Talk:Brendan Behan

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In "Ginger Man"

I'm fairly certain Brendan Behan, or at least a character based on him, makes an appearance in Dunleavy's "The Ginger Man". The main character (Dangerfield) is at a party in Dublin where a drunken, singing man (called Barney Berry) comes in. Dangerfield tells a partygoer "That's the son of the rightful Lord Mayor of Dulin. And his Uncle wrote the national anthem." Berry himself tells the partygoers that "I loved the British prisons...I love all you women. I would do you all and your young brothers". I know Dunleavy and Behan were friends, and it seems to me that this character is Behan making a cameo appearance in Dunleavys story (which takese place in post WW II Dublin). The behavior of Berry seems to match up with Behan's reputation at the time (scandalous, life of the party, etc.) And of course you have references to 1.) his father, the "rightful Lord Mayor", who was held in high esteem in Republican circles for his lifelong refusal to compromise 2.)his Uncle, who did indeed write the national anthem 3.)possible reference to bisexuality of Behan 4.) his heavy drinking and drunkeness 5.) his love of music and song.

I'm curious if anyone else thinks so. It is on page 164 in the edition of "The Ginger Man" I have.-Masthope —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.255.210.172 (talk) 01:42, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

It's fairly common knowledge that JP based the character on Behan, but you'd need to find a reliable source to confirm it. Is Donleavy on record anywhere as having stated this? Mike Galvin (talk) 09:12, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

Bisexual

I see that Brendan Behan is listed as a gay writer but that Julian Bell was not. I say this because there seems to be good grounds for listing Bell as such, but I don't know what basis the Behan listing is. I haven't heard anything that way.

As there is nothing in the article to support this categorisation, I have removed it. Filiocht | Blarneyman 14:11, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

Well, there's Michael O'Sullivan's biography, for starters. At the very least Behan was certainly bisexual.

While we're at it, what about William Shakespeare?--PeadarMaguidhir 21:41, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I think you are probably right about bisexuality, never mentioned at a time when the punishment was hard labour. I don't remember any references in the autobiographies, that seems uncharacteristically reticent for Behan.

Like Behan, theories of Shakespeare's sexuality are thicker than any evidence. If either were, they regarded it as essentially a private matter, and with WS we only really have evidence of the marriage and the issue. I don't think it's particularly useful to hang labels on people - particularly one offs like Behan, unless there's good evidence and it's an acknowledged fact. Kbthompson 12:41, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Peter Arthurs was close to Behan and wrote an account (With Brendan Behan, St, Martin's Press, 1981 - ISBN 0-312-88471-0) which claims that Behan was not only gay but a pedophile. I don't see any reason why Arthurs would lie, but I'm not a Behan scholar (& a Wikipedia noob) so I'll keep it out of the article for now.75.111.197.179 (talk) 07:11, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

That's all well and good, but to have an LGBT category we must support it with sourced material in the body of the article that gives readers the relevant details, so that they're not totally surprised when they get to the bottom, having read along the way about his marriage to a woman, and discover for the VERY FIRST TIME that he also had a thing for other men. Remember, categories are used to categorise subjects based on what's in their articles, not what's in external biographies or people's heads.

I'm removing the LGBT category for now; when something supporting it is added to the article, it can be restored. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 06:17, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Apparently Behan was bisexual as is verified in a biography about him, and he should be listed as a bisexual person here on this site. https://books.google.com/books?id=I74_TIHrJTIC&pg=PA136&lpg=PA136&dq=Brendan+Behan+bisexual&source=bl&ots=tjrjGjQjOd&sig=IvtLpRTiI8GkTRRhRCh8VR-1YbI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CF8Q6AEwCWoVChMI0ceQlIDkyAIVwWk-Ch2c1A3e#v=onepage&q=Brendan%20Behan%20bisexual&f=false

I'm currently writing a dissertation on Brendan Behan and queer theory and I have ample proof of his bisexuality. Ulick O'Connor's biography Brendan Behan (1970) notes accounts of his bisexuality (page 96) from John Ryan, Desmond MacNamara, and two unnamed IRA men. Behan's affairs with women are also noted on the same page. Another biography, Brendan Behan: A Life, by Michael O'Sullivan (1997) details Behan's relationship with Peter Arthurs in New York and his relationship with Fred May, an Irish composer. Behan's bisexuality is assumed within Reading Brendan Behan edited by John McCourt and Brendan Behan: Cultural Nationalism and the Revisionist Writer by John Branigan, two of the most prolific academic texts on Behan's work. Within Behan's work itself, there has been ample discussion by academics, such as Branigan and Michael G. Cronin, on the implied homosexual relationships between Brendan (Behan's literary ego) and Charlie Millwall in Borstal Boy which is a semi-autobiographical work. In Confessions of an Irish Rebel which is a continuation of Borstal Boy, Behan details multiple homosexual encounters, most notably an encounter with Cathal Goulding in the showers of Mountjoy Prison. Most notably in his short story After the Wake, which was published in 1950 in Points Magazine before Behan's rise to fame, Behan details a story of a homosexual trying to seduce a married man and it is implied that the narrator is successful in his endeavor at the end. The short story is not only explicit in its homosexual intentions but it is written in the same autobiographical style as Borstal Boy and Behan's Brendan is presumed to be the narrator. --Hknish (talk) 23:10, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

What's stopping you from putting some of the relevant sourced details into the article, and restoring the LGBT categories? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:35, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Whatever is a ‘prolific academic text’? You seem a muddled polemicist, not a scholar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.240.191.224 (talk) 07:28, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Brendan Behan and Guinness

I have contacted Diagio and Guinness to verify that Brendan Behan was commissioned to write a slogan for Guinness Stout. The response I recieved was as follows... "I contacted our Archives department regarding you enquiry. Unfortunately they are not familiar with either slogan you mentioned in your email. Guinness has never commissioned Brendan Behan to write that line - however, whether Brendan Behan himself wrote that line about Guinness we wouldn’t be able to confirm that for you." Can anyone verify that Brendan Behan even wrote that line???

Carrie Croft

I found a reference to the Behan slogan story on the following webpage: http://www.irishabroad.com/news/irishpost/Travel/Getwhiskedaway.asp. Of course, that doesn't make it true, but it does suggest the legend is not uncommon. Bjimba 20:56, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like an urban myth. He was close to Garech Browne in his last years, so if it was true there were no hard feelings.JoxerD 18:51, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Ould Triangle vs. Lament for Brendan Behan

The "Ireland has lost her sweet angry singer" song is "Lament for Brendan Behan," recorded by the Clancys. In his speech introducing the song on the "Recorded Live in Ireland" album, Liam Clancy describes how "a young Jewish lad" came up to him after a gig, saying that on hearing of Behan's death he "just had to write this song" and asking that the Clancys sing it. I was not able to verify whether the Doug Anthony All Stars cover of it is actually called "The Old (Auld/Ould) Triangle," so I took that mention out. If the DAAS did call it that, it was a mistitling. --Hieronymus Illinensis 18:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

The language - Irish vs. Gaelic

When I initially added the play An Giall and mentioned that Behan had written the play in Irish, I selected the name of the language (Irish instead of Gaelic) on purpose. If you follow the link Irish language, you'll see why I did. The preferred usage in a scholarly work is "Irish". I've changed this one back, and hope I can get agreement on it. (I do realize that trying to get agreement from any group of people interested in Behan's page is a difficult task.)

Also, when I added that entry, I had described it something like "Behan wrote the play in Irish, and then translated it himself into English". This has been changed, apparently in an effort to make it less wordy. But the words were chosen very carefully -- he wrote the entire play in one language, and then began to translate into English. I wanted to convey the fact that he did not write in both languages simultaneously, and also the fact that he did the translation himself -- an unusual step for an author, where it is more common for someone else to do the translation. In any case, I didn't change it back, but I'd like to ask for suggestions for how this should best be worded. Bjimba 03:40, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I have no trouble with Irish, that's what it was called when I was a kid, and that was towards the end of Behan's life.

I would also say that the actual theatrical productions were also important, both The Quare fellow and The Hostage transferred to the Theatre Workshop, in Stratford. John Littlewood's company specialised in a form of improvisational theatre, where plays would be transformed in production. Behan was intimately involved during that process, but the plays essentially developed in performance. The Theatre Workshop got into trouble with the Lord Chamberlaine's dept. because they never kept to any kind of script. It was the Theatre Workshop productions that transferred to the West End and New York, thereby making Behan's International reputation. Kbthompson 23:45, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

The Quare Fella

This article states that the "Quare Fella" is slang for the condemned man. I have always understood that this refers to the Hangman. When my mother used the expression, she would be refering to somebody who she thought "a bit strange" or someone she "didn't know". If the term refers to the condemed man, it would be called the "Quare Fellas" because there are two condemned men, not one. Thank you. Pat Pending (talk) 14:44, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

• • Yes 'quare' is a colloquial Irish English spelling for 'queer', meaning 'unusual'. It is not slang for 'a condemned man' but a condemned man, or indeed a hangman could be a quare fella. As it's a long time since i saw the play I forget to whom it refers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.66.226.95 (talk) 14:41, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

• • • Someone believes that 'Quare' equalled 'Condemned' in 1950s Dublin speech. It didn't then, and it doesn't now. The characters are referring to a man who happens to be condemned, and his crimes encourage the label (hence the confusion), but the term could equally be applied to the uncondemned. A 'Quare Fella' is a general term indicting someone odd or peculiar or judged to be an outsider. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.66.226.95 (talk) 13:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, that fits in nicely with what me Mammy used to say, and they're never wrong! All the best, Pat Pending (talk) 18:37, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

The image - which one is Behan?

It's not clear to me which one is Behan. Can someone who knows please indicate in the caption?

O tempora! O mores! That people could not tell which is the defunct American TV comic, and which the immortal Irish litterateur… — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.240.191.224 (talk) 07:24, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Clarification added to image. BigDunc^Talk 11:50, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Time For Revision?

This article is a travesty, lacking citations and replete with POV statements. Hushpuckena (talk) 05:08, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

It's detailed and comprehensive, but it lacks citations and reads like a personal essay. I'm going to add a refimprove template. --Ef80 (talk) 18:52, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Some comments on the "Songs" section:

"The Auld Triangle" - Not written by Brendan, but his brother Dominic for Brendan's play 'The Quare Fellow "The Captain and the Kings" - Written by Brendan. "Come out ye Black and Tans" - Again, a Dominic Behan song - written about their dad Stephen. "Streams of Whiskey" by the Pogues - As it says, a Shane MacGowan song although Brendan is the subject — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.222.113.24 (talk) 20:03, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Encyclopedia?

Wikipedia gives a lot of lip service to being an "encyclopedia" and a stickler for referencing sources. This article is an example of how Wikipedia is and does neither. None of this is sourced. A lot of it reads like pure conjecture and a fan page. I came to this page because I did not know anything about the subject. I still don't. None of this is reliable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.151.233 (talk) 04:32, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

I must point out that the claim in the first paragraph of this article, "He is widely regarded as one of the greatest Irish writers of all time." is sourced to a single article on the website "Irish Central" which makes no claim that Behan is "one of the greatest Irish writers of all time". The article is a list of "ten top" Irish writers "You Should Know". Note the article doesn't say "top ten", but "ten top", and is reflective of a single person's point of view --the author is a nurse practitioner who holds a BA in English. In fairness, one cannot use this fact to qualify the opinion is "widely regarded". Might I suggest editing or removing this unsourced and unsupported claim. 157.131.156.132 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:39, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Indeed. This is Wikipedia. It’s but a fanboys’ and fangirls’ playground. As a lifetime admirer of Behan’s writing, this article considerably annoyed me. But that is the age we live in, where opinion has overwhelmed fact and left it gasping and dying. I relish his prose, his vigour, his humour, but like Dylan Thomas, he was a muddled man. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.240.191.224 (talk) 07:19, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Name

Just some notes pertaining to an edit I made: Michael O'Sullivan's book, 'Brendan Behan: A Life' gives some detail of Behan's birth/ baptismal name and the name(s) he used through his life: like his father, who called himself Stephen, Brendan Behan was christened 'Francis' (the record of his birth, available in several places online, confirms this); in the same book, O'Sullivan quotes Behan, relating an anecdote from his time as a student under the Christian Brothers, referring to himself as 'Brendan Francis Aidan Behan'. Presumably the 'Aidan' was his Confirmation name, but no clarification is given. At any rate his birth name, on all available evidence, was merely 'Francis Behan', with the 'Brendan' being a name he chose to be known by. Ashiyura (talk) 19:06, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Brendan Behan/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Needs more sources really. One Night In Hackney303 22:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC) == Death == I've heard it said that at the hospital where he died, nuns served as nurses. Just before he passed on, he is said to have looked at the sister who was attending him and said, "May you be the mother of a bishop." Daver852 (talk) 04:08, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Last edited at 04:08, 29 June 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 10:14, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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"One of the greatest Irish Writers of all time"

The source for this seems fairly dubious, and I doubt such an extravagant claim would be supported by many experts. A good proportion of his later output was (by his own admission) inferior stuff, and his output wasn't extensive to begin with. Borstal Boy and The Quare Fellow aside (and possibly The Hostage), is this really merited? Hanoi Road (talk) 23:59, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

He wasn't Swift or Yeats, but he didn't have their advantages. Yet he could go to Paris in the 1950s and come up with a ditty like:

I absolutely must decline

To dance in the streets with Gertrude Stein

And as for Alice B. Toklas

I'd rather Shakespeare and a great big box of chocolades.78.17.32.83 (talk) 20:25, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

It's a clever piece, but as you point out, he wasn't Swift or Yeats; which is sort of the point I was making. To put him in that category seems a reach. Hanoi Road (talk) 00:19, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

Heart Attack

Behan's official cause of death is recorded as Cardiac Arrest. This was likely a result of alcoholism, but the article does not specify it. Hanoi Road (talk) 00:33, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

He was being treated at the Meath Hospital for liver failure, not a surprise.78.17.32.83 (talk) 20:27, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

"Breandán Ó Beacháin"

Is there any source for this, or that he ever used an Irish Gaelic form of his name? Particularly given that his birth name was "Francis", it seems unlikely he'd have been referred to by this name on any documentation, but if a source exists it'd be worth citing.