Talk:Martenitsa

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on March 1, 2005, March 1, 2006, March 1, 2007, March 1, 2008, March 1, 2009, and March 1, 2010.

Untitled[edit]

There is also a page about Martenitza. Please agree on one transcription of мартеница and try to unite or bring together the two articles. Under what licence is the picture of the marteniza? dobre doshli from germany :) --gluon, 25-10-2004

Saint Hubert[edit]

I can't find and connection between Baba Marta and this "The Legend of Saint Hubert" on either this article of the Hubert article. Why is that link here? Gpetrov (talk) 15:44, 2 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Debate?![edit]

" If and how these two holidays are related is still a matter of debate between Bulgarian and Romanian ethnologists."

This statement is useless in the article: 1. it does not state a relevant fact. 2. do we have anything to proove that ethnologists debate over it or is it only one romanian having problems with his neigbour bulgarian cousin?

This sentence should be removed from the article and put in the discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.91.45.231 (talk) 12:00, 3 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Romanian mărţişor[edit]

unique Bulgarian tradition

hmm... Not very unique, since Romanians have it too. :-)

[has origin] in the establishment of the Bulgarian state in 681 AD.

Romanians have other legends, of course, related to our own history. I've heard things like a tribute to the Roman god Mars (Latin: Marte), with red and white being symbols peace and war. And of course, the legends of Baba Dochia", which some link it to Dacia. And of course, the usual stuff about "Rejuvenation. Rebirth. Everything's blooming. All that crap."* :-) Bogdan | Talk 19:14, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

George Constanza :-)

Martenitsa is proto-bulgarian only in the nationalistic minds of bulgarians. Martenitsa comes from the vlach(romanian) martisor!!!!

Are you sure you didn't take it from us when your lands were part of the medieval Bulgarian Empire? I mean, you had (and some of you still have) Slavic names and used Old Church Slavonic (Old Bulgarian)... why not accept a tradition? This is far more likely to me than your version. But anyway, I don't say this being convinced or sure of its correctness, I just note what I find more probable. I've never heard of your tradition before in fact, so no offence. --Martyr 17:47, 8 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"Ethnologists agree that this custom was introduced in Romania by the Bulgarians, as a significant part of the modern Romanian lands were part of the Bulgarian Empire." - What ethnologists? Bulgarian ethnologists? Just because you learned this in school doesn't mean it's true. I think it's safe to say that both our countries have seen a fare share of nationalistic indoctrination. Please abstain from stepping in the murky watters of possible nationalistic propaganda without solid scientific refferences. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yang (talk • contribs) 16:30, 1 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Maslenitsa/Mărţişor?[edit]

NB: The title of this section was changed from 'Maslenitsa' to 'Martisor' at some point in the discussion, rendering the below confusing at best. 138.38.106.191 (talk) 11:08, 25 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

These are two different traditions that only sound the same. Don't merge!

How can they be different if they look alike, both are celebrated on the 1st of March, both are associated with Spring, they have almost the same name, and finally they both are related to one region: the Balkan peninsula? It is obvious that they have one predecessor and should be described in one article. It is only due to political reasons that there are two separate articles now. Astat bg 10:57, 24 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They should be merged, because they clearly have the same origin. The funny thing is the origin is unknown, but they are the same. The single article could explain the differences and different views on the subject. --Bollweevil 15:05, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

These are two different traditions. I don't know if they have a common root, but they are different. Bulgarian Martenitsa is similar to Romanian martisor. If anything, those two could merge, but even they can't, because Romanians and Bulgarians disagree on the origin of the tradition. I'm not sure what Maslenitsa has to do with all this. We don't specifically eat pancakes to celebrate the tradition and we don't fast. Neither do the Bulgarians. --Candide, or Optimism 16:58, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your feedback. Let's see what others think. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 17:02, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is this where I'm supposed to leave a comment? Sorry if it isn't. You can move this wherever it belongs. So anyway I'm Bulgarian and I can tell you that Martenitsa and Maslenitsa are two VERY different things and have NOTHING in common so it would be wrong to merge the two. And Maslenitsa is a Russian tradition anyways! We don't have that. (Juriy, 1 March 2006)

I have grown close to the border with Romania, in the town of Vidin. The Romanians call it there Bulgarian tradition, so this must be the truth. Besides the tradition, according to fellows from Romania is not all over the country, but in the Southern part, where clearly Bulgarian influance was to be blamed :-)

And no! These have nothing to do with each other, so DO NOT MERGE!

The tradition is in the entire country, but with small differences. In Moldavia, for instance, martisor are given to both sexes, while in Wallachia, martisor is usually given only to females. And no, Romanians don't say that the tradition is of Bulgarian origin. --Candide, or Optimism 05:41, 2 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just like our buddy George up there huh...Nationalistic minds he says, come on give me a break... Juriy, 3 March 2006

What I did not get is - what is the relation between Martenitsa and Maslenitsa? Why it should be merged with the Russian tradition? They have nothing in common... cheers, Alexander, Bulgaria

Obviously, they are they same tradition: the celebration of the end of winter and the beginning of spring. Only the precise date and the associated rituals differ. The Seventh Taylor (talk) 22:33, 9 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm German, living in Bulgaria, frequently travelling to Romania. The traditions are different, especially with one respect: the name. Both articles clearly state the relation between the traditions in a friendly manner, and both articles describe the tradition in the respective country. Why merge and flatten cultural variations in European Regions? --GFlohr (talk) 21:20, 25 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please refrain from unsubstantiated claims[edit]

I have deleted a controversial and, frankly, unrelated stuff about some distant Indian custom. Please do not resurrect it since it is unsupported by any evidence accepted by main-stream historians and researchers.

In future, to avoid deletion, refrain from including disputable materials or presenting as facts unsubstantiated claims, even if they may appeal to your imagination. Let us make Wikipedia a trustworthy and faithful source of knowledge (not another blog, where personal opinions, rather than facts are presented to unsuspecting public).

Plamka —Preceding unsigned comment added by Plamka (talk • contribs) 21:26, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have deleted your interpretation of my contribution as it seems that the only reason you have put it there is not to present "trustworthy material" or contribute in any way, but to make yourself feel good about you.

Whether an opinion is related or controversial is purely question of wording - the idea of Wikipedia is to contribute not offend which is why Wikipedia is accesible to all and editable. However, I understand now that it is in fact more about defending your contribution from someone like yourself as a result of which, frankly, I just can not be bothered to contribute. All the best! KD

Please refrain from unsubstantiated claims-2[edit]

I am about to delete the section on the "Alternative Theory" because it is not substantiated with any references and it is not known to the main-stream history science. Please either provide some justification for the contents of this section or it will be deleted soon.

As a general rule: please refrain from publishing here your own personal original research -- please only include here verifiable facts. Fanciful ideas, which may appear to your imagination, are not necessarily truthful and useful information on the subject. The purpose of Wikipedia is to inform the reader, not to be used for publishing unsubstantiated personal beliefs or fancies (Wikipedia must not be turned into a blog, where all opinions matter -- it must remain an encyclopedia, where only proven facts matter).

Thanks for your understanding -- together we will make this a more useful article.

Plamen Grozdanov (talk) 13:33, 3 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Historians!?[edit]

Please, refrain from using that word when writing about the fancy hypothesis of amateurs! It's an insult to the intelligence of my professional colleagues who have studied for decades at universities and know better than to write fiction once they graduate! (this refers to the article, not to this page) Ivan Marinov (talk) 07:58, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Martenitsa[edit]

---Old Bulgarians believed in an evil natural force called "loshotia“ (devilry), which came to life in springtime. In popular belief, March 1 marks the beginning of spring. People would ascribe magical powers to the martenitsa, protecting them from “loshotia", i.e. diseases and “the evil eye“. The martenitsa should be worn until the first sighting of a stork and should then be tied to a budding or green tree. According to some beliefs, the martenitsa is connected with Khan Asparuh (credited with founding the Bulgarian state) and with the year of establishment of the First Bulgarian Empire (681 AD). One of these legends tells that when the Bulgars (Proto-Bulgarians) reached the Danube River plain, they were enchanted with the place and decided to settle there. After the newly-formed state was proclaimed, the Khan wanted to make an offering to the supreme god Tangra. By tradition, the sacrificial pile was to be lit with a sprig of dry dill, but there was no dill to be found. While Khan Asparuh wondered what to do, a falcon perched on his shoulder with a sprig of dill hanging from its leg, fastened with a piece of white thread stained in red.

It was sent by Huba, Asparuh"s sister, who had remained in their father"s (Khan Kubrat’s) palace. Huba had had a dream about her brother"s predicament and sent the sprig of dill fastened with a piece of white woollen thread. During the long flight, however, the falcon"s wing was rubbed sore and stained the white yarn with blood. So Khan Asparuh received the sprig fastened with white and red yarn. He lit the fire according to the tradition and adorned himself with the thread as a health charm. Bulgarians have adorned their loved ones with white and red yarn on March 1 ever since.

81.183.245.214 (talk) 13:20, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is a 20th century written narrative, presented in popular culture as a Bulgar legend. It is mentioned in the section "Origin". Jingiby (talk) 13:25, 23 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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