Talk:Victor Lewis-Smith

Where'd he go?

I only just found out he left the Standard 3 years ago and being from Scotland I have limited access to his writing. Does anyone know what he's doing now? Thanks...Trip2themoon (talk) 03:38, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

There was a rumour he was going to do the restaurant reviews for the Observer/Guardian but that never appeared to happen. As far as Television Production goes I had heard that he was only going to make theatrical relaeses a la Michael Moore. He made one with Keith allen about the Princess Diana inquiry as reported in Variety (http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=print_story&articleid=VR1117985753&categoryid=1043) but I gather it had no interested buyers when they took it to Cannes, so it died without trace. As for TV - I think he may have sadly burned all his bridges with the commissioning editors by now - still there's plenty of his old stuff on You Tube! Tiswas20 (talk) 16:43, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Out of date

There is very old info here, the details of his work on Bach are all very dated, and explicitly so e.g.: The series started on BBC2 in June 2003, and a third tranche of programmes has just (July 2007) been completed and awaits scheduling.

Malice

A brief perusal of the edit history indicates clear malice, emanating probably from someone who has been on the receiving end of a VLS review, or (I am fairly sure) the subject of one of his documentaries. The clues are all there!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clemmywemmy (talk • contribs) 18:21, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Not necessarily malice? Help needed.

I have looked at the history of this article and this Talk page. Wow! Here are some comments to help experienced editors tackle the multiple problems (I will try contacting some admins in the hope that this page gets some attention). There seems to be some funny business going on (maybe not such a surprise: this article is about a comedian and hoaxer so jokers of various kinds might well be attracted to it).

CITATIONS – The article has been tagged since April 2007 as needing more citations, yet there is still an obvious problem. Plenty needs sourcing.

HIDDEN INFO – There is a fair amount of interesting material buried in the archive of this Talk page (e.g.discussions of dodgy editing by those connected to/employed by Victor Lewis Smith; an as yet unpublished biography; his firing from the BBC and other relevant matters). Here are two different links to the same archive - well worth looking at if you are interested in Smith or the way this article has been put together:- [1], [2]

RECENT EDITS –

(Birth date) An anonymous editor has recently repeatedly tried to insert a Sheffield 1960 birth date into the article. This has been repeatedly removed, no doubt because it is unsourced (early versions of this page have another unsourced birth year of 1961 – also removed). In fact Victor Lewis Smith was born plain Victor Smith (his mother Norma’s maiden name of Lewis being added later) on 12 May 1957 in Ilford, Essex – see "Index entry". (FreeBMD. ONS).. This suggests the article should in fact be titled Victor Lewis Smith, without the hyphen.

(Sockpuppets?) There have been numerous recent edits by User:Clemmywemmy and User:Dora63, seeking to remove critical material from the article. The edit history of User:Clemmywemmy shows only edits to this article while the edit history of User:Dora63 shows a focus on this article, as well as In Confidence (a TV series produced by Smith; Keith Allen (a frequent collaborator of Smith’s); and Unlawful Killing (a film written by Smith).

(What's missing) For example User:Clemmywemmy removed well sourced references to Smith being fired from the BBC; being succeeded by Chris Morris; repeatedly reusing his own material; and to a recent TV programme produced by Smith being "clumsy, witless and pleased with itself to the point of onanism" (this quote being sourced to the TV critic of The Sunday Times, A.A. Gill).

Also removed by User:Clemmywemmy was an expressive quote from The Guardian drawing attention to conflicting opinions expressed by Smith about BBC executive Alan Yentob:

Monkey was astounded to read Victor Lewis-Smith's column in the Evening Standard yesterday. It reviewed BBC arts show Imagine's episode about Never Mind the Buzzcocks. But the bile dripped off the pages when it came to presenter and BBC creative director Alan Yentob...Monkey remembers someone at the Daily Mirror in March 1999 having a vastly different view of the lovely Alan. "My money is on Alan Yentob for [BBC] director general, because he's not only proved himself to be an excellent programme maker and shrewd channel controller, but is also respected by the public, and has an unusually good sense of humour, as his Red Nose Day appearances have confirmed. Believe me, if DGs were elected by the people, then Yentob would win in a landslide." And the author of that glowing praise? None other than a certain journalist and, let's not forget, independent TV producer, Victor Lewis-Smith. What can have made him change his mind?

CALM DOWN DEAR, IT'S ONLY A WIKIPEDIA PAGE!

Thank you so much to the anonymous editor above for demonstrating so very precisely the issue I raise about malice on VLS' pages. I too invite an experienced editor to analyse the above author's activities, because it's obviously been infecting the main article and talk pages for many years. If anyone is a sockpuppet, it is the author of the above. Actually socktroll might be a better word.

I have BINNED (aka removed) the links to unpublished primary sources which are un- wikpedian for a biography of a living person. Revisits (presumably in the hope of eventual reinsertion) of tendentious quotes from ancient newspaper gossip columns (also un-wikipedian and probably sold to newspapers by the very editor who sites them) and the revisiting of a fictional VLS biography which was supposed to be published in 2006 (and whose “authors” links have been blocked by numerous contributors) is absurd. Also dredged up are the worst extracts from bad reviews (without balance provided), and a whole load of weasel words. Talk pages are not lavatory walls to be scribbled on by the disgruntled. Vandalism is vandalism however eloquent.

By the way, while I admire his writing, I am no apologist for VLS. I am currently writing a book about British journalists, and his entry will be far from flattering (though it will be fair) and its footnotes will include accurate and detailed biographical details. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Clemmywemmy (talk • contribs) 13:01, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Will the real Lewis-Smith please stand up?

So are we to assume that the previous two editors (who it seems have been amending this wikipedia entry for some time according to their own personal agendas) are none other than Benjamin Pell and Victor Lewis-Smith?

Certainly User:Clemmywemmy seems to be accusing the previous author of being Benjamin Pell and if User:Clemmywemmy is not Lewis-Smith then he's doing a very good impression of him (and incidentally amending this entry to resemble a well-crafted resume at the same time.)

If you are both who you appear to be please have the decency to identify yourselves as such, or better still follow the wikipedia NPOV and COI policies and leave the editing of this entry to those who don't have either an axe to grind or a career to promote. (Thimblywimbly (talk) 15:55, 25 June 2012 (UTC)).

Bad fact

Coming back to this article after a long break I see someone has inserted another wrong birth date into the article, as usual without any references. A confirmed sockpuppet removed the text below from this Talk page but it's helpful in dealing with the birthday:-

An anonymous editor has recently repeatedly tried to insert a Sheffield 1960 birth date into the article. This has been repeatedly removed, no doubt because it is unsourced (early versions of this page have another unsourced birth year of 1961 – also removed). In fact Victor Lewis Smith was born plain Victor Smith (his mother Norma’s maiden name of Lewis being added later) on 12 May 1957 in Ilford, Essex – see "Index entry". (FreeBMD. ONS).. This suggests the article should in fact be titled Victor Lewis Smith, without the hyphen.

A cross check shows that Victor Smith was born in Ilford on 12 May 1957, son of Geoffrey Smith and Norma Lewis. So I will correct the date in the article.

Also given that the old nonsense seems to have started again I will now go back through the article's history to see what can be done to improve it. VLSCheck (talk) 13:21, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

We could really use a better source than "someone called Victor L Smith was born to a mother with the surname Lewis on this date". There's nothing in that source to confirm this is the same person as the TV critic. --McGeddon (talk) 13:32, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

McGeddon is right

I agree with McGeddon. The debate about when he was born has gone on for years and I have seen various primary sources pulled out and dropped. VLS seldom gives interviews and those I have seen don't ask his age. Use of primary sources contravens the strict Wikipedian rules about BLP. See "Identifying reliable sources". So I remove this current version. Working in British comedy biography, I have seen documents that suggest that one half of his family is Italian. And I am delving a bit more. I will keep an eye on this entry. Snickarious (talk) 22:39, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Who Would be a Critic?

I have been looking into the history of the VLS page. By any standards, it has been the subject of relentless attack over the years. This talk page alone gives a measure of that. I also notice that the VLS page was virtually decimated by a contributor who has been subsequently permanently blocked from Wikipedia. I will attempt to replace some of the material that seems to have been cut in a frenzy. These critics seem to get a rough Wiki ride and probably from those they have attacked. It needs looking into. For example, see the history of AA Gill's page! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gavelboy (talk • contribs) 12:47, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

(Redacted personal attack by anonymous editor) 78.157.215.73 (talk) 13:33, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Once again - are we or are we not reading the words of Victor Lewis smith and Benjamin Pell here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thimblywimbly (talk • contribs) 13:55, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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Unsourced in lead

Someone keeps adding unsourced material, not mentioned in the article, to the lead. And then reverting when it is (correctly) removed.

Please use appropriate secondary sources (as per Wikipedia editing norms); provide the reference for anything you add; include such material first in the main article; and then summarise in the lead. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.150.62.177 (talk) 17:48, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

What about his body of work ?

Looking at the edit history of the VLS entry over the years, he's obviously been subjected to vandalism and more ominously his considerable body of work has been airbrushed out. Where's all the Radio 4 stuff? Radio 1? Dozens of TV and Radio programmes that are just not mentioned? He was a TV critic and I see spiteful revenge editing here. I'll try to address that in the coming months. This very page is littered with sideswipes. Schitterend (talk) 19:10, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm going through the Radio Times archive over the coming months. That and the TV Times are the only real sources. It's obvious that he never played the "fame game". Not interested in doing interviews. Considering the amount of writing he did for The Standard and Mirror over the decades it's a miracle he did so much other work. Documentaries and music series. Considering that his entry is pretty small and has been reduced and reduced over the years. It looks like malice to me. Bad Karma maybe if you are dishing out vicious critiques. He's a much bigger supplier to Private Eye than people know. I have that from a reliable source. Though he's definitely not Square Eyes. He gave Ian Hislop his first break on the BBC and they are pretty close pals. Gavelboy (talk) 20:21, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

Sigh

Here we go again. This person is clearly controversial, strong views in favour, strong views against. The edit history of this article is bumpy.

He’s also a known hoaxer with a history of false names (nothing controversial here, he boasts repeatedly of this throughout his career). He has a notable interest in Wikipedia, both in terms of mucking about (sockpuppets, “funny” edits) and of course he’s particularly intetested in this article.

If Gavelboy - who mainly edits this article - is getting busy with new material, we can expect more disruption as this triggers responses. Admins might like to keep an eye on this and I’ll try and copy this alert on an appropriate noticeboard. 95.146.83.181 (talk) 11:37, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

"Sigh" indeed. Just to remind you that these talk pages are subject to the same strictures as the main pages. I'd be interested in seeing proof of the sockpuppetry etc. you suggest emanates from the subject? As for the hoaxing, site sources from the usual reliable one. It's in the public domain that he made hoax calls on his R1 shows back in the 80s, but since then, I see no evidence. What I do see, and why I am interested the history of edits on his page, is because of so many blatant attempts at eradicating / airbrush a varied career that spans decades. Until recently his banner title was "British DJ"! That's intentionally demeaning. I believe this negative editing mostly came from a single source and we're looking into that.

I do not "mainly edit" this article. I edit many. And I do so with what I always hope to be a balanced POV. I don't hold a candle for the subject, but I do know foul play when I see it. And others are seeing that too.Gavelboy (talk) 10:15, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Birth date from Companies House: 12 May 1959

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02541839/officers

Victor Lewis-Smith (with hyphen) is listed as director of Associated Rediffusion, born May 1959 106.254.29.174 (talk) 11:49, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

And page three of this PDF says the birthday of Victor Lewis Smith (no hyphen, but Lewis Smith given as surname) was 12 May 1959

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/89iyLbvtdv6vmK2NRgFhJN4hyuToYRgOuhk92PFhNGQ/application-pdf?X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=ASIAWRGBDBV3OWEDOCMC%2F20221213%2Feu-west-2%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&X-Amz-Date=20221213T115205Z&X-Amz-Expires=60&X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEJL%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEaCWV1LXdlc3QtMiJGMEQCIE9fYwMIEHYY9ITzC3EIY3O0V83s3lEhv0qNid8DeOjYAiBZAGbMvsrLsOo2kVnk39ZWtg1DhbnMNZc1dOInE0FJJCrWBAi7%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F8BEAQaDDQ0OTIyOTAzMjgyMiIMQRd2WaXZKNjaSACvKqoEMX8Y%2Fj7MX%2F%2FBwHNcA0Y0PKMKh4cNc62pKf7okYRCvneDs4%2BcRdBLIcN5zxhuGrUY39lpP8FIXYZb6OjHBu6VZl5NqOIaSGlCY0ZuEcd2IvVXb0fjlZAYI8vSDkZ%2F%2Faaq35zlRz3vlYP8DPXrdHvV2W6eCR8IPlT3DIQ4tLy2%2BqSDgAM43v5zjmgCeZZRXOKWLGgrSyOR8BkRUTzrG39tANOk4vagS0sEFJ1FageJhHRJNiqYS%2BW2Lgzgk%2BXGHXhUc3dTWpVFpa68wz55wb9B7%2Bjlh64R%2FivkViXC%2BzcItfdJD8a3pQP8XaMGFTWMb6hLbQdHoyYoCB3cAF6cZ%2FySSZeOwqwx5AEC2xBaVPGCS2EY14jwnnDAbbDmzzxjPry1Ld2nrcqe7wJz78aH%2B8BM13bWUcO0DB8cTHrwFCz7aH2JbEgOn7jR6XGzZnZJoQgxePis2SKRwD8iJcja32gtapG69WSLn0lspfNaHsrGce9c86tI2oZhPLcxRJzRy59YPMLCWEAqfFZCx%2BwAhWPG%2FJe1Ql4Ck%2BIiqkai%2BukcSyTB6wQE%2F2dQsnj1kkn53x0tcRCs2DXAgCwin6Dx30dPuqpYuPESUfL4SRXg2BJmVKnsIAzzlbV1n4BCv6eIPI%2FIDiuLQLNwUDetFc5W6Ah%2BPe3532xMaI2fxYqCjWhYbPQaDvlblAlup9PlJ61dde0yAJazewUYqOPVYfthw5iWQBCZBwC8MNG%2FPIsw5JLhnAY6qgEaSl2X3xrBUoIBBlZ62W8GP3%2BwaapfU92Z8r4b6RUVX0wMHUHFWOUnUjgIjU63LT1TpBpobHa%2BxmenscQGXMtlJMYM00w6rPkYhYkI01ATVTc9y74BhcodTO5KI2j%2FHRJXN1gnFPUgHkSvC00o8LMIc6rDsPwqZnWdiErvX69qwgBvJ3hZ0NiiMIygzgJNsmCKJecOUdrACoBcNI%2Fm67m%2BGB2lljZmkMAzDg%3D%3D&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D%22companies_house_document.pdf%22&X-Amz-Signature=5d59b0311b106315799e60d03420a8c649d6474af7b5be625418127ae0494336 106.254.29.174 (talk) 11:55, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Here we go again. This has been going on for years, for at least two reasons connected with the subject of the article. One, this man liked to sow mischief, pretend to be other people and engage in all kinds of deception, sometimes amusingly, sometimes less so (there is a Wikipedia history of his being censured for sockpuppetting in relation to this article and others). Second, for whatever reason he seems to have had hang ups about his age and background. As I write I am staring at a copy of his birth certificate (WP:NOR but this is only a Talk page): Victor Smith, born in Ilford, Essex, of Geoffrey Smith and Elizabeth Smith formerly Lewis, on 17 May 1957. People thought his middle name (Lewis, his mother's maiden name) was part of some grand surname, but it wasn't. However by the time of his marriage in 1993 (I have that document as well) he gave his surname as Lewis-Smith. Given his lifelong fascination with falsifying documents (including some amusing entries in reference works) it would not be surprising if the paperwork he completed for Companies House and elsewhere was less than wholly accurate. 31.124.106.107 (talk) 13:27, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Apologies for a slip. The date on his birth certificate is that given by the Daily Telegraph (and as currently used in the article). It is shown as 12 May 1957 (the certificate was registered on 17 May 1957, I was looking at the wrong column). 31.124.106.107 (talk) 13:33, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Tweets

His Twitter account - @tvoffal - went quiet in 2019 and all now seems to have been deleted. But some of his Tweets have been archived here (and elsewhere on the Wayback Machine):-

https://web.archive.org/web/20180715000000*/Twitter.com/tvoffal

Just in case this might be useful for those who want to work on improving the article.

31.124.106.107 (talk) 15:06, 14 December 2022 (UTC)