Wikipedia:Deletion review
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For RfCs, community discussions, and to review closes of other reviews: |
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Deletion review (DRV) is for reviewing speedy deletions and outcomes of deletion discussions. This includes appeals to delete pages kept after a prior discussion.
If you are considering a request for a deletion review, please read the "Purpose" section below to make sure that is what you wish to do. Then, follow the instructions below.
Purpose
Deletion review may be used:
- if someone believes the closer of a deletion discussion interpreted the consensus incorrectly;
- if a speedy deletion was done outside of the criteria or is otherwise disputed;
- if significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page;
- if a page has been wrongly deleted with no way to tell what exactly was deleted; or
- if there were substantial procedural errors in the deletion discussion or speedy deletion.
Deletion review should not be used:
- because of a disagreement with the deletion discussion's outcome that does not involve the closer's judgment (a page may be renominated after a reasonable timeframe);
- (This point formerly required first consulting the deleting admin if possible. As per this discussion an editor is not required to consult the closer of a deletion discussion (or the deleting admin for a speedy deletion) before starting a deletion review. However doing so is good practice, and can often save time and effort for all concerned. Notifying the closer is required.)
- to point out other pages that have or have not been deleted (as each page is different and stands or falls on its own merits);
- to challenge an article's deletion via the proposed deletion process, or to have the history of a deleted page restored behind a new, improved version of the page, called a history-only undeletion (please go to Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion for these);
- to repeat arguments already made in the deletion discussion;
- to argue technicalities (such as a deletion discussion being closed ten minutes early);
- to request that previously deleted content be used on other pages (please go to Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion for these requests);
- to attack other editors, cast aspersions, or make accusations of bias (such requests may be speedily closed);
- for uncontroversial undeletions, such as undeleting a very old article where substantial new sources have subsequently arisen. Use Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion instead. (If any editor objects to the undeletion, then it is considered controversial and this forum may be used.)
- to ask for permission to write a new version of a page which was deleted, unless it has been protected against creation. In general you don't need anyone's permission to recreate a deleted page, if your new version does not qualify for deletion then it will not be deleted.
Copyright violating, libelous, or otherwise prohibited content will not be restored.
Instructions
Before listing a review request, please:
- Consider attempting to discuss the matter with the closer as this could resolve the matter more quickly. There could have been a mistake, miscommunication, or misunderstanding, and a full review may not be needed. Such discussion also gives the closer the opportunity to clarify the reasoning behind a decision.
- Check that it is not on the list of perennial requests. Repeated requests every time some new, tiny snippet appears on the web have a tendency to be counter-productive. It is almost always best to play the waiting game unless you can decisively overcome the issues identified at deletion.
Steps to list a new deletion review
 | If your request is completely non-controversial (e.g., restoring an article deleted with a PROD, restoring an image deleted for lack of adequate licensing information, asking that the history be emailed to you, etc), please use Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion instead. |
| 1. |
and paste the template skeleton at the top of the discussions (but not at the top of the page). Then fill in {{subst:drv2
|page=File:Foo.png
|xfd_page=Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 February 19#Foo.png
|article=Foo
|reason=
}} ~~~~
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| 2. |
Inform the editor who closed the deletion discussion by adding the following on their user talk page:
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| 3. |
For nominations to overturn and delete a page previously kept, attach |
| 4. |
Leave notice of the deletion review outside of and above the original deletion discussion:
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Commenting in a deletion review
Any editor may express their opinion about an article or file being considered for deletion review. In the deletion review discussion, please type one of the following opinions preceded by an asterisk (*) and surrounded by three apostrophes (''') on either side. If you have additional thoughts to share, you may type this after the opinion. Place four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your entry, which should be placed below the entries of any previous editors:
- Endorse the original closing decision; or
- Relist on the relevant deletion forum (usually Articles for deletion); or
- List, if the page was speedy deleted outside of the established criteria and you believe it needs a full discussion at the appropriate forum to decide if it should be deleted; or
- Overturn the original decision and optionally an (action) per the Guide to deletion. For a keep decision, the default action associated with overturning is delete and vice versa. If an editor desires some action other than the default, they should make this clear; or
- Allow recreation of the page if new information is presented and deemed sufficient to permit recreation.
- Some consider it a courtesy, to other DRV participants, to indicate your prior involvements with the deletion discussion or the topic.
| Examples of opinions for an article that had been deleted |
| *'''Endorse''' The original closing decision looks like it was sound, no reason shown here to overturn it. ~~~~ |
| *'''Relist''' A new discussion at AfD should bring a more thorough discussion, given the new information shown here. ~~~~ |
| *'''Allow recreation''' The new information provided looks like it justifies recreation of the article from scratch if there is anyone willing to do the work. ~~~~ |
| *'''List''' Article was speedied without discussion, criteria given did not match the problem, full discussion at AfD looks warranted. ~~~~ |
| *'''Overturn and merge''' The article is a content fork, should have been merged into existing article on this topic rather than deleted. ~~~~ |
| *'''Overturn and userfy''' Needs more development in userspace before being published again, but the subject meets our notability criteria. ~~~~ |
| *'''Overturn''' Original deletion decision was not consistent with current policies. ~~~~ |
Remember that deletion review is not an opportunity to (re-)express your opinion on the content in question. It is an opportunity to correct errors in process (in the absence of significant new information), and thus the action specified should be the editor's feeling of the correct interpretation of the debate.
The presentation of new information about the content should be prefaced by Relist, rather than Overturn and (action). This information can then be more fully evaluated in its proper deletion discussion forum. Allow recreation is an alternative in such cases.
Temporary undeletion
Admins participating in deletion reviews are routinely requested to restore deleted pages under review and replace the content with the {{TempUndelete}} template, leaving the history for review by everyone. However, copyright violations and violations of the policy on biographies of living persons should not be restored.
Closing reviews
A nominated page should remain on deletion review for at least seven days, unless the nomination was a proposed deletion. After seven days, an administrator will determine whether a consensus exists. If that consensus is to undelete, the admin should follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Administrator instructions. If the consensus was to relist, the page should be relisted at the appropriate forum. If the consensus was that the deletion was endorsed, the discussion should be closed with the consensus documented.
If the administrator closes the deletion review as no consensus, the outcome should generally be the same as if the decision was endorsed. However:
- If the decision under appeal was a speedy deletion, the page(s) in question should be restored, as it indicates the deletion was not uncontroversial. The closer, or any editor, may then proceed to nominate the page at the appropriate deletion discussion forum, if they so choose.
- If the decision under appeal was an XfD close, the closer may, at their discretion, relist the page(s) at the relevant XfD.
Ideally all closes should be made by an administrator to ensure that what is effectively the final appeal is applied consistently and fairly but in cases where the outcome is patently obvious or where a discussion has not been closed in good time it is permissible for a non-admin (ideally a DRV regular) to close discussions. Non-consensus closes should be avoided by non-admins unless they are absolutely unavoidable and the closer is sufficiently experienced at DRV to make that call. (Hint: if you are not sure that you have enough DRV experience then you don't.)
Speedy closes
- Objections to a proposed deletion can be processed immediately as though they were a request at Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion
- Where the closer of a deletion discussion realizes their close was wrong, and nobody has endorsed, the closer may speedily close as overturn. They should fully reverse their close, restoring any deleted pages if appropriate.
- Where the nominator of a DRV wishes to withdraw their nomination, and nobody else has recommended any outcome other than endorse, the nominator may speedily close as "endorse" (or ask someone else to do so on their behalf).
- Certain discussions may be closed without result if there is no prospect of success (e.g. disruptive nominations, if the nominator is repeatedly nominating the same page, or the page is listed at WP:DEEPER). These will usually be marked as "administrative close".
30 April 2024
Fathima Thahiliya
Who previously created this page and other editors who shared it in the deletion discussion did not have the quality pass to retain it, so this page has been removed, and as of today, this page is eligible for a new political position WP:NPOL or (officeholder), WP:GNG. category, which should be moved to draft to be edited and moved to the main page ~~ Spworld2 talk 01:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse AfD, which is three years old. Did you ask @Daniel: for a draft? It's unclear why we're here when there's no protection limiting a new article from being created. Star Mississippi 11:59, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hi SM, thanks for the ping - this is the first time I'm aware of this DRV. It definitely was not discussed with me prior (noting that this is 'optional', although definitely encouraged by Wikipedia:Deletion review#Instructions). That being said, what isn't optional is the notification to the XfD closer, which is mandatory and required per step 2 of 'Steps to list a new deletion review'. Unfortunately, this wasn't done by the applicant. Daniel (talk) 19:39, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse original AfD as closed. I'm not sure what the appellant means by,
should be moved to draft
. Our policies have a long list of cases when an article should generally not be draftified, and some when it can, but no case where it should. If the subject's status has changed such that it now meets our notability guidelines, an article can be created, either in mainspace or in draft, and no one is stopping the appellant from doing so. If the subject's status has not changed since the AfD, draftifying is a waste of time. Owen× ☎ 12:41, 30 April 2024 (UTC) - Endorse the 3-year-old close. We get a number of requests to restore a deleted article to draft, possibly because the requester wants to start with something rather than from scratch. When the original article was found not to meet notability or not to be based on significant coverage, sometimes it really is better to start from scratch. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:41, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
Template:Historical American Documents
Consensus for splitting was clear and was initially given by closing editor here and in previous discussion Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 March 12#Template:Signers of the U.S. Declaration of Independence, yet refusal to accept this consensus and consistent WP:BLUDGEONING by a certain editor at Template talk:Historical American Documents seems to have overturned and derailed the correct outcome --woodensuperman 06:42, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Please note that the nominator did not first discuss the closer's decision with the closer, which is listed as a required step before a review. Procedural close? Randy Kryn (talk) 12:04, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse Keep, While the discussion, on a quick glance, seems to be a consensus to split, in reading it carefully - as the closer eventually did before reversing their response - that falls apart quickly. Split arguments included 1) that the navbox is too large (incorrect, there are hundreds if not thousands of navboxes which are broken up into sections, and this one has four easily understood and distinct sections), 2) that the navbox includes duplication (incorrect, each of the four sections lists individuals who drafted a particular document. That some were active in two events is akin to sportspeople playing two seasons of a sport, a sport which formed a 250 year old nation), 3) that other navboxes exist (there are signatory navboxes for each document, which are used in place of adding the central navbox to each signer) and 4) that there is a basis for splitting because of a previous discussion (incorrect, the rational fails when realizing that although this navbox was used as an example in an earlier discussion there were no notification tag placed - not on the navbox, not on its talk page, not on the pages of its topic structure, and not on the talk page of its creator). This collapsed and typically sectioned navbox actually saves space, has an accurate visible title ("Founding documents of the United States") and has been carefully edited and maintained since 2010. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:31, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Other than the two "keep" !votes, both converstaions were practically unanimously in favour of a split. --woodensuperman 12:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- You missed some editors, more than two. There was only one conversation involved in this request, the first only used the navbox as an example without notifying anybody that it was being scrutinized. I address the split above (please remember that these decisions are not made by counting heads). Randy Kryn (talk) 12:16, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Other than the two "keep" !votes, both converstaions were practically unanimously in favour of a split. --woodensuperman 12:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Speedy vacate and leave for an admin, Toadette is not ready to be closing XFD's, especially contentious ones where there's clearly a split in opinion as is evident here. I'm not familiar enough with templates or I'd have done it myself. Star Mississippi 12:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Star Mississippi, the discussion may tend to confuse inexperienced closers, as it did initially for Toadette who, when asked, took another read and came to what I view as the correct conclusion. Hopefully an admin will take a good long look at this one, grab some coffee, view the "Founding documents of the United States" navbox, and create a solid mental map of the two "sides" before completing their analysis. Thanks. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
Administrator note: @Woodensuperman and Randy Kryn: you have both commented verbosely and continuously at all venues related to this discussion. I would kindly ask that you cease commenting and let uninvolved editors discuss the matter. Primefac (talk) 12:19, 30 April 2024 (UTC)- Speedy vacate and revert on sight any other BADNACs by this out-of-control editor. Every few days we have to undo another BADNAC from this one editor. Enough already. Owen× ☎ 14:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Vacate per User:Star Mississippi. I don't see a guideline for Speedy Vacates. Should there be one, or do these editors just mean that it is obvious that the close should be vacated? The original close of Split was a valid close, and did not need to be changed, and changing it did not reflect consensus, so much as an argument from one of the two editors who has been bludgeoning this discussion. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:31, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps "summarily" would have been a better term than "speedy". I (and, I'm guessing, Star Mississippi) believe this DRV can be closed by any uninvolved admin without waiting the statutory seven days. Owen× ☎ 15:47, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Procedurally speaking,
Deletion-related closes may only be reopened by the closer themselves; by an uninvolved administrator in their individual capacity... or by consensus at deletion review
, which is somewhat ambiguous about whether one can re-open as an individual admin action while a DRV is progressing, but does not expressly forbid it like some other wordings I've seen. Primefac (talk) 16:06, 30 April 2024 (UTC)- Fair point. I read prongs #2 and #3 of that policy to imply that if there's a rough consensus to summarily vacate, any uninvolved admin may close the DRV and revert the XfD closure, without waiting for the DRV to run its course. Leaving this here for seven days isn't a disaster, but I also see no benefit to doing so if there's a consensus to vacate. Owen× ☎ 16:19, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Procedurally speaking,
- Perhaps "summarily" would have been a better term than "speedy". I (and, I'm guessing, Star Mississippi) believe this DRV can be closed by any uninvolved admin without waiting the statutory seven days. Owen× ☎ 15:47, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - As per User:Primefac, can User:Randy Kryn and User:Woodensuperman stop bludgeoning this discussion? I hope that we don't need to go to WP:ANI to ask for a one-comment-per-24-hours limit on these two editors (but we probably do, unless they will really back off voluntarily). Robert McClenon (talk) 15:31, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
-
- Primefac, Robert McClenon I was sort of shocked to find that after the closing at decision to keep, woodensuperman went to the Template:Historical American Documents and tagged the template for deletion. IMO, this was nothing more than a vindictive reaction from someone disgruntled over ToadetteEdit 's decision and closure. Because of the developments that occurred here the tag
has been(was) reverted, just for the record.
Additional note: Initially there was indeed a clear consensus to split, and only split, the template, but once it became evident that one editor was not content with just splitting but wanted to further make edits to the would be separate templates, and kept making one point of contention after another, even many of the notified editors didn't bother to pursue a never ending discussion, so it's perfectly debatable as to whether all the involved editors still wish to split. IMO,Toadette.'s decision, all things considered, was certainly called for.
Latest: As I write, Woodensuperman has just restored the tag for deletion. Could someone please deal with this editor? -- Gwillhickers (talk) 20:25, 30 April 2024 (UTC)- @Gwillhickers: the only tag I see there is the DELREV tag, linking to this review here, as required by policy. Am I missing something? Owen× ☎ 20:58, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, a tag for deletion review. In any case, we can let the tag ride, because it seems this nomination, also, isn't going anywhere. I bowed out of the original and belabored discussion days ago. Opting to outright delete the entire template simply because a nomination to split didn't go as expected, is an overkill request and completely uncalled for. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 21:11, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- The tag is to notify people of this discussion, not to delete anything. Deletion review is simply where you go to appeal a closed decision. SportingFlyer T·C 21:31, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, a tag for deletion review. In any case, we can let the tag ride, because it seems this nomination, also, isn't going anywhere. I bowed out of the original and belabored discussion days ago. Opting to outright delete the entire template simply because a nomination to split didn't go as expected, is an overkill request and completely uncalled for. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 21:11, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Primefac, Robert McClenon I was sort of shocked to find that after the closing at decision to keep, woodensuperman went to the Template:Historical American Documents and tagged the template for deletion. IMO, this was nothing more than a vindictive reaction from someone disgruntled over ToadetteEdit 's decision and closure. Because of the developments that occurred here the tag
- Overturn to Split. There's only one way to close that discussion. It was also poorly closed, so I don't care if the BADNAC is simply undone and re-closed by an administrator. I think we're also close to handing out topic bans. SportingFlyer T·C 21:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
Saira Shah Halim
The deletion discussion was taken without any proper discussion based on policy happening. The article had enough reliable sources with significant coverage over a wide period of time. I provided a wide list of sources. Two participants simply did not see anything and made vague comments, one of them was a brand new account and the other's only objection was that it was edited by sockpuppet. One more participant later came and after some discussion he accepted that the coverage was fine but he did not consider the topic notable because the topic didn't meet WP:NPOL ignoring WP:BASIC and also WP:GNG itself which the coverage meets. There was no other participation. Therefore it must have been no consensus or keep, not delete.
P.S, there was one more participant who concurred but didn't give a (vote) and wanted to see some more sources over a wider period of time which I showed but she didn't come back to it. It should be counted too. MrMkG (talk) 01:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I relisted per @Liz's request at User_talk:Star_Mississippi#Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Saira_Shah_Halim_(2nd_nomination) but haven't had time to look at new input since then as I've been offline. Regardless of how this DRV closes and despite questions about the legitimacy of Shuvomoyghosh reactivation, I think @Nyttend's A7 probably shouldn't have happened given long history of this article. My .02 though, not policy.Star Mississippi 02:13, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse the original AfD, since everyone except the DRV nominator supported deletion so it couldn't have been closed any other way. Overturn the A7 since I think being a political candidate is a CCS even if it isn't evidence of notability, but re-delete that as a G4. And salt * Pppery * it has begun... 02:22, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse the original AFD as Delete. As per Pppery, Overturn the A7. I haven't seen the reposted article, but having seen the history, I concur with salting. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:33, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- For the benefit of non-admins, the A7'd version stated in its entirety "Saira Shah Halim is the CPI(M) candidate of South Kolkata Lok Sabha." (No sources.) Arguably it's more of a G4 than an A7. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 02:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Extraordinary Writ I am confused. Did someone create the article again with that single sentence after the article was deleted in AfD recently and is that what all the admins are seeing?
- I would request them to see the article that was created by me and deleted in the 2nd AfD nomination and see the conversations in the 2nd AfD nomination. It was a proper article, multiple paragraphs long divided into multiple sections with multiple sources.
- This DRV is about that. It shouldn't be deleted just because some sockpuppet or whatever is active around it too. MrMkG (talk) 04:08, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, that's what happened. I think everyone here is aware that you're talking about the second AfD (which people are calling "the original AfD"); they just have comments on the deletion of the single-sentence version too. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 05:08, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- The AFD-deleted article was thousands of bytes, with multiple sections and eight references. The speedy-deleted article, as you see from Extraordinary Writ's comment, was one sentence. It's obviously not a repost, and obviously not a G4 candidate. Anyone can be a candidate for political office; it's not at all a claim of importance merely to be a candidate. Nyttend (talk) 02:53, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- I'd have A1'd it after my third failed attempt at finding an article at some subphrase of South Kolkata Lok Sabha, if I somehow didn't notice the previous version. I also disagree on G4 - the new substub was a proper subset of the version deleted at AFD. It's immaterial, anyway. No reasonable person is going to leave that in mainspace after we deleted the full article that was here. —Cryptic 03:02, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Presumably Kolkata Dakshin Lok Sabha constituency (aka Calcutta South (Lok Sabha constituency)). Extraordinary Writ (talk) 05:08, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- I'd have A1'd it after my third failed attempt at finding an article at some subphrase of South Kolkata Lok Sabha, if I somehow didn't notice the previous version. I also disagree on G4 - the new substub was a proper subset of the version deleted at AFD. It's immaterial, anyway. No reasonable person is going to leave that in mainspace after we deleted the full article that was here. —Cryptic 03:02, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - It's not about the original AfD, that was in 2016. Its about the second AfD. (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Saira Shah Halim (2nd nomination)) MrMkG (talk) 03:50, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- See the conversation on User talk:OwenX#Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Saira Shah Halim (2nd nomination) too. Over there User:Amakuru is also making the point, I am making. MrMkG (talk) 03:59, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment The AfD was poorly argued. Even though numerical consensus was against the appellant, statements like
Extensive coverage of a non-notable person doesn't help.
are not policy based, and demonstrate a bias against failed political candidates, as if that somehow eliminated their GNG compliance. Of course, that GNG compliance itself is challenged by the general unreliability of Indian news sources overall. Neither G4 nor A7 applied to the recreation. In short? This is a big mess, and I'm not sure deletion is a better outcome than no consensus, given the amount of uncertainty and poor policy argumentation in play. Jclemens (talk) 05:37, 30 April 2024 (UTC)- Indian news sources are not overall unreliable. How can we create any article if that is so? There are many bad sources but I did use the best sources. Two of them (Indian Express, The Wire) are green marked on the page WP:RSPS and none of the others are yellow or red marked. MrMkG (talk) 16:05, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - G4 should be clarified that it applies when the page in question is a subset of the deleted page, and, in the meantime, should be interpreted as applying when the page in question is a subset of the deleted page. The recreation after the AFD was a stupid subset of the deleted page. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:21, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
29 April 2024
2024 Alaska Democratic presidential caucuses (closed)
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| The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it. |
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Closed by a non-admin with a merge/redirect decision even though there was no outright or majority consensus to redirect/merge the article. There was a tie vote of keep and redirect/merge with eight each. A tie vote here would mean there is no consensus to remove the article. The article not only met notability requirements but also had enough reliable sources on an election that happened making all the information necessary to have its own article. All those that voted to redirect/merge mainly opposed because they felt since there was only one candidate, that in itself didn't make it less notable and they provided no evidence to their arguments other than what they felt and said all the sources were routine coverage. Yet, the so-called routine coverage were from reliable sources. The nominator of the Afd even tried to pass off an unreliable source from a right-wing publication as evidence of "in-depth coverage". Routine coverage does not apply to those sources. Elections are not routine coverage even if there is only one candidate on the ballot. And none of these had passing mentions. Yet an election still occurred where votes were cast for the incumbent and were not immediately awarded to the sole candidate by his political party which unlike in previous years where the incumbent president is running for reelection, the primaries wouldn't be held and all the delegates would be awarded to them. The vote this year unlike in Delaware and Florida, was not canceled in Alaska despite there being one candidate. If this article has to be redirected because there is only one candidate, then all the Republican primary articles for primaries happening in May and June will have to be redirected to the main 2024 presidential election articles for each state. As would contests that already happened such as the 2024 Wyoming Republican presidential caucuses, 2024 American Samoa Republican presidential caucuses, and Democratic contests for Indiana, Nebraska, Montana, and the U.S. Virgin Islands that are happening in May and June. --WikiCleanerMan (talk) 23:23, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
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| The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it. |
28 April 2024
Open Book Collective
This was admittedly a low-quorum discussion, but I don't think the arguments against redirection were any good at all. This article was created directly in mainspace by Flavoursofopen, a disclosed COI editor, against the WP:COIEDIT guideline (which I'm assuming they were unaware of). Of the two "keep" votes
- Myotus blindly asserts that
it appears notable enough
without linking any sources - Flavoursofopen's argument for keeping the article is that the OBC is legally separate from the possible redirect target (true, but irrelevant, a redirect would be kept at redirects for discussion).
Mach61 22:31, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Overturn. WP:BADNAC clearly states:
A non-admin closure is not appropriate in any of the following situations: [...] The outcome is a close call [...] or likely to be controversial
. Almost any No-consensus closure is bound to be a BADNAC. Whether the proposed redirect is a suitable ATD is something the re-closing admin should determine. Owen× ☎ 22:52, 28 April 2024 (UTC) - Vacate per above.—Alalch E. 23:22, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Overturn – As an editor who was citicized for closing AfDs, it should have been redirected rather than being closed as a no consensus. I do not see this as a "close call" and I do not understand what it is, but I do know that the closure was unjustified. It is better to wait for the closer to be online to question them about the reason for their closure. ToadetteEdit! 10:17, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- "It is better to wait for the closer to be online to question them about the reason for their closure" - question, did you check to see the timeline here before making this statement? The applicant enquired at the closer's talk page at 02:16, 27 April 2024, then waited nearly 48 hours before initiating the DRV at 22:32, 28 April 2024. No issue with Shadow311 not being available (we are all NA for periods at times), but to suggest that Mach61 should have waited longer here before coming to DRV or done something different, as your comment points to, is not accurate or fair in my opinion. Daniel (talk) 17:37, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Overturn to (soft) redirect. This is a WP:BADNAC, as is just about any no consensus closure or any closure on a relisted discussion, as it is obviously a “close call.” In this particular discussion there is the nom and one redirect !vote based in policy against two keep !votes. One is a well-meaning COI account and the other is a baseless claim of notability. As there is not a quorum, this must be a soft redirect which can be spun back at any time for any good-faith reason without the prospect of re-redirecting without further discussion. I consider vacating for an admin to re-close an acceptable option as well per OwenX though that is my second preference. Frank Anchor 12:23, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- I only saw the request to revert the close today, sorry. It appears I can't revert the close anymore since the deletion review is happening. Shadow311 (talk) 13:12, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- You can still reverse your close. Per DRV rules,
Where the closer of a deletion discussion realizes their close was wrong, and nobody has endorsed, the closer may speedily close as overturn. They should fully reverse their close, [...]
. Just revert the AFD close, re-add it to the AFD log, and close this DRV with language along the lines of "speedy overturn with consent of AFD closer." (or have an admin do so on your behalf). Frank Anchor 13:22, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- You can still reverse your close. Per DRV rules,
- Revert the BADNAC. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 14:23, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Vacate the WP:BADNAC but endorse outcome per WP:NOQUORUM. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 18:58, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Vacate per WP:BADNAC. No other comment on how this should be closed, but considering this leaned not-keep it should be closed by someone who can implement the full range of closes. SportingFlyer T·C 23:12, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Vacate - I would Endorse the close if it were closed by an admin, as a valid closure, but I concur with the previous statements that this should have been left for an admin. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:29, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment How "sticky" is a COI? Article creator declares a COI on COPIM, COPIM is directly related to this article... but is that sufficient connection to assume that the original article creator has a COI with respect to this article? It seems plausible, but not incontrovertible, so where do we draw a line? Jclemens (talk) 05:42, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
25 April 2024
Candidates of the next Australian federal election
- Candidates of the next Australian federal election (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)
Closer erred by draftifying an article about an upcoming event which already contains content about the event and which does not violate WP:CRYSTAL/WP:TOOSOON, and selected an arbitrary time for the article to be moved back into mainspace. Draft space is not a place for currently notable articles, and I believe the keep !votes were disregarded. Asking for this to be overturned to no consensus or keep so the article can be moved back from draftspace. SportingFlyer T·C 05:37, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- I have absolutely no idea how I screwed the template up this badly and every attempt I make to fix it makes it worse. SportingFlyer T·C 05:37, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Overturn to merge to next Australian federal election as a more sensible outcome all round. Stifle (talk) 08:43, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- While Merge may have been a reasonable proposal, it was clearly not supported by a consensus of discussion participants. Onetwothreeip (talk) 09:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Overturn to no consensus (and restore full article) as there were solid arguments made for keep, draftify, and merge. I strongly disagree with J2m5's comment that a no-consensus close should lead to re-draftifying. The April version of the article was substantially different than the version that was draftified in January, thus the draftify result on the January AFD has no bearing on the recent AFD. A merge discussion may be appropriate and can take place on the article talk page. Frank Anchor 12:23, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Overturn to no consensus (involved) - A neutral closer would find reasonable arguments on both sides (Draft and Keep), relatively similar popularity between the two sides, the contributions to the article during the discussion, and the trend towards Keep against Draft strengthening as the discussion progressed. The closer in this instance did not assess or attempt to assess these elements, and did not provide a reason to find there was a consensus for Draft despite all this; the closure comment looked more like a vote for one side than an assessment of the discussion. The article should therefore be restored, without prejudice to any further deletion or merger discussions. Onetwothreeip (talk) 21:22, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Overturn to no consensus. Editors did not agree on whether WP:CRYSTAL applies. As the nominator notes, the closer appears to have selected an ad hoc criterion for the article to be moved back into mainspace, an invented criterion of inclusion that is not supported by policy and is contradicted by the nature of drafting being optional. The closer's idea about when the draft should be moved back is the closer's editorial idea, but other editors might have different ideas about when to move back. AfD closer can't prevent good-faith bold mainspacing other than through salting, and salting would have been clearly inappropriate. —Alalch E. 08:39, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse (involved) Being notable does not mean ready for mainspace which a number of editors made a convincing argument for. That the article continues to have predominantly blank spaces where the future candidates will be speaks volumes. If it is the case that consensus here finds overturn to no consensus then it should still be moved to draft because of the article creator moving it back to mainspace merely three months after the first deletion discussion when there was no substantive difference to the article. I could for all intents and purposes probably have slapped it with a CSD G4 rather than nominating it for the second deletion discussion and my speedy would have been in all likelyhood been accepted. TarnishedPathtalk 09:09, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- The version of the article is substantially different than the one discussed in January. Therefore a no consensus close MUST result in the article being restored (without prejudice to renomination), and not default to an outdated discussion involving five participants. Likewise, G4 would not have applied for the same reasons.Frank Anchor 11:02, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- At the time of taking it out of draft into mainspace, merely three months after the first AfD, the only substantial difference (refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Draft%3ACandidates_of_the_next_Australian_federal_election&diff=1217634391&oldid=1199169820 for differences between being put into draft as consequence of the first AfD and being put back into mainspace) was the additional of a number of empty tables to be filled at a later date when candidates appeared. Notably those tables are almost completely empty. TarnishedPathtalk 12:07, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- The version of the article is substantially different than the one discussed in January. Therefore a no consensus close MUST result in the article being restored (without prejudice to renomination), and not default to an outdated discussion involving five participants. Likewise, G4 would not have applied for the same reasons.Frank Anchor 11:02, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse good close. Wikipedia-notability does not guarantee the topic a page in mainspace, WP:Consensus May merge a notable topic. Merging may be done from draftspace. The draftified page is very drafty looking. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 14:00, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- There was no consensus behind the WP:CRYSTAL rationale and if there's no consensus that there's a barrier to mainspace retention for policy-compliance reasons, there's no objective barrier to overcome to know when to mainspace, and, knowing this, the closer improvised a criterion upon which to allow returning to mainspace, but there's no force behind the improvised criterion, just creating tension, and that tension needs to be resolved by letting this harmless page harmlessly sit in mainspace where it will slowly be improved like any other article. —Alalch E. 23:36, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- You have an implied argument that it being in draft will result in it not being improved. That argument is simply not born out by experience. As it stands now we have a article which claims to be about the candidates for the next Australian federal election which has absolutely no idea who the vast majority of those candidates are. That is evidenced by the vast amount of empty space found in the tables contained in the article. TarnishedPathtalk 04:16, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- There was no consensus behind the WP:CRYSTAL rationale and if there's no consensus that there's a barrier to mainspace retention for policy-compliance reasons, there's no objective barrier to overcome to know when to mainspace, and, knowing this, the closer improvised a criterion upon which to allow returning to mainspace, but there's no force behind the improvised criterion, just creating tension, and that tension needs to be resolved by letting this harmless page harmlessly sit in mainspace where it will slowly be improved like any other article. —Alalch E. 23:36, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse close, promote to mainspace as new information has been added since the AFD nomination This is a fair reading of the discussion, and I cannot find obvious error in the top line close. As SmokeyJoe says above, passing WP:N does not necessarily mean a stand-alone page is warranted. That said, looking at the draft page, there does seem to be multiple nominees already determined, so I believe that whatever the result here, this page will be in the mainspace soon. --Enos733 (talk) 02:33, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- The majority of the edits since the last move the draft have been small. The only substantial edit was one I preformed adding in archived links to existing references which is not what I would call a change to content. TarnishedPathtalk 04:21, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- They are referring to changes made since the article was nominated for deletion, not since the article was moved to draft. Onetwothreeip (talk) 06:16, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- That is the scope of the problem - because there are multiple reliably sourced nominees, the topic is no longer TOOSOON and is ready to be moved into mainspace. SportingFlyer T·C 04:34, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- The majority of the edits since the last move the draft have been small. The only substantial edit was one I preformed adding in archived links to existing references which is not what I would call a change to content. TarnishedPathtalk 04:21, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse (involved) there is a premise here that this information is needed now. But looking at Next Australian federal election the election is very unlikely to be called before 3rd of August. Additionally, the redistribution will not be finalised to Q3 or Q4 of this year. So Sept/Oct is a more reasonable time to review draft status. The article is trying to publish too much. Looking at this alternate draft User:J2m5/draft6 we see only 34 potential candidates so far for 150 seats. But the tabular format of this article reserves space for approx 600 to 700 potential candidates, many who will never actually appear. Now senate potnetial candidates have been added, but these are the last to be pre-selected as they only represent a state and not a single electorate. Hence the unbalanced look of largely empty tables. It also has too much conjecture. The seat of North Sydney may well be abolished, so better to wait for the redistrubtion than list speculative pre-selected candidates. The issue of party pre-selection ballots were deemed as inappropriate and often unsourced in an earlier article Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2023–24 Liberal Party of Australia preselections, but they have appeared again in this article, contrary to an AfD decision. A entry is made for an attempt by 2 candidates to share a seat in Higgins in Victoria. But this is an impossibility as only a single name can appear on the candidate nomination form. This non-encylopedic approach should be cleared up before this article can be considered for mainspace. Teraplane (talk) 07:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
But the tabular format of this article reserves space for approx 600 to 700 potential candidates, many who will never actually appear.
This is completely untrue, the tables contain spaces for parties which contest all the seats. Regardless, this discussion isn't to determine whether the article should be deleted, but whether the closure of the deletion discussion was adequately representative of the discussion. Onetwothreeip (talk) 09:57, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse as a valid close. The question at DRV is whether the close was a valid close, not whether another close would have been valid. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:09, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
22 April 2024
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I believe my rationale for delete carried more weight than those of the other two editors who voted to keep. I pinged Randykitty to know the rationale for 'No consensus' where they said
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20 April 2024
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Plausible typo ("R" and "T" are next to one another on a QWERTY keyboard) which was speedy deleted without proper discussion. --Jax 0677 (talk) 15:23, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
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17 April 2024
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The article was proposed for deletion, I contested it but a decision was made, without consensus or further discussion, to merge with another article Econophysics. As explained on the Econophysics talk page, this is not an appropriate merger. I therefore ask that the decision be postponed until there has been a suitable discussion period. Sjm3 (talk) 12:47, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
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