Talk:Split Enz

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Untitled[edit]

Is Photography allowed in Te Papa? - Maybe a Wellington Wikipedian could photograph the costumes displayed there.dramatic 04:31, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)0+

...or maybe a Hamiltonian could pop down to the display at Te Awamutu museum? User:Grutness|Grutness talk 09:04, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Peer Review[edit]

This article has some great content, but its structure is really hard to read. It has a lot of potential, but it needs some work, and some news ideas to make it a feature article. --Brendanfox 03:51, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Vinyl[edit]

Surely should mention the remarkable laser-etched vinyl of True Colours -- Jmabel | Talk 18:46, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

I think that's a great idea, feel free to add something along those lines. --Brendanfox 10:49, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I can't work out where to place this in this rather strangely structured article, but here's what I'd say; you can work out where to put it:

The crisp sounds of 1979's True Colours placed the Split Enz firmly in the New Wave camp. Their neo-mod haircuts were equally crisp, as was the geometric laser etchings into the vinyl of the disc, which reflected light in colorful patterns as the disc rotated. All tracks were listed on the A-side label, allowing the B-side a solid black label to maximixe the dramatic visual effect.

Jmabel | Talk 18:18, Feb 15, 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I see what you mean. I think we need to address the structure of the article as a whole, possibly making some areas more brief, and expanding on others. We'll hold onto that piece until we get the structure right, and then add it in, where appropriate. --Brendanfox 05:50, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

"Like nothing else"? Lo-rent KISS, or Lex & the Blue Scream, from where I'm sitting... Trekphiler 06:27, 23 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

1. The only similarities with Kiss would be the make-up. Also Kiss didn't have a keyboardist and are in different music genres. 2. I have never heard of "Lex and the blue scream" has anyone alse heard of them? also I did google search on them and got zero hits! -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mutley (talk • contribs) 24 June 2006.

Needs flow[edit]

This article is chock-full of great information, but there's no flow to it. I would like to break out the wealth of Enz trivia by album, because it would provide a more logical direction to the article.   PitShig | @   17:02, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Any re-working of the structure could only be an improvement, go for it! Brendanfox 23:45, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Y'know? I just might. And it might also be able to be accessed over here. :)   PitShig | @   01:02, 23 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I think one of the major problems with this article is that much of what is in the introduction (such as the band's origins) is then repeated in the body of the article. Probably the best thing to do would be to cut down the introduction to 1 paragraph. It's also extremely long, although I do like the structure of NZ, OZ, UK. Willnz0 23:02, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I have added some subheadings to make the article easier to read. If anyone can think of more appropriate ones then please change them--Mutley 10:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ENZ ARE NOT TOURING NZ. WHAT ABOUT ENZSO? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.110.145.13 (talk • contribs) 1 Feb 2006

David Tickle[edit]

FYI, a separate Wiki entry for David Tickle now exists. Grimhim 23:47, 22 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]


I Got You sleeve?[edit]

Minor nitpick, but the image of the picture sleeve for the "I Got You" single looks like an *Italian* pressing rather than a UK copy. See the comparison on this web page: http://www.kiakaha.net/nifty/Enz/True.html - the Italian sleeve has geometric shapes that are not present on the UK version. 118.93.163.111 (talk) 00:27, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Missing Band Member Wiki pages[edit]

A few months ago I added a page for Phil Judd

Just added a new one for Malcolm Green —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dizrythmia (talk • contribs) 2 July 2006.

Reefer cabaret[edit]

The Enz performed multiple Gigs in Australia early in their career at a venue called the Reefer Cabaret can anyone add something about this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.214.21.129 (talk • contribs) 08:19, 4 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Discography[edit]

The discography is getting too big - it needs to be moved to a separate page--Mutley 09:12, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

- I'm all for that... of course you'll get certain people who insist on merging everything (like my Enzology article). Kinda why I've given up writing this in this entry.--Dizrythmia 20:11, 01 May 2007

Mental Notes[edit]

I have a comment about this passage: "Mushroom's staff were young, keen, aggressive and willing to take risks — exactly the kind of company Split Enz needed. He is often criticised (with some justification) for the treatment of artists on the Mushroom roster." Who is "he"? That's unclear in this paragraph.

Gudinski I'd assume. I should fix that.BrianFG 04:53, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Much of it should have been re-written! "exactly the kind of company Split Enz needed" is that subjective? (24.62.100.251 (talk) 15:17, 10 February 2012 (UTC))[reply]

Reunion speculation[edit]

I removed the following from the Reunions section since it was entirely speculative, and Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. If concrete plans are announced, or specifically rejected, it will be worth noting then.

"Rumours of them continuing as a "working band" after this tour have not yet been debunked, nor has the unlikely event of another album, though this is doubted to include Neil Finn if it does occur, as he reformed Crowded House in 2007, releasing a new studio album and promising at least another in the near future." Gusworld (talk) 04:56, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Death of Wally Wilkinson —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gervox (talk • contribs) 12:44, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just a note to mention that one of the early line up members Don "Wally" Wilkinson, lead Guitarist (Feb 1973-early 1974) later became a police officer,and was killed in the line of duty.10-09-2008.I heard this on our national New Zealand news today. 12-09-08.````

This story is being reported on a number of blogs and news aggregation sites, eg [1]. It seems to have been pulled from the only primary news sites I could find which carried it - Newstalk ZB carried the story but then removed any mention of a Split Enz connection[2], and stuff.co.nz quoted Superintendent Ted Cox as saying that Wilkinson was in Split Enz, but then removed this part of their story.[3]. The name of the Split Enz member was Paul Wilkinson. I think perhaps someone got confused, and these are two different people.-gadfium 19:41, 12 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tours & Shows[edit]

I saw Split Enz around 1982 or 1983 - a 3XY Under 18's concert in Melbourne, which also featured DD Smash and the Eurogliders before hand. Sadly, no references seem to be available. I also saw the Enz at "The Club" in Collingwood one night - must have been 1983 or 1984 - without Tim Finn, who was apparently off in the US promoting "Escapade" from memory. They had a black girl singing backup - had never seen her before, never seen her since. I wonder who she was... --Commking (talk) 05:06, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Commking, what do any of your cherished hazy memories ("I seem to remember....was it 1982 or 1983? Hmmm?) have to do with the article? This isn't a Split Enz Fan Forum. This page is for discussion of the Wikipedia entry. Please refrain from these off topic asides. Thank you (24.62.100.251 (talk) 14:55, 10 February 2012 (UTC))[reply]

POV Issues[edit]

This article does have a lot of potential, however, there are countless problems with POV and some contradictory text as well. There needs to be more flow, chronologically, and referencing.--leahtwosaints (talk) 05:51, 18 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have made some changes to the lead in regards to genres and years.--Mutley (talk) 12:17, 6 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is still heavily POV and reads like a rave review. There are numerous references to the band's "excellence" "talent" ect...ect... The entry needs much work and I have inserted a POV check as the article is heavy on opinion and low on objectivity. Here is just one startling example of this:" their musical excellence, originality and enthusiasm again won them a cult following" hardly objective! (24.62.100.251 (talk) 14:44, 10 February 2012 (UTC))[reply]

I have removed the POV words from the article. There were about 3 or 4 in the first half of the history section --Mutley (talk) 04:21, 14 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Contradicting Info[edit]

I noticed these two sentences which appear to contradict.

In preparation for their performance, they recorded "129" and "Home Sweet Home" (the songs would be released in November as their second single). Soon after, they also recorded the retro-1930s sounding "Sweet Talking Spoon Song", which would become the second single.

As I do not have much knowledge on the group I cannot do the edit. I wondered if the current editor(s) would like to address this issue.THX1136 (talk) 16:57, 29 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright violation[edit]

A substantial portion of this article appears to have been copied from http://www.milesago.com/Artists/enz.htm on 11 October 2004. @Dunks58:, can you shed any light on this? The diff shows whole paragraphs identical to the site, and the site was listed as an external link in the article prior to the addition of material, so seems unlikely that it copied from this article. Much of the material is still present in the current version of the article.-gadfium 23:52, 3 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed! Thanks for noticing that, gadfium. Fortunately (?) there's no question here about who had it first – the external site was archived on 21 April 2003 (please see below). Unfortunately, it means that a large number of subsequent edits will need to be redone. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 12:13, 4 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Gadfium and Justlettersandnumbers: Dunks58 is the copyright holder of that text. See a similar discussion and my messages to him on his talk page. I don't really want to get involved in this directly; I'm just putting this out there. Graham87 06:31, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your note @Graham87:. In that case, I would assume this article can be restored. I'm not sure of the best way to ensure that other articles expanded by Dunks58 are not similarly identified incorrectly as copyright violations.-gadfium 06:43, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for mentioning that, Graham87; unfortunately, it probably means that all other contributions from this editor will need to be checked, unless it can be shown that the copyright materials have at some time been released in accordance with whatever was the then-correct method. By the time of the discussion at Talk:Normie Rowe in June 2009, the procedure was this, but I see no indication that OTRS permission was ever received (I've searched for tickets mentioning "milesago", "Dunks58" and "Normie Rowe"; I also checked for "Split Enz" while I was at it). gadfium, unless proper permission has been received, these have to be treated as copyright violations even if the content was placed here in good faith by the real owner (in a worst-case scenario, someone could falsely claim to be the owner of a website; we verify to exclude that sort of unpleasant possibility).
Yes, gadfium, the content can be restored if it can be shown that it has been released under a suitable licence; Dunks58 would need to follow the "donating" link in the template you left on his talk-page on 4 June 2016, or in the section below this one. Whether it should be restored is another question – as far as I recall, it was pretty much devoid of any reliable source. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 08:48, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright problem removed[edit]

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://web.archive.org/web/20030421003339/http://www.milesago.com/Artists/enz.htm. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 12:13, 4 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that there is agreement that these revisions do not contain copyright violations. Accordingly I have now restored these revisions. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:48, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

There's certainly no agreement on my part, MSGJ! I'm still trying to understand this (it affects many articles, I think). If permission to use this content has been received and filed, can you help me see or know where it is stored, and who has access to it? I wasn't around in October 2004, when the milesago page was copied here, or about six months later, when it seems that email verification of copyright releases was required. How do we go about finding out if that was ever received? I'm going to ping Jmabel and Moonriddengirl, who seem to have been the principal architects of the Donating copyrighted materials page, in the hope that either or both can shed some light. If, as appears possible, no proper permission was ever recorded, then I think we may need a CCI. I do note this edit by Shell Kinney; that editor is long gone, or I'd ask him about it. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 15:46, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I see your ping, but I have no idea what you are asking me. I'm not on the OTRS team, so I wouldn't have any record of any email granting permissions. And we should certainly not take other people's copyrighted work without their permission. - Jmabel | Talk 16:00, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, Jmabel, I wasn't at all clear. What I'm looking for is some insight into how copyright release was handled in about 2004, and where – if anywhere – releases from that time might be stored. I thought to ask you because I notice that you created Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials in January 2005, which made me think this might have been an area where you were active at that time. If I'm wrong about that, please ignore this. Your mention of OTRS made me think: the oldest ticket I'm able to see is from 17 September 2004, a few days before the mass addition here; but I don't know if the system was up and running then. I agree, we can't use this stuff if we don't have a proper release for it, so although this is very old history, I think it has to be unpicked. Thanks for your input, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 17:06, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Evidently, Justlettersandnumbers, permission was never sent - Shell undid her confirmation flag. I did a search of OTRS, and I found nothing. It seems that this person may have made some assertions, but I have not found verification of this. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 20:26, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Damn, I should have been able to find that for myself – thanks, Moonriddengirl! Unless anyone can indicate where permission to use the milesago content was received and logged, I'm going to go ahead and request a WP:CCI for Dunks58, as a number of articles seem to be affected. MSGJ, I believe those revisions should be hidden again – assertions alone aren't enough for us now, and (as far as I'm able to understand) weren't enough for us then either. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 22:56, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright and revisions etc[edit]

I was dismayed to discover yesterday the mutilated stub that the "Career" section had been left in - pathetically inadequate IMO - so I have restored it. Before you all go apeshit about this and where it's been 'copied' from ... let me state here clearly and unequivocally that I (Duncan Kimball aka dunks58) am the 'owner' and creator of the Milesago website and all the material therein (unless otherwise duly credited) is my work and my copyright. I hereby give myself and anyone else full and unqualified permission under the relevant guidelines bla bla to use anything from Milesago that is not copyright of another author for free use on Wikipedia in any form. OK? Are we good now?

I have tried to re-edit the Milesago source material (which was a FAN SITE OK?) to establish a more neutral PoV and not make it a shameless hagiography - to which however the band are entirely entitled IMHO - and create a more coherent chronological flow. I will continue to update as time permits and add more inline references as soon as possible. These are well-known sources like 'Stranded in Paradise' and McFarlane's Encyclopedia so if anyone else wants to chip in with adding these ref's - go crazy. It's not rocket science. Any problems - let me know - happy to do whatever to get this article up to a reasonable standard because this group deserves it .... (oh and to whichever doofus described them as "low-rent KISS" ... you are NOT getting it. Listen to the records pal - NOTHING like KISS.) Cheers! Dunks (talk) 02:52, 16 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fan sites are considered unreliable sources at Wikipedia. You might want to read some documentation.
Dunks58, you added a lot of information that is unsourced and you deleted and changed information that was sourced. That isn't the way Wikipedia works, however inadequate you find it, and is likely to bother the people who spent time editing correctly. Instead of deleting what you added, which I could've done, I'm telling you now. The information you added must have come from somewhere. Where? It needs to have citations to reliable sources. Your use of first name (calling Tim Finn "Tim" as if you knew him) is inappropriate to the formal, businesslike tone and neutrality of Wikipedia. See the Manual of Style regarding this matter and others. One's approach ought to be impartial and one's tone ought to be neutral, and the material must come from reliable, third-party sources as defined in the documentation. This is why it can be a bad idea to write about a topic about which one has strong feelings.
–Vmavanti (talk) 14:15, 16 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Dunks58:It also is insufficient to declare that I hereby give myself and anyone else full and unqualified permission under the relevant guidelines bla bla to use anything from Milesago that is not copyright of another author for free use on Wikipedia in any form, partly because you do not clearly differentiate between what is and isn't copyright of another author on your website, but mostly because material in Wikipedia is free for reuse by others, including by commercial endeavours. See WP:COPYRIGHTS. You will need to either change the copyright notice at the bottom of your website to one which is compatible with Wikipedia, such as CC BY-SA, or email to permissions-commons@wikimedia.org from your milesago.com email address with details of the licensing. See Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for details.

Rewrite in progress[edit]

Hi everyone. Not sure how many people are still watching this article at the moment but I am currently doing a complete rewrite in userspace to make it more in line with Wikipedia's style guidelines. You can find it here, but please note it's a work in progress and is far from finished. ToQ100gou (talk) 03:38, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

ToQ100gou, I did my own rewrite and just now looked at the talk page and saw that you were working on one. Did not mean to step on any toes. Please feel free to add any changes you think would be beneficial. As you will see, the page has been significantly shortened, which I thought was appropriate given that so much of the overly-detailed text was totally unsourced. MonMothma (talk) 11:21, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No worries actually, I just noticed it now and I appreciate it. The shortening has made the page a lot easier to deal with, though I think the biggest problem is with how a lot of the prose was copypasted and/or slightly changed from the Milesago page, the hagiographic tone of the copypasted text, and, as you have pointed out, the lack of sources. We could probably put a lot of the information back in as long as it is worded better and properly sourced. ToQ100gou (talk) 12:17, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Cool. Thanks for understanding. MonMothma (talk) 15:07, 8 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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