Talk:Meat Loaf

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RfC: Cause of death[edit]

CLOSED

Consensus against the addition of the death cause to the infobox. The arguments for inclusion fell well short of justification in terms of Wikipedia policy and guidelines. Substantial reporting of the cause of death in multiple reliable secondary sources should of course be considered the bare minimum for inclusion, least of all in a biography. This material fails at the first hurdle and amounts to WP:GRAPEVINE. The lack of an official cause of death is not a policy matter, but it is does not need to be, as if the reliable secondary sources are not reporting a known cause of death, neither should Wikipedia, lest it stray into BLP violation territory. As a secondary, but not ultimately influential point, the 'significance' called for the biography infobox template, where it quite clearly states that the cause of death "should only be included when the cause of death has significance for the subject's notability", has not been clearly established. Short of an established cause of death becoming widely reported in reliable secondary sources, this does not merit further discussion. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:44, 25 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should this article include |death_cause=? 01:39, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

No. No cause of death has been officially released; the claim is based on unconfirmed reports in the tabloid source TMZ (see RSP listing), which has since been repeated by other organizations. The family has declined to provide cause of death, and due to the fraught nature of this issue this presents a BDP issue. The template documentation indicates that this parameter should "only be included when the cause of death has significance for the subject's notability", which certainly is not the case here. The unilateral addition should be undone. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:40, 21 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait, so the pertinent article section can claim outright that his death was due to Covid, but the infobox can't? Genuinely asking. PraiseVivec (talk) 10:35, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's not quite the situation here - the section currently indicates that no official cause has been released but some sources attribute it to COVID, which is more nuanced than claiming something outright. Certainly that section could also be improved, but that's not the scope of this RfC. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:57, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. (summoned by bot), this article should include a cause of death. However, as Nikkimaria points out, the cause of death has not been confirmed, so the alleged cause has to be qualified as presently done in the section death. I actually thought the argument in the preceding section was about, which infobox to use, so that cause of death could appear in the infox person? If COVID19 was confirmed I think the infobox should contain the cause of death as it would be a notable element for Meat Loaf. BTW, I see no evidence that Nikkimaria edit warred or bullied.--Wuerzele (talk) 21:36, 21 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Wuerzele. Just to clarify, the question is regarding the inclusion of the parameter in the infobox specifically rather than discussion of cause in the article more generally. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:32, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. This question is out of line as this was already talked about above and has consensus for cause of death. There are several reliable references saying his death was due to COVID, and no they do not use TMZ. There was a compromise to leave in the family did not release an official cause of death. So that is why the death section is laid out like that. So there is already standing consensus for the cause of death and several reliable references in support. ContentEditman (talk) 21:53, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No. For inclusion in the infobox, it's my understanding that "should only be included when the cause of death has significance for the subject's notability" is a fairly high bar, and I don't see that as being met here. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 22:11, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No - Per Paul Erik's rational, which is correct - FlightTime (open channel) 22:26, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No His death cause has not been solidly confirmed in WP:RS, raising concerns over verification and WP:BDP. Additionally, Template:Infobox person says that the death cause parameter should not be included unless the death cause "has significance to the subjects notability." Infobox's should only include the most significant facts and this is not among them. Iamreallygoodatcheckers (talk) 00:28, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No Until the cause of death has been officially confirmed. Comatmebro (talk) 01:43, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No as per Nikkimaria. Connormah (talk) 19:56, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Yes, it is notable enough but the cause of death should only be included once it is officially confirmed by a reliable source.13:44, 4 March 2022 (UTC)
Yes - This is notable enough for the infobox... an anti-masker dying of COVID is the sort of thing you'd want to see at a glance. But it could be qualified until such time as there are official reports released. Fieari (talk) 03:30, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes Plenty of sources, already discussed. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 20:57, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

His Death Cause was announced and MB shouldnt remove his marriage to Deborah’s end.[edit]

Pearl has announced his death cause was COVID. DON’T START ARGUING HE WASNT VAXXED. MB, If a member in a marriage dies, the marriage ends. 120.154.9.231 (talk) 04:26, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but who/what is "Pearl" in this context? You have a reliable reference reporting it? ContentEditman (talk) 21:43, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

His adopted stepdaughter, Pearl Aday, I assume. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:32, 18 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Source? Glaaaastonbury88 (talk) 12:14, 21 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]