Talk:Anaximander

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Anaximander was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
March 6, 2007	Peer review	Reviewed
May 4, 2007	Good article nominee	Not listed

Current status: Former good article nominee

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Guild of Copy Editors

This article was copy edited by Galena11, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, on 17:40, 12 April 2007 (UTC).Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors articles[reply]

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	This article was copy edited by Prsephone1674 on 21:56, 24 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]
	This article was copy edited by ukexpat on 16:28, 2 August 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Incorrect Image[edit]

The Image Accompining this artice is from Raphael's School of Athens and it is unlikley thet the figure Represents Anaximander.

The Characher shown here is part of a group, the Central Charachter of which is most likely Pythagoras, therfore this charachter copying off Pythagoras, cannot be Anaximander, but is more likely to be Archytas if a name is to be given to him.

More Likely, Raphel intend this figue to represent a Generic Pythogarean

An image (apperently) of Anaximander is here http://www.to-life.se/anaximander.gif

--Inkiwna 09:51, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As a matter of fact, the character is traditionnaly identified as Boethius. However, due to some resemblance with the image mentionned above (a bust of Anaximander), some came to consider it could represent Anaximander. The comment under the picture should provide this information. — Robin des Bois ♘ ➳ ✉ 17:28, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Strange sentence in Known Works section[edit]

It is also mentioned in the wikipedia article on Evolutionism, correctly or not, that Anaximander was the first ancient thinker to touch upon the idea of evolution. Though no quotes or writings from Anaximander himself are shown on the page to support this.

This bizarre fragment seems out of place in both the section and the article, and doesn't seem to conform to the requirements of encyclopedic content on Wikipedia. Anyone else agree that this should be removed? Thanks in advance. Cromag 13:12, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Anaximander's ideas on the origin of man is supported by Pseudo-Plutarch in Doctrines of the Philosophers (V, 19), by Censorinus in De Die Natali (IV, 7) and by Hippolytus of Rome in Refutation of all Heresies (I, 6), just to name a few. All theses references report Anaximander's claim that man came from the sea, either living or looking as a fish, or living inside a fish providing protection until he was able to protect himself. Of course, it is way too early to speak of evolution in the darwinian sense, but the philosopher must have based his views on the resemblance between human and fish embryos. So in that matter, yes, he was the first thinker to consider some kind of evolution. After all, he also claimed that in the beginning, the Earth was covered with water and only with evaporation the sea gave way to land. — Robin des Bois ♘ ➳ ✉ 17:15, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your summary from references doesn't imply that he was first person, "thinker" or or otherwise, to consider some kind of evolution.76.218.105.3 (talk) 04:50, 14 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The term "arche" in Anaximander's writing?[edit]

The article claims that "arche" was "a word first found in Anaximander's writings, and which he probably invented". This is pretty controversial. Several prominent classical scholars dispute it including John Burnet, Jonathan Barnes, and the trio Kirk, Raven & Schofield. The claim is based on an explanation by Simplicius, which is often interpreted as meaning, not that Anaximander was first to use the word "arche", but that he was first to use the term "apeiron". Many scholars believe that there is no evidence to think that any of these early philosophers used "arche" at all, at least as it was later used by Aristotle. Isokrates 16:55, 5 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Isokrates. Since we have no text coming directly from Anaximander, we cannot claim that he ever used the word ἀρχή / (arkhế). However, Simplicius introduces his fragment with mention of the first use of the word ἀπείρων / (apeírôn) to designate the original principle or "arche". Simplicius probably borrowed this attribution from Hippolytus's Refutation of all heresies (I, 5). — Robin des Bois ♘ ➳ ✉ 16:35, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Simplicius and every other ancient source on Anaximander I have been able to find refer to his original principle as τὸ ἄπειρον (to apeiron - the infinite). In the article I have therefore changed the name accordingly. --Fabullus 10:05, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Aniximander[edit]

The mention also known as Anaiximander seems based on nothing. Could anyone justify its use ? In no language have I met his name with that spelling. Unlike the hebrew and arabic languages, Ancient Greek used vowels and in all the ancient texts, we refer to him as Ἀναξίμανδρος. — Robin des Bois ♘ ➳ ✉ 16:03, 30 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Help wanted[edit]

Since I helped a lot in writing the French article (a featured article), I thought I'd give a hand with its English counterpart. I think my English is fine, however I need someone to check the article for syntax, grammar, style conventions, or any typo that might have remained. (Didyaknow, after 2 zillions hours spent on a page, it totally disappears???) Robin des Bois ♘ ➳ ✉ 10:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, great work by the way. Skomorokh 13:03, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Copyedit[edit]

he made the first map in 2020 He was famous for being able to do 10 backflips in a row

Please see hidden comments in text for questions/issues.

More sources - GA comments[edit]

Please add more sources. I just had a brief look at this. Many sentences are not sourced. Please source them and renominate this for GA. Thanks --Aminz 05:26, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I fail see where. Each paragraph has or is a reference! Could you be more specific and use {{verification needed}} where it applies? Thanks. — Robin des Bois ♘ ➳ ✉ 16:31, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your cursory review, Aminz, but I believe that you are overlooking the policy referred to in Wikipedia:Citing sources which states that "Wikipedia:Verifiability says that attribution is required for direct quotes and for material that is challenged or likely to be challenged" (emphasis in original). I have re-examined this article, and while each sentence could be sourced, I don't think that is necessary to meet the Good Article standard. Accordingly, I will seek a review of your assessment. Argos'Dad 22:32, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article Review[edit]

I have sought review of this decision. Argos'Dad 22:53, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As a result of a month long discussion of the decision to fail the article, there was no consensus to overturn the decision of the original reviewer. Thus, the original failure of the GA nomination stands. If you would like to see the archive of this discussion, go to: Wikipedia:Good article review/Archive 21. That discussion contains several fixes which need to be made before the requirements of WP:WIAGA are met. Once those fixes are made, please feel free to renominate the article at WP:GAC. Happy editing! --Jayron32|talk|contribs 01:53, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal[edit]

Apeiron (cosmology) contains no references and much of the info is already here. Either somebody needs to cite sources or they should just be merged. 24.4.253.249 20:31, 27 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't agree. Though he may have been first to use that, it doesn't exclusively have to do with Anaximander. Dictouray 03:59, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Don't Merge: I agree with Dictouray; the article needs references aside from Anaximander's -- Corvus 18:17, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the merge proposal tag. As everyone else said, there are good reasons for having Apeiron (cosmology) as a separate article from Anaximander. If nothing else, the fact that there are 21 different foreign language versions of that page is a good indication that it deserves an independent existence. Singinglemon (talk) 22:18, 11 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Titles of his works[edit]

The titles of his works are in accusative (Γης περιοδον instead of Γης περιοδος and Σφαιραν instead of Σφαιρα). I think there is no need for that. In the Suda dictionary, where his works are listed, they are in accusative besause of the structure of the phrase ("he wrote [+accus.]"). When listed like that, they should be in nominative. I will fix them (you can always revert, if I'm wrong).--Archidamus 17:32, 8 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

anaximander[edit]

Anaximander is said to be a greek philosoper bu he was born in Miletus (Turkey). Howcome he was greek then? he lived in ionian state. I wonder about this matter. If anyone has comment, i would be happy. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.103.33.229 (talk) 12:44, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Roots-Links[edit]

Anaximander's term "apeiron"(endless-having no limit), is similar to "chaos",the original state of existence,according to greek mytholology.<M.O.Sullivan:The four seasons of greek philosophy>.This was a "gaping void",an "abyss"(having no bottom)and is mentioned by Hesiod (8th cent.B.C) in Theogony:"And there,all in their order are the sources and ends of gloomy earth and misty Tartarus and the unfruitfull sea and starry heaven.It's a great gulf...............would not reach the bottom".<736-740. Transl.H.Evelyn White 1914>.(The greek word for "ends" is "peirata".)According to Xenophanis(6th cent.B.C):"Here we see the end(peras) of the earth near our feet by the air,but downwards earth reaches apeiron"<DK B1>.Pherecydes of Siros(6th cent.B.C) referring to the origin he names it "ocean" but also "chaos",like a formless matter which can be diffentiated and create things.<UNESCO Encyclopedia.Vol.2-1972:Sir Leonard Wooley>.Therefore we notice that the term "apeiron" is connected with the greek mythology.The old myth in Hesiod is perhaps a recast of some earlier source in Near East saga<L.H.Jeffery:"The archaic Greece"(1976)p.34>,but is more likely to be lingering traces from the Mycenean tradition than the result of oriental contacts in Hesiod's ovn time.<L.M.West "Early Greek Philosophy and the orient"p.205>. It is almost irresistible that Anaximander by making apeiron(the boundless)into the principle of all things,has started on a high level of abstruction,therefore some authors suspect eastern(Iranian)influence.<Anaximander:The internet encyclopedia o philosophy>.We must notice that similar ideas for a primordial substance of all beings we can find in Hindu beliefs(Brachman)<Bhagavad Gita 4.42,Brihad aranyaka upanishad 2.3.3,Chandogya Upanishad 3.14.1,:"Tao and Physics".F.Capra 1972>.In China the similarity has to do with the theory of opposites,and the mutual changing between elements.<Richard Wilhelm:"I Ching.The bookof changes"> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.65.252.159 (talk) 14:49, 8 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Anaximander[edit]

It is incorrect to say that nature is ruled by laws. The sum total of the laws IS the nature. The laws are not sparate from nature. By nature we cannot mean the material Universe or that which it contains. We cannot ignore the immaterial laws of nature. Since the laws are static while nature is dynamic we must accept that the static laws are only a part of nature. The other part is motivation for change. The motivation acts on both, the material and the immaterial parts. My apology, I forgot to sign the contribution on 11/12/2009. I do it now KK (178.43.107.110 (talk) 13:17, 27 July 2012 (UTC))[reply]

Original Research - Objectivity[edit]

Speaking as someone who has been teaching about the presocratics for many years now, much of this article seems to me to be highly speculative, going well beyond the well established facts about Anaximander, and presenting a tendentious interpretation of his thought in a way that is seriously in violation of the spirit, if not the letter, of Wikipedia policies on "original research". A lot of the information presented as fact is more like the speculations of certain scholars, for which there may be some evidence, but which are by no means well established. It seems to be well informed, but I don't think it gives an objective, unbiased picture of the state of Anaximander scholarship. Much less is really known about him than this article would suggest. Treharne (talk) 14:31, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Treharne. This is certainly true. My last edit removed an unsupported reference to Karl Jaspers' axial age thesis. Many philosophy articles need a lot of work. Feel free to just remove any content that you judge to be not supported by the sources. --Atethnekos (Discussion, Contributions) 20:42, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Anaximander's work is almost lost. A lot of information presented in the article is the result of the works of some well known scholars. It is possible that the scholars made some speculations, but the article gives a useful information to the reader.Jestmoon(talk) 12:15, 19 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A substantial new scholarly source has been published.[edit]

Andrew Gregory (2016). Anaximander: A Re-assessment. ISBN 1472506251. Pandeist (talk) 20:45, 12 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

claiming that nature is ruled by laws[edit]

Could that become "claiming that nature is inexorably regular and, through the attentive deliberations and synopsis of collaborating human intelligence, becomes subject to predictions based upon those synopses and generalization"? MaynardClark (talk) 20:53, 12 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Which fragment says that?[edit]

Which fragment are you quoting for that claim: "As the early humidity evaporated, dry land emerged and, in time, humankind had to adapt"? It seems like an extrapolation of (DK12) A27 and A30. Azerty82 (talk) 17:33, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]