Talk:Bicolor cat

most black and white tuxedo cats are alike

Resolved

many pictures on the internet shows black and white cats that look almost alike...I wonder if tuxedo cat genes are that strong...and i'm not talking just my country...tuxedo cats copies are arround all the world! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.106.185.250 (talk • contribs)

No, the problem is that all humans have genes that make them ignore the obvious differences between tuxedo cats. <g>. - Nunh-huh 06:31, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

I've noticed similarities in black and white cats-- for instance, the blaze up the face or the propensity for spots on the hindquarters-- but each one also looks unique. Mine had a little black spot on his nose *grins* was just a bicolor, not a tuxedo. Kuronue 19:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

That comes from the piebald pattern that is common to all domestic cats. White spots on a cat always appear in specific places, and their size is also related to one another. This tends to give a consistent pattern of color-and-white (not just black, the same goes or all cat colours). That's why they look so similar.--Ramdrake 01:11, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Tuxedos are unique

Resolved

From their appetite for plastic to their fetish for soap, it's not only their appearance that proves they are a breed apart. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.246.6.220 (talk • contribs)

Having had two of them, I agree that tuxedo cats are unique and deserve their own entry (although I can verify that an appetite for plastic is not the unique element. WBcoleman 22:18, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Merging Appropriate

Talk 01:45, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

 – merged as requested Kuronue

The two should be merged. The charts on the bicolor cat article make it quite clear that the tuxedo patterning is just that -- a patterning.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Elizabethjaneforrest (talk • contribs)

yes absolutely they should be merged. From a genetic standpoint, this is just a different degree of expression of the same gene. pschemp | talk 20:20, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and done the merge. pschemp | talk 20:32, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

pet peeve

Resolved

Over three different talk pages people act like "Tuxedo" is a breed. It's not! It's a color! You can have a Tuxedo Domestic Shorthair, the most common, but I bet you could also have a Tuxedo Manx or a Tuxedo Ragdoll or any one of a million other breeds. And each breed has it's own personality type. Tuxedo cats in general do not share any specific personality traits, like "shy" or "friendly"-- it depends on the breed and to a large degree on the individual animal. sheesh. Kuronue 19:22, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

It is not listed as a breed, it is listed as a type. Of course it isn't a breed, but that doesn't stop people from comparing alike things.pschemp | talk 23:57, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it's not even really a color: it's a pattern. (Black, red, white, blue, cream, chocolate, lilac, apricot, etc. are cat colors). Just my tuppence.--Ramdrake 01:13, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Cat breeds are far different that patterns, but many people like to group things together and forget about them. That's why stereotypes exist. For instance, I have a "cow cat" and a tuxedo cat that are brother and sister. Whenever I have introduced them and told people they are a brother-sister pair, I always get "I didn't know that cow cats and tuxedos were the same breed." They're not breeds themselves, but they are a type of a breed (bicolor). That's what's happened to me in the past, and I feel you, it can be annoying. The best way to deal with it is to ignore their ignorance, as people constantly sterotype things and tell others info that may or may not be the most accurate. [[User:Emeraldcreeper99|Emerald]] ([[Usertalk:Emeraldcreeper99|If you can give me tips, please do so here]]) (talk) 18:14, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Agreed, the page does give the impression that tuxedo is a breed. Stub Mandrel (talk) 07:56, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Bicolour cat chart

I'm still trying to figure out where I first saw the image, but the cat bicolour chart has been lifted from another site and is thus most probably a copyvio. I'm just trying to remember where I saw the chart first.--Ramdrake 01:08, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Here is the website it is from: http://www.messybeast.com/bicolours.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.140.27.12 (talk) 01:52, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Revert of the bicolor cat image on top of the article

Would the anon who keeps inserting a copyvio image of a bicolor cat and removing the current image please come here to discuss the change rather than unilaterally reverting to their favorite image? Thanks! --Ramdrake 19:24, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Name of page may be becoming a misnomer

Stale

It just struck me that as information is added to this page, the various pattern names cropping up (especially van, mask-and-mantle and cap-and-saddle), along with the illustration, are not varieties of bicolor cat but really varieties of the piebald pattern in cat coloring: all these patterns also exist in tortoiseshell/calico cats (hence tricolor). Thus, I would suggest we change the name of this page to something like piebald pattern (cat) or somesuch; alternately, it may be appropriate to split the article into "piebald pattern" and "bicolor cat".--Ramdrake 14:22, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Image overload!

Wikipedia is not a collection of photographs or media files, might I humbly suggest migrating all the cat photos to Commons and create a gallery page there instead. Then slash the image use here down to what is needed to actualy ilustrate the different fur patterns and such, and then direct people to commons to look at the rest of the "look how cute my cat is" pictures like so: --Sherool (talk) 19:07, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Its good so that we can see just how many varieties of patterns there are. Theres a lot of possible patterns and we shouldnt restrict any variation. I can see how if the same cat is listed twice in the gallery we should remove one of the pictures (because it has the same pattern) but different cats have different patterns.

Sorry to butt in, but I'd like to point out that these patterns aren't bicolor patterns, but rather piebald patterns. They apply just the same to bicolor and tricolor cats (including tabbies of all stripes!).--Ramdrake 20:30, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree. 24 images of Tuxedo cats are insane. I'm removing all but one of each kind-- you can revert me but please, if you do, no more than 2-3 per pattern! Kuronue 16:21, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Ramdrake-- While I agree with the principle of your revert, kindly don't make my headache worse by advising people to add images ~_^ There are plenty as is and I'd rather see the number stay small by people replacing images than the number escalate yet again. Thanks. (I won't mess with your revert though, it doesn't matter to me WHICH images are there). Kuronue 00:36, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree, but what would be an acceptable alternative to give to people who misguidedly remove a picture from the gallery to insert their favorite picture in its stead? We know that's decidedly wrong, but what can we tell them is the right thing to do? I certainly don't mean to add to your headache, and if I did, I profusely apologize for it. I reverted on the basis that this is not a posting board where one simply removes a picture to make space for one's own, so pray tell me, what do you feel is the right guideline? And could we insert it in the header of the gallery?--Ramdrake 15:03, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I think we need more images of bicolor cats that arn't black and white; then we could have less black and white cats. Other than that I think we shuld leave the pics as is UNLESS someone has a picture that clearly shows the pattern better than one we have up, which will be a rare event. I agre it's not a posting board, but I've no idea what to tell you. Maybe "See Talk Page for details on picture policy"? I just had this idea that whoever did that will come back and say, "ok, I'll add it, and while I'm at it, here's 15 more! Because my cat is so cute!" (no offense to anyone) Kuronue 15:07, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I follow you. Any thoughts on the fact that the same (insert color(s) here) and white pattern also applies to tricolor and tabby cats (and more rarely even to colorpoint cats), and is in fact better called a piebald pattern when considered across all cat coloring schemes? That one's been bugging me for some time. Feedback is appreciated.--Ramdrake 15:18, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I see above you've been bothered by this, but I don't have an answer for you. I own a black and white cat, that's about the extent of my knowledge in the area (well, ok, I've read half a dozen cat books when I got the cat because I obesess about information). I think if we merged bicolor cat and tricolor cat into pibald cat and added redirects, the resulting article would be unweildy. Perhaps a section in piebald reading "main article: Bicolor cat" and a clarification at the top defining bicolor as a subset of the piebald pattern? That seems to be the wiki norm... Kuronue 15:31, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I see; Piebald is currently an article about horses. So create an article for piebald cat?

Another pic went up-- are either of those cats technically tuxedo? and it's kinda small. But I don't want to remove only the one pic... Kuronue 21:58, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, both are bicolor (black-white), but neither is a tuxedo: one is a mid-grade bicolor the other is a mid-to-high-grade harlequin.--Ramdrake 22:12, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Caption changed Kuronue 15:13, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

And they keep creeping back.. Kuronue 04:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Sheesh. Alright, new plan: From now on, when adding a picture, if it shows the same thing (according to the caption) as an older picture but does so better, replace the older one. If I see images that are redundant and have no explanatory caption, I'll remove. Kuronue 04:57, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Hello, at my wife's request I just uploaded a picture of our tuxedo cat as she felt that we have a picture that displays what is described in the "tuxedo" section of the article as the definition of a tuxedo. We captioned it "Textbook adult tuxedo cat". Please take a look and see if this is a warranted assessment. If it is agreed that this is not the case then it should probably be removed, but if it is then maybe it should stay? I ask for the experts' opinion in this matter. Cheers! Emackert (talk) 02:11, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

It is in fact a good image, though I'm not an expert; all I ask is that instead of adding the image, you replace a similar image (as I've done), to keep the gallery down to four images at any one time. Kuronue | Talk 16:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

All these many many photos of black-and-white cats, and not a single Hitler cat. Way too many photos in total. Flickrpedia! : ) 217.166.94.1 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:20, 11 November 2009 (UTC).

I removed 2 images of cats specifying with and without "blue eyes" (lost due to maturity). What is the point of this? Blue eyes are mentioned nowhere in the actual article. Unless they are specific to tuxedo cats I see no reason to include them. Also, I removed a redundant image of a "same cat at 3 months." There's already a picture of the cat at 4 months old! How could a second image a month earlier possibly add to the article?! 24.60.202.185 (talk) 00:31, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm removing the extraneous pictures once again. If you have a reasonable reason why we need the ones I'm removing, I'm more than happy to hear them. Otherwise, I'm just going to re-remove them Amccaugh (talk) 02:01, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

example

Resolved

My cat is the perfect example of of a Tuxedo cat and I would like to add a picture for referance as to what one would look like. Her markings are symetrical and are limited to her belly feet chest chin and nose. Should I add her picture so how a textbook example of what Tuxedo looks like? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.82.181.224 (talk) 23:43, 26 January 2007 (UTC).

Dorsal/ventral color distribution trend

It would seem that it is true that in bicolor cats, there is universally a trend that the majority of coloration is on the back (dorsal) side of the body, while the majority of white spotting or non-coloration is on the belly (ventral) side of the body. Yet I don't want to add this apparent fact as original research... So, does anybody know of a source that makes this observation? Matt Gies 15:45, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Kitlers

Talk 01:45, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

 – Wasn't relevant anyway Kuronue

Cats that resemble Adolf Hitler. No affiliation to Nazi party. see link: www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com

Moustik

Resolved

I know I've removed a picture by that name at least once before, if not more. What value does that particular picture add to the article? If you put something descriptive in the caption, or use it to replace a not-very-good image, then it can stay, I really don't care WHICH images are shown, but I want to avoid having more pictures than information. This isn't photobucket. Kuronue 14:02, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

removed Moustik again. Really, that picture shows nothing new that isn't shown better by the other examples, especially as it cuts off the feet so I can't use it to replace Sylvester's socks image Kuronue 06:06, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

"Iconic cultural image"

Stale

I think the page on bicolour cats should illustrate the various coat patterns with images of cats, rather than the tuxedo pattern being illustrated with a fuzzy drawing of a person dressed as a cat. Using real cat photos is in my opinion both clearer and more accurate, and I see from the above discussion that there is no shortage of pictures to choose from! Tim Vickers 03:23, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

It's not just a random person, as the text of the article explains. Anyway, it seems like a picture that illustrates something other than just what cats look like is useful and needed, because we currently have 19 images, 17 of which are pictures of cats! --Masamage ♫ 05:03, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

True, the "popular culture section" could either have this image or an image of Jess, but the images at the bottom could be better used to illustrate the sections of article itself, rather than being grouped in a section by themselves. Tim Vickers 05:38, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

My understanding is that they're down there to help suppress the image-turnover of people constantly coming in and replacing the existing images with their own cats, which happens a lot in every cat article (and the other pet articles, and the anatomy articles...). Keeping a gallery, especially a limited one, seems to make the page at least a little easier to maintain. --Masamage ♫ 05:47, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I see, bad design for the sake of editorial convenience. Well if I expand the text enough the present level of images will seem less excessive. Tim Vickers 05:55, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. :P --Masamage ♫ 07:50, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Agouti gene

Resolved

As I understand it (although this isn't my field) a recessive agouti gene produces all-dark colour (see ref 5). Does anybody know what sources were used for the statement in the lead that bicolour cats have a mutant agouti gene? Tim Vickers 04:50, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Never mind, got it. Tim Vickers 16:09, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Chloe adult.jpg

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BetacommandBot 21:55, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Removal of image gallery by User:Tmursch

I would like to start a discussion to see if there is any support for Tmursch's undiscussed removal of the gallery. For the record, I believe the gallery is informative and well-constructed, so should be kept. Any other opinions?--Ramdrake (talk) 21:09, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I think it has a useful purpose as well - showing the extent of variation in the appearance of these animals, but I'm open to hearing arguments to the contrary. Tim Vickers (talk) 21:11, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

The structured gallery was created as a concession against image overload - it shows variations that are only briefly described in the text, and I work hard to ensure that it remains small and each caption describes why this particular image is a particularly good specimen. Kuronue | Talk 00:08, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Dubious

The article says that cat coat color is determined by "fewer than ten genes". If one refers to Cat coat genetics, the number of genes identified, while still not that high, is certainly higher. This is why I tagged the sentence as dubious.--Ramdrake (talk) 00:28, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

That's what this source says. Tim Vickers (talk) 01:28, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the ref. I sit corrected.--Ramdrake (talk) 18:44, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I think the difference is that there are lots more genes involved in coat length, colour and style, but only a few that determine the distribution of colour into this particular pattern. Tim Vickers (talk) 21:39, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Old Link

1st link in the list opens at Highlander page. The new link is needed. --Zara-arush (talk) 13:42, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

photo

Stale

HOW CAN I UPLOAD MY PICTURE ON THE ARTICLE?!

Pointed, mink and sepia bicolors

The article omits the fact that pointed, mink and sepia genes can act jointly with bicolor genes giving for example bicolored Ragdoll or Snowshoe cats. What's more, in all 3 cases cats can be either solid or tabby(lynx) points/minks/sepias. 78.131.137.50 (talk) 00:00, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Too many pictures again...

The tuxedo picture section is getting out of hand. Previously there were 16. I deleted two that were patently not even tuxedo cats, but I'll leave it to someone else to choose which four pictures are the best representations of the pattern. Celestialteapot (talk) 15:44, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Why is a tuxedo cat also called "Billicat"? Citation?

I don't find anything to validate the statement "The tuxedo cat is also called Billicat". I see the citation is required to support the statement. Billicat seems informal/vague. The word "Billicat" should be removed if no citation can support the validity of the statement. Kimberry352 (talk) 01:23, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Image Overload - Again

As has been discussed before, images are overtaking this article again. This article has 27 images of bi-color cats, most of them of very similar cats. Sure, everyone wants their cat to be a Wikipedia star, but it serves no purpose and doesn't follow WP:NOTGALLERY. The Tabby article seems to be a good reference, with only 5 images and no "gallery" section. The images should preferably be integrated in to the article context. Unless there is a valid objection, I will start removing unneeded images. SpigotMap 02:42, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

But we LIKE pictures of cats!! 188.223.19.26 (talk) 22:10, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Anyone watching this talk page? To the above user, isn't there more love for pictures of cats on Reddit or 4chan? Just saying.

There's still the "gallery" section. I think the most logical thing to do would be to merge the gallery with the "grades 1-10 of bicolor cats" section and clean it up. There's that image there which is the only thing really showing what these grades are, despite these grades being "identifiable". By the way I'd be willing to convert that image to SVG but to be honest it looks like pictures of skinned cat hides which is really not too pleasant, maybe its just me.

I think we should probably have a short description of each or most grades in a bulleted list, if they are in fact identifiable. Maybe we should get rid of the diagram of grades 1-10 and use the actual cat pictures from the gallery section for some of the more relevant grades. I don't really have enough knowledge on the topic to do this. Quincyjo (talk) 22:01, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

I took the liberty of removing a few more images from the gallery that weren't obviously demonstrating something not covered by other images, and were technically inferior. --Vilding1 (talk) 21:05, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

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Mr. Mistoffelees

Mr. Mistoffelees is a cat from the musical CATS that hold magical powers. Mr. Mistoffelees is also a tuxedo cat. Tuxedo cats are said to hold magical powers so that is why Mr. Mistoffelees has those magical powers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.130.249.10 (talk) 15:52, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

Kitty

the long haired tuxedo cat walking in the grass looks just like my kitty — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.152.3.11 (talk) 18:39, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

"Bicolor coat pattern" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Bicolor coat pattern and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 January 28#Bicolor coat pattern until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 20:16, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Lead images

The addition of File:Black and white bicolor cat.jpg to the lead is not an improvement. We have a good lead image, and this image is just a bad picture of someone's pet. Meters (talk) 21:56, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

sebrina the teenage witch

Why does it mention Salem the cat, and then say Salem is not a bi-color cat 71.17.17.101 (talk) 02:19, 19 June 2023 (UTC)