Talk:Acantha

Acantha was nominated as a Philosophy and religion good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (November 5, 2014). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

Greece Low‑importance

	Greece portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greece on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Classical Greece and Rome Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Mythology Low‑importance

	Mythology portal This article is supported by WikiProject Mythology. This project provides a central approach to Mythology-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the WikiProject page for more details.MythologyWikipedia:WikiProject MythologyTemplate:WikiProject MythologyMythology articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Comments[edit]

I think this page is two different myths mushed together. The best I can find out is that Acantha was a nymph (who are always female) who Apollo tried to rape, but Acantha fought back, scratching his face. In punishment Apollo turned her into an acanthus tree.

Acanthus and Acanthis (brother and sister) seem to be a different myth, but I can't find a clear description of the myth.

There is some confusion due to this, probably because more than one mythical figure was associated with the class of plants that bear the stem --acanth. From the Encyclopedia Mythica:

Acanthus: The son of Autonous and Hippoamia. The horses of his father tore him to pieces.

Acanthis: The sister of Acanthus. When she cried over the death of her brother the gods turned her into a thistle finch.

Acantha: The spirit of the acanthus tree who was once a nymph loved by the sun god and who, at her death, was transformed into a sun-loving herb.

(http://www.pantheon.org/areas/mythology/europe/greek/articles.html)

Nymphs are nature spirits or minor goddesses which are always regarded as female; one source for this is Princeton's Word Net: http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=nymph Since the only articles I can find that relate to this character refer to her as female (with the exception of the many which are lifted from this article), I'll change her back into a female. Acantha1979 22:31, 11 June 2006 (UTC)Acantha[reply]

Can you attribute the myths of all three characters to any (printed and established, I hope!) source other than Encyclopedia Mythica or the other (unsourced) websites currently given in the works cited? As it stands, the Acanthus/Acanthis characters are believable, since the thistle finch would live on acanthus plants. However, this Acantha sounds like a product of modern times. I've never heard of one of the gods' lovers physically attacking their pursuers. A feminist myth of fighting back against rapists? Anyway, I change some of the wording to reflect the original sources' information. I hope the article sounds a little more coherent now. 67.162.118.167 (talk) 01:43, 25 March 2008 (UTC) Chris G.[reply]

I agree it probably is a more modern myth as opposed to one held my the Ancient Greeks. I done quite a lot of digging and I think I've identified the earliest mention. I've detailed all of it in a major rewrite of the page. If anyone does happen to find a classical source for the story though please let me know as I'd be really interested. I tried for the best part of four hours though and found nothing. Nyctimene (talk) 23:44, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. I did some digging but I couldn't find the myth of Acantha on any reliable websites. It is not stated in any classical sources. If this story of Acantha never existed in the body of Greek mythology, isn't it wrong to let this story stay this way on Wikipedia? If not removing it, we should at least make it clear at the beginning that this story has no classical sources to back it. Srushtijd (talk) 13:21, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

FTR, the unrelated myths have been split out into Acanthus (son of Autonous) and Acanthis (mythology). -- Beland (talk) 17:11, 9 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article Nomination[edit]

I nominated the article because, whilst small, I believe it contains all relevant information on the topic thereby fulfilling the purpose of an encyclopedia. I leave the merits down to whoever reviews the page. All I would ask is that the page not be discounted simply because it is small. The fact is there is very little information on this topic and, in this editor's opinion, all of it can be found herein. My thanks in advance for your feedback. Nyctimene (talk) 15:30, 30 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Acantha/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: J Milburn (talk · contribs) 19:40, 5 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I applaud you for taking on this article, but I fear that there isn't enough material to justify promoting the article to GA status. At 970 B (158 words) "readable prose size", this is too short even for DYK.

Here are some general comments which will hopefully help you prep future articles for GAC:

Genus names, book titles and periodicals should be italicised Done - Thank you for taking care of this. Nyctimene (talk) 12:37, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Your references should be a little fuller; year of publication and publishers (where they exist) for books, specific article names/authors for periodicals. {{Cite book}} and {{Cite journal}} may be helpful. Done - Nyctimene (talk) 12:37, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Greek deities sidebar isn't particularly useful; perhaps if there was one for nymphs, that would be appropriate Not done - I'm afraid I disagree with this point. This is in fact the nymph sidebar. The relevant template is, "Greek myth (nymph)" and it can be found in a number of other articles on specific nymphs. Nyctimene (talk) 12:37, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"The tale goes that Acantha was a nymph loved by the god Apollo. Acantha however rebutted Apollo's advances and scratched his face when he tried to rape her. As a result Apollo transformed her into the Acanthus, a plant with spiny leaves." Footnotes here, please - Done Nyctimene (talk) 12:37, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"In the first edition Lemprière provides no reference for the story. In the updated seventh edition three references are given however, on inspection, none actually contain the myth.[6] As such the tale appears to be a comparatively modern invention as opposed to a myth genuinely embraced by the Ancient Greeks." The fact that the only source cited here is L's seventh edition, this reads like original research. Do you have a reputable source citing what you here claim? - Done - Fair point. I have reworded the final paragraph in a way which, hopefully, meets this objection. Nyctimene (talk) 12:37, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Given that the article is so short, you'd really have to plum the depths of every source out there to see what, if anything, has been said; there are a good few hits on Google Scholar (even when I've narrowed it down a little), so there may be more out there. If there's really nothing else to say, it should probably be merged, as per WP:SIZERULE. Given that Acantha may not actually be a "real" nymph, you can probably do justice to the topic at Acanthus (plant).

Sorry I haven't got any better news, but the topic's certainly an interesting one- even if the article isn't really suitable for GA status as it stands. J Milburn (talk) 19:40, 5 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Acantha. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141008031838/http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/canon/fontsel to http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/canon/fontsel

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:38, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]