Talk:Chesham

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Former featured article candidateChesham is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
April 5, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted



older comments[edit]

I am not a linguist or an expert in pronounciation, however I would say that Cheshamites pronounce their town "chess-um" or even "chess-mm". Much as the 'ham' in "Birmingham" is said in the south east. As far as I am aware this pronounciation was dominant until the arrival of the railway in 1889 brought an influx of new residents and Chesham began to be sucked into the greater London conurbation as a dormitory town for well to-do commuters.

Depends who you talk to how they pronounce the town name. I have been all over the Chilterns and heard Bucks folk pronounce it Chess-um, saying it Che-sham makes you sound like an in-comer. Similarly Bisham Abbey is pronounced Biss-um and not Bi-sham.

London Underground calls it Chesh-um, and that is surely a key sign that this is now the dominant pronunciation. As an incomer who lived in Chesham for over 10 years, and still goes there most weeks, it is apparent that the overwhelmingly common pronunciation in the town, especially among the young, is Chesh-um. The historic "correct" pronunciation is surely Chess-um, but language changes, and this is becoming obsolete. My former (now late) aged neighbour, who had that rarely heard thing, a Buckinghamshire accent, pronounced it more like Chezz-um. Cheshamites do whinge, ever since Chesham and Amersham were joined into Chiltern District, and Amersham became head office, Cheshamites think they got a raw deal. The reality is that Chesham town centre is much better and nicer than Amersham-on-the-Hill, while Old Amersham is just a row of antique shops. iviehoff@hotmail.com

In the following text Modern English is in brackets.

The source of the name 'Cæstæleshamm' comes from the will of Queen/Lady Ælfgifu (Queen/Lady Elgiva) in 970AD, the first wife of King Æthelred Unræd (Ethelred the Unready). The film and theatre venue in Chesham is named after her: Elgiva Hall. Source of will and date -> http://www.cheshammuseum.org.uk/timeline.html

Æthelred Unræd is well documented. Look here to see how 'good' a king he was -> http://www.battle1066.com/aethel.shtml He infamously introduced the Danegeld - a tribute - and eventually fled to Normandy when the Danish Vikings invaded under King Cnut (Canute).

Lady Ælfgifu built Cæstæleshamm's first mill by diverting the Isne (River Chess) and so created the mor (Chesham Moor). The Normans shortened Cæstæleshamm to Cestreham and by the mid 13th century the name had become Chesham. Cæstæleshamm is also mentioned as Ceastelshamm or Cæstelshamm. Source -> http://www.bucksfreepress.co.uk/communityinfo/communitylinks/townguides/display.var.377114.0.chesham.php

In The Domesday Book there were four mills listed for Cestreham. Source -> http://www.domesdaybook.co.uk/buckinghamshire1.html

A cæstel/ceastel/castel can be a castle, [Roman] fort or heap of stones. A similar word is cæster/ceaster/ceastre which means a city, fort, castle or town. Source of Old English -> http://home.comcast.net/~modean52/old_to_new_english_c.htm

Ceastel can imply the remains of a Roman villa. Source -> http://www.coxresearcher.com/definitions/field.htm

At Latimer there was a Roman Villa, occupied until the 2nd Century. I have read that the pile of stones in question refers to the great puddingstones in the foundations of St Mary's church (popular belief). I think it is much more likely that the heap of stones refers to the remains of the Roman Villa.

Chesham is famous for its water meadows. We still grow watercress here. In fact the cress is grown within a 2 minute walk down the valley from the site of the Roman Villa. This villa was a homestead. They were growing grapes and terracing the sides of the valley.

The site of the villa is now called Latimer Park. It sits in the base of a valley overlooked by Latimer House. Latimer House, now a conference centre was owned by the Cavendish family - Barons of Chesham - and was used in World War II to hold high ranking Nazis.

I went to Blackhorse Middle School by the Chess and my headmaster used to revel in telling us (children) the 'history' of how Chesham got its name i.e. Ham on the Chess. It really is inexcusable for a teacher to make this mistake; the local secondary school at the time was named Cestreham Secondary! Paradoxically the River Chess takes its name from Chesham according to this source -> http://www.civicheraldry.co.uk/bucks.html

The Normans dropped the second h from hamm. Ham and hamm are both two valid Anglo-Saxon words. Ham is a settlement or hamlet, hamm is a watermeadow or pastureland. It's easy to make this mistake if you haven't the background or done the research.

Ham on the Chess only has meaning after Cestreham became Chesham in the mid 13th century. It certainly is false when you venture further back into history. The trouble is with English town names they have changed so much over the centuries. Original meanings get replaced by new incorrect ones based on modern spellings.

As for pronounciation, who knows what is 'right'. Class affects how people pronounce things. Incorrect assumptions as in Ham on the Chess is another. I say Che-shum, my dad says Ches-hmm. Cæstæleshamm consists of Cæstæl and Hamm. When combined it becomes Cæstæles-hamm, so maybe Ches-hmm is correct! People say Che-sham simply because of the s and h making sh.

simcon_sfbritain@hotmail.com

Ham and hamm[edit]

Might be worth editing wiktionary:ham LoopZilla 21:34, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Current article[edit]

I "bumped into" the article on Chesham almost by accident. Initially it looks impressive but turns out to be a long moan by an obviously disgruntled resident.

Does anyone feel the same way and can we have more dispassionate editing on the subject of Chesham ?

Greg

It really is this deppressing,

Mike

Please sign your posts using four tildes (~) so that we know who you are and when you posted. I agree that this article needs to be rewritten in a more neutral tone. - Feebtlas 09:31, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Far too much social commentary in the article, eg "Probably due to the lack of any other amusements, drugs are also a popular means of entertainment, for young and old alike"

I doubt there's much chance of this article being rewritten by a Chesham-based person, they're probably all too busy taking drugs or setting fire to things. 172.146.238.61 20:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have tried to clean this up. I originate from Chesham. The site really was quite depressing.

Surprising really. Chesham seems to be a normal place. Gordo 08:16, 4 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation[edit]

Do we need to disambiguate Chesham, New Hampshire, USA with Chesham, Buckinghamshire, England?

Spring Clean[edit]

I have does some house-keeping (hopefully not too radical!) including on a few wlinks and on some of the sections which had some unsubstantiated non-notable edits added viz re mobile telecoms and pronunciations in the Chilterns and the USA! I've also tightened up the lead although this does need some further work done on it. The history section needs expanding so will research this / encourage some more input here as well as a new section on Industry etcTmol42 (talk) 22:12, 25 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hammer House of Horror: The Silent Scream[edit]

Recently I watched Hammer House of Horror: The Silent Scream and I found that the "pet shop" being used is possibly now the H.A.G. Meat Shop at 68 Broad Street. The episode has Peter Cushing as an "ex-prisoner" of a Nazi concentration camp. The YouTube video http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NhLKQrZbX2w at 5:22 shows the Broad Street houses across the road, and http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VsI6VeEcTww looks out left towards the laundrette at 1:22 and another shot looks over from possibly the old police station at 5:50. Simcon (talk) 19:18, 2 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mayflower[edit]

<<In 1620 two local families sailed to Massachusetts on the Mayflower.>> Really? I am dubious about this. What is the evidence for this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.15.54.213 (talk) 12:36, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This reference to this was revised some time ago to reflect the lack of a citation to support this.
To do list also deleted Tmol42 (talk) 16:15, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Emigration[edit]

<<In the 1630s and '40s, increasing numbers of these dissenters left Chesham and the surrounding district to join the English colonies in Massachusetts including in 1643 John Winthrop's fleet.>> What is the evidence for this? What is the evidence for increasing numbers of people from Chesham in New England? I checked the list of people known to go on Winthrop's fleet and not a single one was known to be from Chesham. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.220.213 (talk) 16:46, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Repetition of info[edit]

There seems to be repetition of information under RELIGIOUS DISSENT and then again under RELIGION later on. Good information but does not need repeating. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.192.220.213 (talk) 16:59, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

parts of it still cannot receive Channel 5[edit]

Is this still the case after switchover? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 23:49, 13 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

pronunciation[edit]

I realise the IPA transcriptions are broad, but I wonder if, in a variant of the first pronunciation, I can hear light aspiration before the schwa? Almost: /'tʃɛʃhəm/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 22:05, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments on bold on article[edit]

I have removed some personal comments added in Bold text on the article page. The correct way to discuss the article content is to discuss it here not on the article page. Tmol42 (talk) 22:13, 17 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Chase Family[edit]

The story that Aquila Chase of Hundridge went to America in 1630 is dubious. Being as he went to London and died there see http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Aquilla_Chase_%281%29 Maybe we can just remove this section which isn't much about Chesham anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChilternGiant (talk • contribs) 00:32, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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