Talk:Venom (band)

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NWOBHM peers[edit]

What does that abbreviation mean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.253.186.82 (talk) 17:00, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New wave of British heavy metal... i agree it should be spelled out there --FMSky (talk) 17:05, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A criticism section?[edit]

Seriously? This should be rid of and the information should be rewrote to fit in with other sections. Even Simple Plan shouldn't have a criticism section. Dethmetal (talk) 00:47, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

but alot of bands do have a criticism based on professional criticism; if it was an attack by certain editors then it would be removed. Ducky610 (talk) 07:41, 26 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How is Rollins's criticism relevant? Black Flag were not exactly known for being virtuosos musicians, some might say mediocre. What's the criteria for the criticism? Venom's lyrics don't provide sarcastic social commentary? Repkow (talk) 14:03, 17 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Added an album[edit]

I added the "From Hell to the Unknown" album to the list of compilation albums. It was released on the Raw Power imprint of Castle Communications in 1985 as a double album. In the copy I have, disc one is red transparent vinyl, and disc two is standard black vinyl.

Track listing is as follows:

Disc 1, side 1 Sons of Satan Welcome to Hell Schizo Mayhem with Mercy Poison Live like an Angel

Disc 1, side 2 Witching Hour 1000 Days in Sodom Angel Dust In League with Satan Red Light Fever

Disc 2, side 1 Bursting Out At War with Satan (intro) Die Hard (live) Manitou Senile Decay Black Metal

Disc 2, side 2 Possessed Seven Gates of Hell (live) Burried Alive Too Loud for the Crowd Radio Interview

Gavslater (talk) 03:02, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the addition. For the record, I think that's a bootleg, but I'm sure there's room for that info in the article somewhere. Colinclarksmith (talk) 03:20, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pretty sure this isn't a bootleg. It put out by Raw and not Neat Records, but pretty sure it was available through all the correct channels. I believe the only original material was the Metro Radio interview. Cronoz (talk) 12:33, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

--Ravahe (talk) 13:41, 29 November 2013 (UTC)You are both right. It was a bootleg that was later embraced officially.[reply]

Early years of Venom![edit]

There are some factual inaccuracies in the this text, A. the name 'Venom' and the origonal logo was thought up by a part time art student named Kevin Devlin who often came to practice sessions. B. there was no 'replaced' within the early years of the band! Dave and Chris left of their own accord due to having different musical preferences, 'replacements' were then sought. Dean Hewitt left as an impending addition to his family meant having to sell his gear! once again a new bassist was sought. the text implies that these guys were replaced directly which is not correct! for myself i became very dissillusioned with the way things were going and the icing on the cake for me was when Jeff, Tony and Clive unveiled the new backdrop! (5 pointed star in a ring with the goats head in the middle) i was ready to quit anyway but much to my amusement was 'Replaced' therefore the only member replaced was me!

regards

Dave Rutherford — Preceding unsigned comment added by Viper076 (talk • contribs) 19:01, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the fascinating insight into the early days. Is this captured anywhere or is there a reliable source of some of the ealry history?

Cronoz (talk) 11:52, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hey dude how is it going ? Kevin Devlin was a bit of a guitarist himself but had no desire to play in a band, he suggested the name when Jeff Dean and myself were practising at St Peters junior school near the Freeman hospital, Dave and Chris were more into stuff like the Eagles with Hotel California being one of the songs they wanted to play, needless to say i was less than chuffed at that eh, Dean was a real charactor very agile bassist but we knew he would have to leave to provide for his impending family, Alan Winston was the guy who repleced Dean but was only a stopgap really as he was getting married in the not so distant future and was looking at buying a house, (no idea if that came about), and finally me, i had no desire to improve musically or a want of 'stardom' it was just fun, when we moved the practise sessions to that church hall at the top of Westgate road it turned sour for me, lugging all the gear onto that stage for practise seemed pointless to me, and then building a drummer riser aswell was too much, so i lost interest, like i said the last straw for me was the backdrop. I suppose i made it obvious that i didn't really want to be there and i knew my time was almost up and would be replaced. And that is about the only source of info that i know of i'm afraid. Viper076 (talk) 13:18, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted 'Controversy Over Royal Wedding' section[edit]

I deleted this section as the only source is the spoof website tyrannyoftradition.com

Other stories include King Diamond running as Republican candidate for president of the USA. Entertaining, but just goes to show you can't belive everything you read!

Cronoz (talk) 11:51, 2 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reversed substitution of 'black metal' with 'hardcore punk' in Genres[edit]

If you cross reference Black Metal it describes Venom as a 'first wave' black metal band.

Cronoz (talk) 08:19, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Extreme metal in the infobox?[edit]

Yes, I know that Venom is one of the extremiest heavy metal bands out there, but still, their music is way too soft to be labeled as "extreme metal". I mean, if you compare Venom to REAL extreme metal like Celtic Frost or Hellhammer, it sounds nothing like them. I think that the previous genres should be relisted.-Teh Thrasher (talk) 18:07, 23 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, they were part of the first-wave black metal movement, which is an extreme metal genre. They have also been considered thrash metal, another extreme metal genre. However, extreme metal itself is not really a genre, but rather a term to describe a specific group of metal genres. So, yeah, I agree that those genres should stay listed too. 75.129.101.158 (talk) 18:13, 28 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In the history of the thrash metal genre at MusicRadar, Venom is regarded as one of its progenitors, alongside Metallica and Overkill. In the death metal's history at the same website, Venom is credited for bringing "extreme metal to life" with their aggressive musicianship and Satanic lyricism. According to the documentary about black metal, Murder Music: A History of Black Metal, Venom laid the foundation of this genre and is ranked as a member of the first wave. So summa summarum, although Venom's music might not be as heavy as later extreme metal bands such as Death and Carcass, it is considered "extreme" by professional music writers.--Retrohead (talk) 19:59, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I completely understand now.-Teh Thrasher (talk) 10:31, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, Venom is extreme. They were the first wave of Black metal, since they wore the leather and bullet belts of later Black metal artists, they played very fast and heavy and their lyrics tended to be satanic or occult. They weren't as heavy as bands like Immortal, but hey, Iron Maiden isn't as heavy as Avenged Sevenfold, but both are metal. Music can evolve over time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.70.61.230 (talk) 02:45, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Extreme metal is not the correct genre for this band - at least not the primary or sole genre. The band are clearly pioneers of Black Metal and whilst later waves of Black Metal may not compare to Venom, that is the nature of music; it progresses. Black Metal is a more accurate and associated genre to apply to the band. Other genres may arguably apply, but to have an article on Venom and not classify them as Black Metal entirely misses the mark. Cronoz (talk) 09:53, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Extreme Metal?[edit]

Extreme Metal contains Doom Metal,Thrash Metal,Black Metal and Death Metal,if you say Celtic Frost is Extreme Metal yes they did every single of these subgenres but when Venom are Thrash Metal and Black Metal[1](technicaly Black/Speed Metal),when you write Extreme Metal people think that they're Doom and Death Metal too because there are no Genres in genre article,please stpo writing Extreme Metal for venom and write: Thrash Metal,Black Metal,Speed Metal and Heavy Metal,Cronos calls it Black Metal so why do you write Extreme Metal? Dani Filth called it Extreme Metal(while their genres are Symphonic Black Metal and Gothic Black Metal and you wrote but when Cronos says Black Metal and you call it Extreme Metal? — Preceding unsigned comment added by GREYBOYY (talk • contribs) 15:20, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.allmusic.com/artist/venom-mn0000315403

Genre[edit]

I noticed that it says Venom's genre is just Extreme metal and I can't get my head around it. Why so broad? Extreme metal includes so many different genres. We know Venom isn't Doom metal, since they're quite the opposite. We know they aren't metalcore or Death metal and they aren't stoner rock or sludge metal. If I had to put in what genre Venom is, I'd say Thrash metal, Black metal, Speed metal, Heavy metal. That's basically all they play. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.70.61.230 (talk) 02:42, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If you are not pointing to published opinions to support your suggestion then you don't have any leverage. Binksternet (talk) 21:31, 15 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Leverage is already there. If you just listen to them, they are not doom. http://www.venomslegions.com/biography/venom-biog.htm They are credited as the founders of Black metal and Thrash metal, but aren't just Extreme metal. They are unknown for playing just Thrash metal, Black metal, Heavy metal and Speed metal, the latter two of which are not extreme metal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lilahdog568 (talk • contribs) 21:07, 30 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You appear to be saying "I listened to the music so I conclude the genre is _____." That's not the way Wikipedia is supposed to work. Instead, we refer to published opinions about the band's genre. Binksternet (talk) 18:33, 1 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It really should be listed in the genres that they are also black metal, allmusic even says so https://www.allmusic.com/artist/venom-mn0000315403 "Devil children from Britain's new wave of metal, the originators of black metal and a heavy influence on thrash." I would add it but it would probably just get taken down, if that isn't a good enough source every major metal website including metallum and metal storm also says they play black metal. Surly someone can jump in and help support this case.2602:306:8BA6:880:114B:FD51:CDD7:6673 (talk) 23:18, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They were obviously a heavy influence on the genre but they dont play black metal as its known today (they basically just play speed/thrash with Satanic lyrics). I would be ok with adding proto black metal or first-wave black metal to the infobox --FMSky (talk) 05:02, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well that sounds reasonable to me, i'm going to add first-wave of black metal if people are fine with that.2602:306:8BA6:880:B9DC:1DF1:DFD7:3859 (talk) 00:16, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've inserted it, but i can guarantee it wont be long before random IPs will start changing it --FMSky (talk) 00:27, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Venom inc (Iron & Steel)?[edit]

I understand some of the original members are performing as Venom inc (Iron & Steel), and there's a member listing, but some discussion in text form would be quite helpful if there's any actual information to be had.192.223.242.22 (talk) 17:10, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The band are active under the name of 'Venom Inc.' with 'Iron & Steel' appearing to have been dropped from most of their Facebook/Website (facebook.com/VenomIncOfficial & venom-inc.com). There doesn't appear to be a lot of love lost between the bands (based on linked interviews from their website). It would be possible to expand the section with a history of Venom Inc. based on their website and a number of linked reports, but I'm not sure if it merits a page on its own right. Cronoz (talk) 11:59, 31 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If reliable sources can be found to discuss the transition, it makes sense, yes. Walter Görlitz (talk) 13:57, 31 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Storm the Gates[edit]

Hello, Walter Görlitz. Why "Storm the Gates" is not a notable album? It's a studio album by one of the most renowned metal bands, initiators of black metal. Their all studio album are submitted here, except this one. Cheers! --Toghrul Rahimli (talk) 13:18, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

@Toghrul Rahimli: I moved this from my talk page. I couldn't find any sources for it—probably because it's common name—and there weren't any at the article, so I redirected it here. If you can improve it, feel free to remove the redirect and add them to the article! Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:10, 5 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Writing style: avoid accolades and subjective overtones[edit]

Please, take out any phrases like "although as the band rehearsed in an old church hall the sound was not good" (write "the band rehearsed in an old church hall and found the acoustics unsatisfying", instead), "Many defining elements of these genres are first found in the lyrics and song titles created by Lant, his unique singing style and larger than life presence" (omit "larger than life", "unique"), "The title track written by Lant, was a deliberate way for him to shove a middle finger up to the critics who said Venom couldn't play" (omit the part beginning with "deliberate way" in favour of the more balanced "In response to criticism Lant composed a track which became the title track of the album"). Keep the article as close to the academic style as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scrutinizer798 (talk • contribs) 22:56, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Scrutinizer798: Your statement lines-up with WP:PEACOCK so should be made. The article is not locked to new editors, so be WP:BOLD and make the changes. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:43, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Walter, thanks for the welcome message. Not meant as a criticism but could you help me understand why you consider the link I added to the venom inc website spam? As venom inc is mentioned https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venom_(band)#Reunion_of_the_Venom_'89/'90_line-up_under_the_name_%22Venom_Inc.%22 I thought it be a valid addition. Thanks! Marcelklomp (talk) 13:58, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Marcelklomp: You're talking about edit. Yes. I messed-up. I saw that an unofficial website used the {{official website}} so I'll change that now. Thanks. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:01, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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