Talk:Bombing of Kassel in World War II

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3/4 October suburbs[edit]

The source I used for the time line was http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/oct43.html It states:

3/4 October 1943
Kassel: 547 aircraft - 223 Halifaxes, 204 Lancasters, 113 Stirlings, 7 Mosquitos. The H2S 'blind marker' aircraft overshot the aiming point badly and the 'visual markers' could not correct this because their view of the ground was restricted by thick haze. German decoy markers may also have been present. The main weight of the attack thus fell on the western suburbs and outlying towns and villages. 24 aircraft - 14 Halifaxes, 6 Stirlings, 4 Lancasters - lost, 4.4 per cent of the force.
A number of Mosquito operations took place; 10 aircraft on a diversion to Hannover, 12 Oboe aircraft to Knapsack power-station near Cologne and 4 on Mark II Oboe trials to Aachen. No losses.

Note: "The main weight of the attack thus fell on the western suburbs". At the moment the article says "eastern suburbs of Ihringshausen and Bettenhausen". I am going to change it to western suburbs. If this is wrong please provide a source. --Philip Baird Shearer 00:59, 12 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yah, it´s wrong, since Ihringshausen lays to the northeast and Bettenhausen to the east of Kassel. Provided source: Any map you can find of Kassel and its region, or at least Google Maps. I´ll refix it. 84.138.10.94 (talk) 11:11, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

War crimes[edit]

As I already did at the Dresden bombing article, I again present sources for the claim that bombing civilians was a crime against humanity: [1], [2] [3]. Again I would like to point out that suppressing this information plays into the hand of sick people who say that the real bug crime of WWII was not the holocaust. 84.59.88.9 23:45, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Putting sources in the Talk page does no good. Put them in the article. And they have to be reliable sources. User:Zoe|(talk) 23:46, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

All of those so-called sources are opinion pieces. Where is the documentation for the claims made on those pages? User:Zoe|(talk) 23:48, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And you decide what reliable is? There are thousands of them, and all I want to be stated in the article is that the killing of thousands of civilians can be seen as a war crime or crime against humanity, nothing more. It will always remain an opinion as there were no trials.84.59.88.9 23:50, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Then provide reliable sources, not opinion pieces!--KrossTalk 00:13, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It is an opinion that the bombings were war crimes as no trial has ever decided upon the question. As the opinion is widespread, as can be seen easily using google, it has to be noted. 84.59.88.9 00:17, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Don't just point to a Google search. Document it. Is there a book or a newspaper or magazine article which talks about the opinions that these actions were war crimes? And don't give me neo-Nazi sites and other sites with an axe to grind, give me a neutral site. User:Zoe|(talk) 00:46, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Just look above. A fact does not become a fact because it is printed in a book. You can easily find books that say there was no holocaust. By the way, even if it were only Nazis who said this was a war crime - I doubt it because the Nazis used area bombing, too - it would still be noteworthy, as much as it is noteworthy that some lunatics deny the fact that millions were murdered in concentration camps. I have never read any book on that topic and I do not intend to do so. Get-back-world-respect 23:09, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly a britsh war crime[edit]

the third attack was clearly a british war crime. the chosen target area was the medival city center. there was no industry, no military installations in these area. it was a planned and systematical massmurder on the civil population without any military justification. a clear violation of article 25 of the den hague landwar convention of 1907. only some fanatic nationalistic british lunatics deny these historical facts. systematical attacks on the civil population are always a war crime thats common sense. the nationality of the victims doesn´t change that fact.--131.173.252.9 13:19, 12 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Destroying Terror Weapons is not a War Crime[edit]

No mention is made that the giro/guidance for the V1 and V2 Terror Weapons was being produced at Philips Kassel with sub-workshops scattered/ dispersed throughout the city making it a class one military target. That was the origin of the last raid, and no war crime. Pity the poor guys who fell fighting the Nazis.86.46.147.159 (talk) 17:23, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fire[edit]

"The fire of the most severe air raid burned for seven days, at least 10,000 people died, 150,000 inhabitants were bombed-out, and the vast majority of the city center was destroyed." - (a) which was the most severe raid? Presumably October 1943, but it's not clear from the text, and (b) are the figures in the second half of the sentence for that raid in particular, or for the raids as a whole? -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 13:36, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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1941 bombing[edit]

In a book on the manuscripts of the Kassel state library, it says that there was a bombing raid on the night of the 8th-9th September 1941 which destroyed a significant part of the library's manuscript collection. Since the book is an official publication of the library and is based on local knowledge (and presumably local records), it seems that this source should be treated as authoritative and the raid should be added to the list. The publication in question is

  • Wiedemann, Konrad, ed. (1994). Manuscripta Theologica: Die Handschriften in Folio. Handschriften der Gesamthochschul-Bibliothek Kassel, Landesbibliothek und Murhardsche Bibliothek der Stadt Kassel. Vol. 1. Wiesbaden: Harrassowitz. p. XXXIII. ISBN 978-3447033558. Retrieved 30 December 2017. - the link is to the relevant page (in German)

--Pfold (talk) 14:09, 30 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Now found a reference to an article in The Times: "Kassel bombed by 100 aircraft. Great destruction and fires beyond counting were left by the R.A.F in Monday night's heavy attack on Kassel, in which nearly 100 aircraft took part." (September 10, 1941, p. 4, col. C) --Pfold (talk)
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