in the article. "Fouled" is *not* making an identical point, nor are the allusions. As AxelBoldt and others have pointed out, many people, particularly non-native speakers, may not recognise the allusions. If you disagree with the foul language policy, I suggest we take the debate there. If you disagree with the way I'm interpreting or applying it, by all means continue the discussion here. At this point, I'm going to restore the older version. — Robert Merkel (pre-November 2001)

You know, as many of my friends can testify, I have been known to talk like a truckdriver more often than not (years of restaurant work). THat said, I still find it unnecessary to ALWAYS use my favorite vulgarities. I think the point is well taken that "fouled" is an incorrect substitute. COuldn't we say that, then perhaps use "effed up"? I'm pretty sure EVERY reader of the Wikipedia would know what was meant -- every English-speaking European thinks it's normal conversational language, thanks to Hollywood! — JHK (pre-November 2001)

JHK: But its not "effed", its "fucked". I say we should say things like they are, and not make attempts to hide the truth merely for the sake of arbitrary societal conventions of 'politeness' or the squeamishness of some. — SJK (pre-November 2001)

If we use language that, for example, describes torture, should we then show pictures? My point is that it can be made amply clear without going there -- or at least write in a way that seems less like someone is enjoying seeing "fucked" in print just to do it, under the guise of truthfulness. — JHK (pre-November 2001)

I don't think the two are comparable. Negative reactions to the word 'fuck' are just social conditioning; there is nothing inevitably abhorrent about the sight of that combination of letters, or the hearing of the associated sounds. On the other hand, visions or sounds of torture are abhorent at a much deeper level. The abhorrence of images of torture is innate and universal, not the result of being conditioned by a particular society at a particular time. — SJK 02:24, 7 November 2001 (UTC)

Additionally, if showing pictures of torture significantly added to the informational content of the article, I would advocate their inclusion (though perhaps on a subpage where the squeamish weren't forced to read them as part of the article). To take a specific example for the future, if Wikipedia gets to the point where audio recordings are made available from it, there are audio tapes of executions that were played on NPR last year. Some segments of them might be *highly* relevant and informative on the death penalty page.
Finally, could somebody please explain to me why people are so insistent on jumping through hoops to avoid the use of the word where its use for purposes of accuracy is so justified. It's just a word describing (if with a lack of poetry) a usually highly pleasurable act performed by billions of people around the world every single day. —Robert Merkel 10:11, 31 March 2002 (UTC)

That word can also describe (and more often) rape, assault, sodomy, etc. Just because you have such a shrugging attitude towards sex doesn't mean everybody does. — 142.161.207.199 19:50, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

What does fucked up have to do with rape, assault and stuff like that? It only means that stuff are realy messed up. So using the word fucked up in this article is not wrong at all, and it is better than giving false information or edited information to avoid using certain words. — Dr.Aasen 11:02, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

"FUCK" has a very diverse use. Non-natives catch it up easily enough. The link to "fuck" does help, somewhat. -- Jefferton alive! 02:34, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Let's be real for a second. The F in SNAFU stands for "fucked" like it or not. This has nothing to do with a shrugging attitude towards sex. Let's also not get all excited and compare the word "fuck" to people getting tortured. Isn't lieing also bad? So then why do you want to lie and say that the "F" stands for "fouled?" You're revising history to suit your social paradigm and I'm ver much against that. My 2 cents anyway —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.178.206.66 (talk) 06:48, 4 May 2007

Well, I just thought I'd add my two cents to this discussion. Every person I've known has used 'fucked', not 'fouled', for the F in SNAFU. I can't see why a non censored place like Wikipedia would avoid the word 'fucked'. I mean, as far as I can imagine, every native english speaker will hear the word 'fucked' pronounced some day. Most hear it pretty early in their lives. Practically everybody knows it exists. And we are not using it as an expletive in this article. We're not writing "the fucking Soviets/Americans/Germans/whoever" in an article about WWII, we're saying that 'SNAFU = Situation Normal: All Fucked Up'. To use the analogy with torture: should the torture article state that "To torture someone is to be really really bad to that person, and it shouldn't be done"? For me, the answer is easy, both in the torture case and in the 'fucked/fouled' case. 85.224.199.36 14:33, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

The moment I visited this article I immediately went to the discussion page after seeing that it was censored and I wasn't surprised at all that this issue is already being addressed. Just as the link at the top of this section states, Wikipedia is not censored. I agree completely with SJK and it appears that this entire argument is the result of those same squeamish people pushing for censorship. In fact, the article that linked me to this page (Mail Call) uses the uncensored "version" of the acronym so the main article should definitely not be censored. Rajrajmarley (talk) 22:06, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

After looking more closely at the related censor policies of Wikipedia (Wikipedia:Profanity especially) I can't say that there are any legitimate arguments presented here against against including the full and true meaning of the acronym SNAFU (which is Situation Normal: All Fucked Up). The following is a direct quote from the Wikipedia profanity page:

Words and images that would be considered offensive, profane, or obscene by typical Wikipedia readers should be used if they are informative, relevant and accurate, and should be avoided when they serve no other purpose than to shock the reader. Including information about offensive material is part of Wikipedia's encyclopedic mission; being offensive is not.

Every argument on this page against putting the full and true definition of the acronym is not supported by this, or any other Wikipedia policy and should be therefore considered illegal. If a legitimate reason for not including the full definition of the acronym in the article within 24 hours I will edit the article to include it. Rajrajmarley (talk) 07:37, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Technically, "fouled" is incorrect: something which is fouled has jammed because something else has temporarily attached itself to the normal mechanism in such a way as to block its working. Typically, a twist in a sheet (OK, landlubbers, rope) stopping it running through the block on a sailing ship, or seaweed blocking a boats's propellor, or something of the like. "Fucked" usually means it's broken, irrepairable, uncorrectable and generally no longer fit for purpose. The saying referes to the second, not the first, and I never ever heard any Army man pussy-foot around like the euphemisists here are yet again trying to do. If you don't like it, foul off.

This discussion should not even exist. The term stands for "Situation Normal, All Fucked Up" and that is what must appear on the page. It does not matter what anyone thinks of the word, it is simply what we all know it stands for, not 'Messed' up! Putting anything else in is a deliberate lie. Secondly, to put a word with an M in there when the acronym requires an F is beyond stupid.

I personally think that “fuck” and “foul” should be swapped so it says “all fouled up (also known as all fucked up)”. I read it, i thought it was vandalism.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Since 10.28.2010 (talk • contribs)

Soldiers don't talk that way; soldiers say "fuck". --Diannaa (talk) 03:21, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Random comments from Esseh

Just FYI (is that in there? How about FYFI - you guess...), this is a great article. I just added a couple I've heard, and widened the attribution to include other armies. Oh, and on the bowderlized/real discussion, phoque is a legitimate French word, meaning "seal" (as in harbour _, fur _, baby _, etc). Just makes me wonder what the American military would do with that when referring to the Navy Seals? Some phood for phoquing thought ;) Esseh 03:53, 27 April 2007 (UTC) (Oh, and I haven't checked the site on [fuck] yet, but I remember learning that it, too, is an acronym: For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge - posted on adulterers when pilloried!) Esseh 03:53, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

• As an aside, the Navy Seals are well aware of the word phoque and use it often. Richard Marcinko, who formed SEAL Team SIX mentions phoque quite often in his book about his life and formation of Seal Team Six. He clearly uses it as an way to say fuck, which he also uses often, but he enjoys the idea of the Navy Seals "phoque'ing" with their enemies. Fanra 10:06, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Article problems

As I see it, SNAFU has some problems, which is why I've added some tags (permalink). To identify the problems, it's easiest to point to existing guidelines:

1. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Our mission.
2. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Just listing information because it's information will lead to an incoherent mess, so we don't do that.
3. Wikipedia is not a dictionary, or a slang, jargon, or usage guide.
4. Material has to be verifiable using reliable sources. Something someone read on the Internet or heard in a bar is not considered reliable.
5. Material has to be notable. If six Army squad-mates made up a new acronym one day, that still doesn't belong here, no matter how clever or funny it is.
6. Original research is not acceptable here. This is a fancy way of saying we're supposed to deal in hard facts, not suppositions, guess work, and opinion. It's not enough for me to say, "I think such-and-such is the answer"; there have to be reliable sources saying that's the answer.
7. When multiple subjects could reasonably have the same title, we disambiguate them. For example, there is a a Roman god Mercury, a planet Mercury, and an element Mercury. So we disambiguate their pages to Mercury (mythology), Mercury (planet), and Mercury (element). At Mercury we place a disambiguation page ("dab page"), which functions as a signpost to the proper articles.

This page is currently drifting away from all of the above goals. It is, in large part, a list of slang (see #2 and #3 above). Nothing like a reliable source is cited for anything other than "SNAFU" itself (#3 above). While some funny acronym variants may have occasional usage, that doesn't make them notable (#5 and #6). Finally, this article list a number of slang entries which have nothing to do with SNAFU (#2), and several things which are not this SNAFU but some other SNAFU, and this should be in their own articles and on the Snafu page (#7).

I propose to start culling things down. Remove the uncited list-cruft. Move the not-SNAFU stuff to Snafu, or delete it if it fails other guidelines. If, when we're done, all that is left is a dictionary definition, move it into one of the existing articles on slang, and turn this into a redirect.

Comments?

—DragonHawk (talk|hist) 22:30, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Go DragonHawk. I completely support your efforts. I would suggest removing all acronyms not found in a standard dictionary (e.g. Dictionary.com). Madman 00:37, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I have gone ahead and removed the disambiguation and the list of similar acronyms, leaving this focused on the actual word SNAFU. The list of similar words is next, once I figure out where to put it. Madman 12:04, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. A good place for the similar words might be as a section in Military humor or Military slang or one of its associated See Also pages. Saayiit (talk) 07:49, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Private Snafu

I agree that some things should not be on this page. However, I added Private Snafu to it. I think that it should be here with a link to the Private Snafu page. It clearly (to me) is a important part of the SNAFU story, that an acronym, especially one that is considered 'dirty', becomes so famous that it is used during the same war that 'invented' the term as a name for a cartoon character, and even more important, one that is used to teach the very soldiers who invented the acronym. Fanra 09:59, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but that is already a separate article -- this article is about the common word "snafu". Thanks, Madman 13:04, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

You have pretty much dismissed my point without even giving any kind of reason. Of course this article is about the word "SNAFU" but that doesn't prevent us from listing the usages of the word. Indeed, that is the whole idea of having an article, to tell people not only about the word but its use in culture and other things about it. If you go read just about any article here on wikipedia, many of them are about one subject and yet contain references to other things about the subject and links to other articles that are related. In fact, I used the {{ catmore1|[[category|text]] }} template which is designed just for this kind of thing. You attempts to keep the article "clean" are to be admired but an article with no information about the subject other than an extremely narrow description without any references to the subject as it relates to the real world is not informative and is not "encyclopedic". Fanra 23:26, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be dismissive - I was just in a hurry. The reason I was dismissive is that there is already a very nice article on Private Snafu. We can add information on the word "snafu" and how it is used, but two paragraphs on Private Snafu was pretty much equal to the information on the word itself. I did add a See also link at the bottom to the article. Madman 00:09, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the recent edits which added the info on Private Snafu were overly verbose. In an article about the acronym, two paragraphs on something that was just named after the acronym is not appropriate. The "See also" link, I suspect, is the right thing. —DragonHawk (talk|hist) 03:45, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Fanra in that this article is likely to be too short even when fully fleshed out. I suspect it will never be much more than a dictionary definition, and Wikipedia is not a dictionary. The proper solution in that case is not to fill the article with inappropriate material, but to move the content about snafu into a larger article on (perhaps one on Army slang?) and turn this page into a redirect. It remains to be seen if that is to be the eventual fate of SNAFU or not. —DragonHawk (talk|hist) 03:45, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Origin?

According to one source, the origin of the term SNAFU comes from two American soldiers of the 160th Infantry Regiment of the 40th Infantry Division at Camp San Luis Obispo, California. Don Taylor and John Paup were in Radio Network Training sending practice radio messages to each other.[1] The messages were encrypted with the Converter M-209 device. Converter M-209 is a small, compact, hand-operated, tape-printing, mechanical device designed to encrypt messages.[2]

According to the story, in April or May of 1941 at the end of a day spent transmitting and receiving test messages, Taylor and Paup would make a game of creating sentences out of the coded letters they had sent.

• CSIAM.... = (Colonel Smith is a moron)
• OTILA.... = (Our tent is leaking again)
• IHTDA.... = (I hate the damn army)
• SNAFU.... = (Situation normal, all fucked up)[3]

Apparently, SNAFU was so catchy that they repeated it to others and it spread throughout the military.

The main problem with this story is that it is impossible to verify.

So does should this be added into the article exactly as above or it is not verified enough? Fanra 09:25, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

There are perhaps hundreds of origin stories, and this is just one of them. In fact, the word "snafu" was cited in a journal in September 1941, so this idea that the word was first created in the spring of 1941 story is very unlikely. Thanks, Madman 13:05, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

==Addition to preceding entry: Here's the link to the story above, purportedly by the son of the originator of the expression

http://www.pahrahdiseonline.com/SNAFU.htm

Evidently this happened in the Spring of 1941. Catwoman07076 (talk) 22:32, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Nother Idea to Check Out

In Austria the word ""Schmafu" for nonsense and/or a clusterf*** has existed for quite a while and seems to be documented at least back to the mid-19th Century. According to the German Wiktionary, its origin is apparently from the French "je m'en fou". Austrian German appropriated quite a lot of French words partly because French was spoken by the high nobility and also due to the occupation by the Napoleonic forces in the early 19th century (Congress of Vienna etc.) It might be worth checking out whether the word was ever current among Central European migrants to the US. See http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Schmafu 83.65.178.206 (talk) 10:42, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Usage of FUBAR etc.

A question for the American and and English soldiers of World War II: did you ever hear one of the following words really being pronounced?

FUBB FUMTU JANFU TARFU

I am asking, because it seems to me highly unlikely that such artificial acronyms could be used regularly in an army. Only fubar seems to be reasonable to me, since it was used in Saving Private Ryan in a credible manner, and it may originate from Yiddish orGerman itself.--Pjotr Morgen 23:34, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

FUBAR is ubiquitous in hacker/geek culture, as well - and that consists almost entirely of written text. I live on the wrong continent to answer the main question, though. --Kizor 07:40, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I was a member of a British Reserve Engineer (Royal Monmouthshire RE Sqn HQ) unit in the 1970s, they certainly used a sliding scale which dated back maybe ten years (from the state of the wood it was painted on) running from SNAFU through FUMTU to FUBAR. I couldn't in fact remember the intermediate point, but you're right, FUMTU it indeed was. That takes you most of the way back, and yes, it was routinely used, and yes, as it covered most of the likely ground, not unusually.

As far as "fouled" is concerned, it's wrong on two counts: it refers to a line jamming, often either in a pulley or around a propellor, and it can be undone. The quintessence of Fucked is that it cannot be returned to its pristine, virginal original state however much you play with it.

SNAFU Song (lyrics?)

I was watching a DVD on D-DAY and various WWII films, and then I discovered this one humorously composed song (with video) that had women basically singing (paraphrased) "Oh, I wonder what SNAFU means? Could you tell me? Is it something you wear?" etc, with women acting all innocent. I'm not sure, but I thought it had Martha Raye, but I wouldn't be able to recognize her unless you found me a picture. Is this SNAFU Jump? My research has been very limited with regards to SNAFU Jump. Could the song with Martha Raye be a third song about SNAFU?

Fortunately, I may still have limited access to this DVD, so maybe I can find out more about the song next week.

Root⁴(one) 16:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

BTW, this (Words in -FU) and/or this (Show Music on Record: From the 1890s to the 1980s) may be proof of what I'm looking for, but unfortunately, the first is academic, and the second is a copyrighted book, and I may need to get to a university to get to either of them. Root⁴(one) 16:33, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

OK, Here's some sources...

I found the following on a DVD, that was part of a 2 pack set.

"D*DAY Remembered" or "D*DAY"

Copyright 2004 St. Clair Entertainment Group, Inc. USA; Princeton Corporate Center, 5 Independence Way, Princeton, NJ 08540

BARCODE 77966-85859

(asterisk may not be included in title)

I transcribed what I could from the DVD.

Martha Ray, Carole Landis, and Mitzi Mayfair performed this... I cannot figure out its title.

It's called SNAFU

????? or (blah blah blah)? means I was unable or unsure how to parse the words

Take a good look, Bud, you're looking at a Trio of Chicks,
who've been through the Mill,
We've been to London, North Africa, we've flown on a plane
All over Brazil,
We've learned a whole lot from all you fellas (I'll say)
But there was just one thing, no one would tell us...
"SNAFU!" What is the meaning of "SNAFU"?
What's it all about?
Can't figure it out. Is it contagious?
Or simply outrageous?
"SNAFU!" We hear it everywhere, "SNAFU!"
Is it like a pill? Or is it a thrill? Is it a military secret?
We asked a (lonely fool)?, at first was rather ??????
And then, he laughed and shouted, "Situation Normal!"
SNAFU! The greatest mystery in history!
Fun is fun, but why can't we find anyone
to spill the beans?
Tell us what SNAFU Means!

(dance dance dance)

"SNAFU!" What is the meaning of SNAFU?
Is it something new that officers do?
Is it a drumstick? Or maybe a topic?
"SNAFU!" We hear it everywhere, "SNAFU!"
Is it cold or hot? Inspected or not?
Is it a pot of GI Coffee?
We wrote a congressman for further information,
He said, you'll have to start, your own investigation!
SNAFU! The greatest mystery in history!
Fun is fun, but why can't we find anyone
to spill the beans?
Tell us what SNAFU Means!

So, there you go. I'm not sure that the lyrics are worthy of including in the article or not. But I'm sure something about this may be worth entering into the article. Root⁴(one) 04:52, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

AMENDMENT

Here are the correct lyrics to SNAFU, with some explanatory notes for those whose English may be limited:

SNAFU

Take a good look, Bud!

You're looking at a trio of chicks

who've been through the mill!

We've been to London, North Africa, we've flown on a plane

all over Brazil!

We learned an awful lot from all you fellas (I'll say!),

but there was just one thing no one would tell us....

SNAFU! What is the meaning of SNAFU?

What's it all about? Can't figure it out!

Is it contagious? Or simply outrageous?

SNAFU! We hear it everywhere,SNAFU!

Is it like a pill? Or is it a thrill?

Is it a military secret?

We asked a looey* who at first was rather formal,

and then he laughed and shouted "Situation normal!

"SNAFU! The greatest mystery in history!

Fun is fun, but why can't we find anyone

to spill the beans?

Tell us what SNAFU Means!

SNAFU! What is the meaning of SNAFU?

Is it something new that officers do?

Is it a dropkick?** Or only a topkick?***

SNAFU! We hear it everywhere, SNAFU!

Is it cold or hot?

Inspected or not?

Is it a pot**** --- of GI coffee?

We wrote a congressman for further information.

He said, “You'll have to start your own investigation!”

SNAFU! The greatest mystery in history!

Now, fun is fun, but why can't we find anyone

to spill the beans?

Tell us what SNAFU means!

NOTES

Bud = Any guy (you could substitute “Pal” or “Friend” or “Joe”).

Chicks = Girls, women.

To go through the mill = To gain experience (usually not in a good way).

To spill the beans = To reveal a secret (sometimes accidentally).

Inspected or not? = I think this is a naughty reference to military VD (“short arm”) inspections. (VD = STD)

• looey = lieutenant

• • dropkick = a move in American football (but here I suspect it’s something else, probably naughty; rhymes with "punt")

• • • topkick = master sergeant

• • • • pot = toilet (probably)

GI = Government Issue = soldier(s’)

SNAFU Song (lyrics?) Part II

OK, SO HOW AM I GOING TO CITE THIS DVD WITHOUT IT BEING LABELED A SALES PITCH?

Seriously.... That fact needs a citation, but the ONLY place I've seen it is on that DVD. I can't even put an IMDB reference to it, they don't even appear to document the DVD (well, by looking up St. Clair Entertainment Group anyway). I mean, shit, if you site a book, is that a "sales pitch" for that book? Yes, it is a recent DVD, and there may be other DVDs with the same song (for which I have YET to find an actual TITLE), but that would take probably a few tens of dollars of investing in DVDs and in terms of my time/wage ratio much more in terms of dollars I could be making an hour with my contract work but instead have decided to spend on researching for wikipedia articles.

I think the history of SNAFU, in popular (40s) or GI culture is quite important to the article, and may help confirm or deny that the term was invented when we think it was invented. I'm not an academic; I must admit, there appear to be some scholarly articles pertaining to this word and other words that I don't have access to that would greatly benefit this article, and actually may contain the info I need. I just need to start doing my research at a university library. But for now, I research from home, and I do what I can do. I DO NOT LIKE people obliterating hours of my work. I spent over 3 hours looking up that stinking song on Google and other search engines with scant information about it.... I could not find it. The DVD was my only proof of the song's existence. Had I not been able to borrow it, I may never have found it again.

Sigh. I'm just pissed at the moment. I'll get back with you later. Half the shit that's used as a reference on wikipedia (internet references, btw) do not match the authenticity of that video. Hell, you wouldn't even know it was on there had I not told you. The Menu Title for the video segment doesn't even mention SNAFU; It mentions Carol Landis and Martha Raye. Even they don't know who the other woman is. That factoid needs a cite. Wikipedia is intended to be verifiable. If I cannot cite not that particular DVD, what the hell is it I can cite? Root⁴(one) 04:49, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

BTW, yes, I know, wikipedia is not about original research, and I'm trying to promote that either (although from my previous message, you might think otherwise). I just thought there were some glaring omissions in the wikipedia article. Some pop culture references from back then would add and aid those interested in the subject. We don't have to figure out when it was created. But maybe we can aid and direct those interested in the subject. Root⁴(one) 05:04, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

The song was entitled "S.N.A.F.U.," and sung by Martha Raye, Mitzi Mayfair and Carol Landis and was filmed for "Four Jills In A Jeep," but I understand it was cut from the final production print of the film; probably considered too risque at that time. Ha -- In the last two or three decades, they'd have had no qualms about giving the unsensored version of the F word in S.N.A.F.U. ManorAvenueManorAvenue (talk) 23:15, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

SNAFU Original Story

I found this site http://www.snafu.com/Snafu/SnafuStory.html

which have the following claim: SNAFU - The original story

Below is some of the content i extracted for your benefits. Sorry guys, I'm new to Wikipedia so I'm not sure how to edit anything.

In 1995 I thought it would be neat to have my own website. Most of the names I wanted were already taken but I remembered a phrase I had heard that seemed to sum up how I felt about a lot of things. SNAFU - Situation Normal, All Fouled Up (okay, it's not really "fouled"). I purchased the URL and started this website. Since I really had nothing to put on a website, I began to place jokes I had received through e-mail that I thought were especially funny. So far, that's about all I've done with it. Then I got this e-mail...

Hello there SNAFU.COM,

What would you say if I told you that I and a Military friend initiated the term SNAFU at a military base called Camp San Luis Obispo in mid 1941. My son has been after me for years to write something up explaining how it all came about.

I never dreamed that there would be so much (stuff) on the internet. A hippie Rock band, A motorcycle, a dog kennel in Oregon etc. It's even in Webster's dictionary. I guess I have no problem with all of this. BUT, I would also like to have the true story published somewhere for those that might be curious about it's true origin.

HOW THE TERM "SNAFU" ORIGINATED WHEN: April or May of 1941 (before Pearl Harbor) WHERE: 160th Infantry Regiment of the 40th Infantry Division at Camp San Luis Obispo, Calif.. HOW: By the transmission of a practice encoded radio message from radio operator John to another radio operator named Don.

THE STORY: Don Taylor and John Paup, both members of the California National Guard in Los Angeles had been ordered to active duty in March of 1941. While in training at Camp San Luis Obispo they spent their daylight hours out in the hills surrounding the Camp sending practice radio messages to each other...

This is the radio they used

BC-148 Radio

The Headquarters Company of the Regiment was the entity responsible for all communications within the regiment and to other entities. Telephone circuits using wire on the ground was the preferred method of the time but radio had to be used when distances were too great.. Most communications by radio was done using the International Morse Code as opposed to voice and was far more dependable and reliable.

Radio communication had the disadvantage of being intercepted by the enemy, and to overcome the problem messages were "scrambled" or converted into five letter code groups by a mechanical device shown below.

M-209 Converter

Example: original "clear text" message. General Bootlikker requires more artillery support.

After being scrambled or converted, it would then be transmitted in five letter groups.. CSIAM OTILA IHTDA SNAFU DWXBR POOPO

At the end of the day and a delicious military meal, Don and John would sit in their spacious five man tent and, having nothing better to do, would sit and convert all the messages they had received back into intelligible words. In the process they would make a game of creating sentences out of the meaningless coded groups.

CSIAM.... = (Colonel Smith is a moron) OTILA.... = (Our tent is leaking again) IHTDA.... = (I hate the damn army) SNAFU.... = (Situation normal, all f----- up)

Don recalls that even though this all happened 63 years ago, he vividly remembers the message he had received from John that day, and the code group with the AFU in it. There was absolutely NO DOUBT as to what THIS stood for but the SN part was a bit of a problem, and may have taken several seconds to resolve.

Don's E-mail continued: "I was also stationed at a radio station on Kauai and in a park in Honolulu while I was going to Japanese Code school at Fort Shafter. I was then sent to operate in a Signal Intelligence radio monitoring station in the heights above Honolulu. This was the outfit that picked up the important message from the Japs that turned the Battle of Midway into a victory for our Navy. I imagine you have heard that story.

"As to how it spread, there is no way of knowing for certain. I think initially it got spread all over the 40th Infantry Division. At that point in time people were being sent to training schools such as Fort Monmouth, N.J., & Fort Benning Georgia. People from other divisions would be attending such schools and would take "SNAFU" back to their outfits when their training was completed. We also had people that were already proficient in certain jobs and they were sent in small groups to become the nucleus for new Divisions. There were also a number of individuals that were sent to Officer Candidate schools."

A picture of the HQ Company of the 160th infantry regiment of the 40th infantry division in April/May of 1941..

More information about the origins of SNAFU and the many things that have come from Don's expansion of the code group will be posted soon. There was a military cartoon, "Private Snafu", a record with Louie Armstrong, and even a website.

Don's son Greg is also posting SNAFU information on his website. Click Here to learn more about SNAFU.

60.52.179.27 08:11, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

This story has been cited on this page before, and it was removed. The problem with this story is:

1. That it is unsubstantiated. That is, this person could be making up this story for all we know.
2. That the word SNAFU was was reported in American Notes and Queries in their September 1941 issue, which means that their use of the word made it to a publication in only 3 months!?!? Unlikely.

Thanks for your interest. I would suggest that you look at the Oxford English Dictionary to research this further. Let us know what you find. Madman 12:07, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

The story is plausible. Presumably elements of it could be checked. As for making it to a publication in three months, remember that we are talking about a word that, like N.A.S.A. after the Challenger explosion, spreads by word of mouth because it is both apt and humorous. In a community of signalmen, transmission would be faster and more widespread than in (say) a public service world of typewriters and messageboys. It is not implausible that such a good word could quickly travel to Washington, where it would spread quickly to all levels and regions of public life. An editor for AN&Q could receive multiple references from several directions in a short space of time, much like a good joke or YouTube link comes in from family, friends and workmates all at once, following different paths. We certainly can't rule this out, though I take the point that it could conceivably be made up. Perhaps we should wait for some publication to report this origin story and then use that publication as a source? --Pete 02:53, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. The story is plausible and we certainly can't rule this out. But we certainly can't quote this either. Anyone out there with access to the OED??? Madman 14:55, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Snafu Jump

Ok, Snafu Jump definitely appears to be by Glenn Miller according to these guys

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Snafu-Jump-Glenn-Miller/dp/B000V3IX9Q

http://www.venerablemusic.com/catalog/TitleDetails.asp?TitleID=13073

... but I can't find anything that wouldn't be considered promotional, so I'm just going to leave it (for now). Root⁴(one) 05:43, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

We already have ways to deal with missing sources; this is not one of them.

I changed this:

Two proprietary variants of the phrase are also attributed to each of the primary services of the time. The Navy version went: "Situation normal; Army fucked up", while the Army retort was "Some Navy asshole fucked up". Beyond serviceman apocrypha, there are no official sources for these variants.

to this:

Two proprietary variants of the phrase are also attributed to each of the primary services of the time. The Navy version went: "Situation normal; Army fucked up", while the Army retort was "Some Navy asshole fucked up".

There's already a citation needed tag there. You don't need to say something to the effect of "this jerk who wrote the previous statement didn't provide a source. Besides, no sources exist anyway." I think following the rules of Wikipedia, one could just as easily put ^{[citation needed]}, because it's pretty hard to prove definitively that the evidence does not exist. Ufwuct (talk) 13:25, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Liberian village: Snafu ... and its US Army roots

On some US topographic maps of Liberia, there is a small abandoned village called Snafu. It is on the coast, directly south of Roberts International Airport.

During WW2, US Army troops were stationed near what was then known as Roberts Field. On current maps, the location of the old Army Post is identified as Unification City. The Army's mission was to secure the vital rubber supply on nearby Firestone Rubber Plantation.

The Army supplies were brought ashore from US Navy ships at a nearby coastal inlet, where a small dock was erected. Local Liberians were hired for manual labor and they built a cluster of houses there. This site was called - by the Army troops at the main camp - "Snafu". So the name stuck ... the Army left after the war ... and all that remains is a dot on some small-scale US topo maps, labeled "Snafu".

This lends some credibility to the story that SNAFU originated with Army troops, not the USMC. There were no Marines in Liberia during WW2, but there were plenty of Army troops (including radiomen). For a USMC expression to make its way from the Pacific to a remote Army post on Africa's Atlantic coast would be more unbelievable than the US Army radioman version.

If my memory is correct, the topo maps were 1:15000 scale "ground" maps. Mine were from the 1980s. I don't know if that scale of map has been updated since ... probably not, since the US had no ground action in that quad since WW2.

BobDohse (talk) 17:41, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

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== Safe Now

Machine translation?

The German article is way better. HelgeHan (talk) 04:58, 24 June 2023 (UTC)