Talk:Sammy Sosa

Steroid Suspicions

I think it would be best to add a new section for steroid suspicions and expanding on the couple of sentences in the current article. Does anyone else have thoughts on that? (Dossett 22:56, 4 June 2007 (UTC))

Anything to be added would have to be cited from a reputable source publication. Wikipedia does not and cannot deal in rumor or suspicion, especially in the case of living persons. Jpers36 23:02, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Naturally. I think something like "Sammy Sosa was suspected of steroid use" would have numerous reputable citations available. That's different than "Sammy Sosa used steroids." The steroid controversy around him is real. (Dossett 23:58, 4 June 2007 (UTC))

Better would be, "Publication X made these claims about Sosa's steroid use", or "Columnist Y of newspaper Z pointed out these factors that imply Sosa used steroids." i.e., refer to a specific source that made specific claims. Jpers36 00:07, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I've read newspaper Z, it's a good one. 24.124.64.9 06:38, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

There was also a congressional hearing where he forgot how to speak English. It's a joke that there isn't even a single sentence about performance enhancing drugs in this bio.

Everyone knows newspaper Z is nothing but leftist, liberal propaganda. Anyone who reads it has no idea what's going on, I would be ashamed to have that rubbish in my house! 24.124.64.9, another victim of the Left's blatant brainwashing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.8.26.10 (talk) 03:45, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

2007

New info on Sosa was added, regarding his 40 man roster add to the Rangers. It all looks and sounds good, but I believe the batting average is wrong. i read it to be .452 here: [1]

My source may be wrong, we should clear it up, though, if it is not.

• In that same article Rangers GM pretty much garauntees Sosa will start on opening day. That may be worthy of mention.

Also, his career revival with the Rangers may be worthy as its own section under, possibly "2007, with the Rangers" or something like that. Right now it's under 06-07 off-season, which is also accurate. Does anyone care? (Mythos721 17:54, 16 March 2007 (UTC))

I modified this entry to reflect the 2007 portion as such, dividing the "2006, and beyond" into one titled 2006, and one called 2007. However, there is still the matter of his actual batting average, or maybe it doesn't matter, since it will change. (Mythos721 18:43, 16 March 2007 (UTC))

School

where did sammy go to school and college? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.148.204.185 (talk)

Sosa didn't go to college. He grew up in poverty in the Dominican Republic, and was signed at the age of 16. Jpers36 22:28, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps someone should add that he didn't go to college. I would do it myself but I'm hardly an authority on Sammy Sosa, just a casual fan. --J.a.f.a.c. 05:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

BTW, why does it state that Sammy is Cuban? (in the categories) --Meph1986 02:13, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Hop

I think something about his trademark hop should be included. --Chitomcgee 03:17, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Baninter

What does the Baninter scandal have to do with Sosa? It's unclear why it's linked to at the bottom. --jdickert 12:29, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

There is serious vandalism on this right now that I am about to remove. I am shocked that no one has removed this previously Thetaxmancometh 02:09, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Someone managed to slip it back in again. I've removed it again. -- Rogerborg 16:13, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Someone out there doesn't know the difference between BALCO and Banco. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.116.211.3 (talk) 22:13, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Clean-up

This article needs some serious grammatical clean-up. I'd do it but the page is semi-protected.216.146.94.235 15:48, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Because so many IP's keep changing "Sammy" to "Corkey"...which is not at all funny. 阿修羅96 16:05, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

This line from the first paragraph seems fake... "For example he suffered a back injury and a concussion from sneezing on two separate occasions which are two unusual injuries"--Sebtlfr 03:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Copy Editing

A couple of days ago, I did some copy editing or "clean-up" of the article. If you think anything was changed that should not have been, let me know here.

Thanks.

Justus R 21:57, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

HR score

Since I do not know how the cited source goes with editing but... Sammy is only 21 HR's away from breaking Aarons HR record... MLB.com 67.168.132.134 05:42, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

never mind I'm a moron 67.168.132.134 05:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Congressional steroid committee

Shouldn't this be mentioned somewhere? Socby19 (talk) 22:08, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I have to agree. Seems like that should definitely be in here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.135.210.244 (talk) 21:42, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

This still hasn't been addressed. Socby19 (talk) 20:18, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

So what's stopping you from researching it? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 22:16, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I do see it as an important potential part of the article. However, I don't see myself as the best person to edit it as such. Wikipedia is meant as a community where people help with and/or take other's suggestions.Socby19 (talk) 06:05, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

List of home runs

First off I don't know why this is listed.... second off... since he's presumably retiring, can't we make this humongous table a 2-column table? It isn't very wide. Bohsocks (talk) 01:24, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism of article

Administrators: Please read article and note that someone has tampered with the text of this article in several places. I tried to report "vandalism" but couldn't follow the complicated directions to do so.Apace361 (talk) 17:04, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Looks like someone's working on fixing the IP address vandalisms. Did they catch everything? Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 19:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I went throught the history and reverted a bunch of edits since April 17. I'm pretty sure I was careful to remove only vandalism, but feel free to double check. -Phoenixrod (talk) 19:30, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

If a single IP or other vandal has been messing with things and intervening editors fail to observe it, what I usually do is revert to the point just before the vandal got started, then compare the results to see if any legitimate edits got rubbed out, and add them back in as needed. That's a more efficient way to do it. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 19:33, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Original Slammin Sammy

the golfer Sam Snead had this nickname long before. I will make a disamb page with both on there instead of just having Slammin Sammy redirect here. Machete97 (talk) 14:09, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Certainly. That's where Sosa's nickname would have come from anyway. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 14:12, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Asterisk

In the 1998 row of his statistics box there is an asterisk next to the year, but there it doesn't appear to be referring to anything —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.206.149.78 (talk) 19:19, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Thx for removing it :) I'm not wiki-savvy :) 68.206.149.78 (talk) 02:59, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Sammy Sosa of Haitian descent

Famous baseball player Sammy Sosa of haitian descent

Famous baseball player Sammy Sosa is of haitian parents born in Dominican Republic. This is what the National Commission of Human Rights has revealed. Maybe you guys knew about it before but i never did. Haitian father and haitian mother. article is in Spanish ... [2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bana2166 (talk • contribs) 20:31, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

You're right Bana2166. I found my own source (says father only and a number of other players of Haitian descent by an acclaimed Dominican journalist which states that about 40% of players are of Haitian descent [3]) and wanted to include a section; wanted to check the talk page first to see if there was anything on the matter and I found your comment. I believe your link is now broken but I found the same name of the article here on another publisher's website: [4] Cheers! Savvyjack23 (talk) 00:46, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Vitiligo?

[5]

[6]

He's certainly changed a lot in appearance. Perhaps a "new" photo should be added to the article to reflect that, if one could be found that would satisfly GFDL.

Stonemason89 (talk) 17:40, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, I'm not going to hold my breath for that to happen. All of this stuff is based on like one photo. For all we know, the photo was doctored too. Wknight94 ^talk 18:05, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Many photos. Many websites. Unlikely that they were all doctored.Lestrade (talk) 03:18, 11 November 2009 (UTC)Lestrade

The photos were NOT doctored. The guy is legitimately white now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.152.243.174 (talk) 05:02, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Yup just another guy trying to whiten up. unhappy in his own skin. pathetic.--71.246.106.6 (talk) 05:30, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Those images are in fact real and authentic. According to an article from Yahoo! Sports], the discoloration was caused by some skin treatment cream Sosa has been using. --  StarScream1007  ►Talk  05:38, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I think this should be included in the article. It's certainly noteworthy and has reached a large enough people to warrant it. I saw it in Thailand news the other day, you can find the article if you search for it. This being discussed internationally makes it arguably one of the most significant events he has ever been associated with. Debollweevil (talk) 07:12, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

As significant than the 1998 home run race with Mark McGwire, the 2003 corked bat incident, or his silence before Congress in 2005? Certainly you jest. It's already a non-issue in the home country of baseball. It's gossip and speculation - and if we include a section on Sammy Sosa's skin color, that will encourage others to drop by and offer their opinions on the matter as well. If Wikipedia strives to be a serious source of information, and THE ultimate destination for the digital legacies of famous people, then the editors have to be really careful to what's included and excluded. My 2 cents, for what it's worth. Terry Foote (talk) 12:43, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Well, that would be ideal for the legacy, I suppose, but the rest of the world that is trying to gather information will be hindered by this very well-known event being left out. Debollweevil (talk) 06:41, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Love how this was reverted "per talk page" [7] when you had one user amongst other opinions who said that it should be removed. Meanwhile the user who says it should be removed calls it "gossip and speculation", while the content removed was backed with a reliable source with quotes from the subject (though the user posted their opinion before this was added) --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 17:10, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Vitiligo and Sosa is a dead issue - if it weren't, the "reliable sources" would still be writing about it:

http://news.google.com/news/search?um=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&source=hp&q=sammy+sosa+vitiligo&cf=all&as_qdr=m&as_drrb=q

All best, the one user who says it should be removed. Terry Foote (talk) 01:23, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

I realize the subject header here says Vitiligo but I believe to understand my argument it would be best to take a look at the diff link I gave. Thanks. --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 01:40, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Terry Foote, the content you just added is not backed up by any of the citations currently there. Right now, it looks like original research. Diff- [8] --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 17:12, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Absolutely unbelievable. I don't even think this should be in the article in the first place, then as a gesture of good will to your complaint above, I put it in. Now you're complaining - do you think I'm making this stuff up about Vitiligo? Look, if you don't like it, take it out - I don't care, nor do I have the time, or inclination to sit on Wikipedia all day debating arcane inanities. Terry Foote (talk) 17:21, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding we have here. I never said I care if Vitiligo is in the article. Like I said before, please look at the first diff I gave [9]. It does not mention Vitiligo. All I put in was about Sosa talking about the skin cream, and I was confused why that was removed "per talk page". --Omarcheeseboro (talk) 17:25, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

OK, thanks. My apologies to you as well. I didn't remove the content to begin with, nor did I make the edit about remove as per talk page. However, if this issue is going to be in the article, then we should expound upon it and give the reader some context. As it stands right now it just sounds like "and oh by the way, Sosa's skin is lighter." The web is rife with sources discussing Vitligo - I'm just particularly adept at the wiki mark-up having to do with sourcing material. If you feel so inclined, here's a good article aabout it from Huffington Post. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/07/sammy-sosas-skin-photos-p_n_349602.html All best, Terry Foote (talk) 18:44, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Back to back 60+ homer seasons

The article stated that Sosa was the first to have consecutive 60 home run seasons ('98-'99, 66 and 63), but the article indicates McGwire did this in the same seasons (70 and 65), so Sosa was the co-first.MayerG (talk) 03:40, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Whoever posted that must have forgotten about McGwire somehow. Sosa is the only one with THREE 60-homer seasons, though the third one was not consecutive. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?}

carrots→ 03:53, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Removed redundant information

Removed 'sosa was not african american' from article, as his ethnicity is noted at the top of the page. Also no mention of him being African-American appears to be made in the article at all. AJuice42 (talk) 18:44, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

When Married?

As the article reads now, he's been married since 1993, and got married in 2005. Are there 2 marriages? Could someone clear that up please?Lafong (talk) 22:14, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Haitian ancestry

This part should be left out of the lead, but may be included in the "Early years" and/or "Personal life" section. It is strictly an informational family backdrop and not what makes him notable. For those of you that reverted the many unsourced edits and content removal, thanks. @SamHolt6, C.Fred, Muboshgu, and Historiador91

DominicanRepsonse, here is Sammy's correct spelling in his own autobiography (perhaps if you were really his lawyer you would have realized this). [10] -- "Mikey". He may have amended that for an American audience, which is plausible since he became an icon here. Whatever the case, this is how it is spelled in reliable sources. Sorry. Please find the sources that can back your claim and please do not subtract without sources that can back such removals, including Sosa's ancestry, who's father is Dominican, yet with Haitian ancestry/descent as well.

I think we should request protection for this page too; it has been vandalized too frequently recently. Savvyjack23 (talk) 04:24, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

@Savvyjack23: you're right about the intro: only the country of nationality, not ethnicity, belongs in the intro. His ancestry is more correctly included in the section on his early life. Thank you for the rewrite; I like the way the new revisions to the article flow. —C.Fred (talk) 16:27, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

@Historiador91, Savvyjack23, SamHolt6, C.Fred, and Muboshgu: The lead have been changed to Haitian again by Historiador91, but there is no sources backing this claim. There is another section in this talk including this sources: A blogspot and a Wordpress blog (Saying: En ningún momento Almánzar acompañó sus aseveraciones de alguna evidencia al respecto, por lo que todo lo dicho huele a conjeturas y especulaciones. Both of them are not reliable sources, according to WP:BLOGS. The other one from Listin Diario includes a letter from a reader, that also claims that Sosa was born in Ingenio Quisqueya, but many official sources that can be found in books and newspapers always list him born in Ingenio Consuelo. Yes, that makes a letter from a reader data unreliable. There is not a single --Osplace 04:55, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Savvyjack23 (talk · contribs · logs) Have already changed 14 players to "Haitian origin". We have met before in his Haitianization project of Dominican athletes before, in the Luisito Pie article. --Osplace 05:06, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Osplace. I have overturned this edit. Savvyjack23 (talk) 19:26, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

Savvyjack23 (talk · contribs · logs) Still that reference is irrelevant. Sosa is an important person, there should be a better source in a book or another newspaper article. The problem with that source, is that is a letter, published as it, and include false information, Sosa was born in Ingenio Consuelo, not Quisqueya, like it says. Where that person found the information? Is from an investigation? Did he show any document? I would prefer to include a better reference, otherwhise remove the last paragraph you have included. --Osplace 18:05, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Osplace, just because the place of birth which could be a simple error; Quisqueya is in the same province as Consuelo in San Pedro de Macorís (it’s not like saying Santo Domingo when it ahould have said Dajabòn, which aren’t close at all) does not mean this is enough to throw out the entire source especially when the main premise relates to Haitian ancestry; a known sensitive topic among Dominicans and in my opinion, even moreso especially when somebody goes out and bleaches one’s skin, though never refutes or denies this in the numerous sources that cover him. this is a source unrelated to Sosa, which Wikipedia promotes. Unfortunately, when it comes to topics of race and ethnicity relating to that island of Hispaniola, information like this is not easy to come by and the tension between the two states can make it hush-hush or taboo to talk about. It is also not a blog, it is by a respectable Dominican journalist. It just should not be in the lead. Perhaps a verification tag should be added to it instead. It’s not about ‘’Haitianizing’’ anyone, it’s about challenging censorship and adding relevant information when it may arise. Savvyjack23 (talk) 23:29, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

——besides I just went over the source and it says that Alfonso Soriano’s father is from Ingenio Quisqueya, not Sosa rendering your point invalid. Savvyjack23 (talk) 23:55, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

Savvyjack23 Unfortunately, when it comes to topics of race and ethnicity relating to that island of Hispaniola, information like this is not easy to come by and the tension between the two states can make it hush-hush or taboo to talk about. That is a personal opinion, no further comments about this. Yes, you are right about me being wrong when I consfused places of birth of Alfonso Soriano and Sammy Sosa in Consuelo and Quisqueya, and yes the column author in Listin Diario is a respectable Dominican journalist, but not the author of the mediocre letter. Take into account that Mr. Cruz includes three letters from readers, that is not his own work. Whatever is said, is said, but lets read the letter: "40 por ciento de los jugadores de RD que han firmado para esta pelota son de origen haitiano", really? Do you picture yourself making such investigation that you can check the papers of enough baseball players (you have not to check them all, but using statistics you can arrive to such a percentage). "y a veces los dos, por lo menos en los últimos 15 ó 20 años" Yes, he have been to the papers of an amount of baseball players and sometimes both parents are from Haitian origins, in the las 15 or 20 years? No, either 15 or 20 is not valid statistic. "que su primer apellido Gilliard, no estoy seguro por el momento que se escriba así", when is he finishing the investigation about Alfonso Soriano in order to be sure? "La lista es grande, pero como estoy fuera de San Pedro de Macorís y tengo un archivo personal con toda esa relación sería en otra ocasión que se la mandaría." What happened? Where is his personal file? Does he published a book with all this important and abundant information? No, he did not. That is a terrible letter. Not a valid source, the topic is important and must be covered by a reputable source. According to WP:SOURCE, Unpublished materials are not considered reliable. All the information mentioned have not been published yet. WP:NEWSBLOG says Never use as sources the blog comments that are left by readers. If the information would come from Mr. Hector J. Cruz himself, yes, but in this case is a terrible letter from a reader. Please find a better source and we can add that information. It is important, must be covered by many sources, books, magazines, newspapers. Sammy Sosa have been scrutinized to the limit, there must be something somewhere else. --Osplace 03:18, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I already stated it was my personal opinion. Also, you are misconstruing what is considered a “published source”. This is a published source via online, Cruz’s name attached to the information rendered; this is considered a source. Just to be sure we are talking about the same content: [11]

Here’s another source regarding the many players of Haitian descent that concurs a portion of what is said in the Cruz article in regards to the last 20 years in baseball according to the President of the Confederation of Professional Baseball of the Caribbean (CBPC), Juan Francisco Puello Herrera: [12] Both sources seem to agree on that, this increases it’s chances of validity and if you mention that there are more than one author for the publishing of Cruz’s, then there are multiple people in that source who concur. A journalist isn’t going to risk his reputuation by publishing this on Listín Diario servers if it wasn’t intended to be credible information. Savvyjack23 (talk) 17:04, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Never mind, the other three authors on the page is not involved in the Haitian talks. But having multipe articles in a publishing is not incommon and furthermore, this is from 2008. It my have been on Listìn Diario proper and have since been taken down or removed and unavailable in their archives. This is why at times we have articles that look just like this one. Savvyjack23 (talk) 17:10, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Techically, this is a credible source too (by Ramón González) even though the webpage is a bit funky looking (probably due to low-cost) but it is a publishing journal. [13]

This source [14] concurs that “El Coloso de Macoris: Edicion digital del semanario El Coloso de Macorix” or in other words, a digital weekly edition publishing.

Gonzalez states that “the president of the National Human Rights Commission (CNDH), Virgilio Almánzar asserts that both parents are of Haitian descent but without giving hard evidence and evidence of his bold assertion”. Even so, this came from the President of the CNDH and why isn’t Sosa denying it or filing a lawsuit. I won’t include anything on his mother but this is another claim from a person in a reputable position; this would further give reason to his father in the least. Savvyjack23 (talk) 17:32, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

@Savvyjack23: That last source is a WordPress blog, being listed in Livio.com do not add any reputation, that would be WP:SELFPUBLISH. The last part of the opinging paragraph says: "sin aportar datos y pruebas contundente de su atrevida afirmación" without providing data and convincing evidence of his bold statement, that would be enough to make that source unreliable. Why are the sayings of such an important person be a credited source itself, if the blog says that he did not show any documents? Why the important newspapers and magazines did not covered such information? For the source from El Dinero, there is no reference to Sosa, I told you before, there are Dominican Athletes with Haitian family, there is no any problem with that situation, that source says nothing about Sosa, and talk about Dominican athletes, "La historia de deportistas dominicanos de ascendencia haitiana data de los últimos 20 años. Es más frecuente encontrarlos en el béisbol de las ligas menores," You are saying that the terrible letter found in Listin Diario is valid just because the number 20 is mentioned? Wow! You said "Both sources seem to agree on that, this increases it’s chances of validity" Terrible, you do not trust the source yourself, they agree in number 20, and clearly the articles do not agree: The terrible letter from Listin Diario says that in the last 15 or 20 years, sometimes both parents are Haitians, that is not concur, not at all that is not the way statistics works, either 15 or 20, if he have a lot of information, the saying should be accurate. You also said: "and if you mention that there are more than one author for the publishing of Cruz’s, then there are multiple people in that source who concur." No, I have not said that in any part of my writings. From the one in the Listin Diario, I took it down and told you why, you have said anything about any of my points. We are going to need an external point of view. --Osplace 18:40, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Third Opinion

A Third Opinion has been requested. The Third Opinion request is being removed as declined. There have already been more than two editors involved in the dispute. (There were four named in the declined Request for Mediation.) I recommend a Request for Comments. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:54, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Two editors have been recently involved in the dispute in the past month, but at least two other editors have edited the content within the past three months. They may be asked for their opinions (not as a formal Third Opinion, but Third Opinion isn't formal anyway). Robert McClenon (talk) 21:00, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon:, Neither @Historiador91 and C.Fred: have returned to reply any comment. That is why the RFM was declined. Seems that only Savvyjack23 was willing to take part, and thats why I have requested the 3O. Osplace 17:03, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

User:Osplace - What exactly is the question? In my opinion, which is not a Third Opinion, the lede should not mention Haitian ancestry, because it is not important, and it doesn't mention it. (It isn't that important, except to people of ancestry from Hispaniola, and genealogists, which side of Hispaniola his ancestors came from.) It says that his father's family is of Haitian ancestry, with a source. How reliable is a source that says anything about his mother's family? Robert McClenon (talk) 18:04, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

I still recommend the use of a Request for Comments. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:04, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon: The source is unreliable at all. I have stated that any reliable source about that point have been given. --Osplace 22:49, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

User:Osplace and others - Questions about the reliability of a source may be discussed at the reliable source noticeboard. Otherwise, you may use an RFC. I have given my opinion and have no further involvement. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:01, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

This is a matter of ethnicity, and thus the BLP discussions on sourcing for ethnicity claims apply. In short - as there is no self-identification given, and the source given is clearly a "weak source", we must not ascribe specific ethnicity to Sosa. Collect (talk) 17:01, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your third opinion Collect, even though I disagree that this is a "weak source". Based on your reasoning that BLP discussions on sourcing for ethnicity claims apply (which I am unable to locate where you found this clause), Osplace has taken it upon himself to not only venture to other articles to remove this source, but also did so to articles which had supporting source(s) to follow, such as in: Alfonso Guilleard Soriano Domingo Jean Esteban Yan, and also Haitians in the Dominican Republic when the source was not rendering to a specific "living biography", instead on "numerical statistics" that the publishing party collected in a macro-sense. If by weak source, you meant "biography-wise", then that is a position I still challenge, but in no way can we prove this is a weak source from data it has collected in terms of Haitian athletes in the Dominican Baseball System. This was the type of "trigger-happy" response from Osplace I had hoped to prevent. In no way, does a "fourth opinion" (Bana2166 was actually the contributing 3rd opinion who originally founded the discussion of Sosa's ethnicity; see: Sammy Sosa#Sammy Sosa of Haitian descent) should effect separate unrelated articles to this (even though similar).

Can you please locate for me "BLP discussions on sourcing for ethnicity claims apply; there is no self-identification given", because other than that, it is merely a weak source (to you). Thank you kindly. Savvyjack23 (talk) 21:15, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

To add, if Cruz' source [15] (a 2008 achieve from a reputable newspaper publishing) was such a "weak" one, it would not agree with sources like El Dinero and Hoy, two reputable publications (not to mention a "second" editor from Listin Diario [16]), in terms of Haitian athletes in the Dominican Baseball system, which has relatively been an unknown topic that I seek to help uncover. From a biography perspective, many of them share the same names as well. Savvyjack23 (talk) 21:29, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

As the search function works on Wikipedia, and there are over a thousand pages where the issues have been discussed (especially with labelling people as "Jewish" when they do not self-identify as such) such a list of all cites is impracticable. The only good source for "ethnicity" for any living person is what the person says their ethnicity is. Collect (talk) 15:31, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Though Collect, you have yet to provide one example, nor have you cited where this would be disallowed especially if the source is from a reputable function (not self-publishing!) such as this online newspaper archieve. I would imagine Jewish would be a bit tricky as it is not only an ethnic category but also a religious one even if the person is non-religious. Savvyjack23 (talk) 01:24, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

I suggest you not attack me as an editor as being a misuse of this talk page.. I, in fact, suggest you ask at WP:BLP/N or any other biography-pertinent noticeboard as to whether ethnicity is best left to self-identification. Collect (talk) 00:57, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Savvyjack23, Robert McClenon, Collect Why I am being mentioned in a discussion about other articles, not Sammy Sosa, in here? This matter was not decided by Third Opinion, but in BLP Noticeboard and largely in Reliable Sources Noticeboard, were that SOURCE was found against WP:SPS and not allowed to use, it means not only to claim Sammy Sosa Haitian ancestry, but anyone's. Am I right Darkfrog24 and Only in death? Well, I am not a happy trigger, but just editing according the current policies. I am sorry, but the Sammy Sosa Haitian ancestry is closed, please do not call me here for that again. Thanks to all editors involved willing to help, --Osplace 17:50, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

User:Osplace - I do not understand what the issue is. In biographies of living persons, contentious material that cannot be supported by a reliable source should be removed. Please be aware that ArbCom discretionary sanctions apply to disruptive editing of biographies of living persons. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:18, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

User:Robert McClenon I am not including any contentious material, User Savvyjack23 is. He have been trying to include Haitian anscestry to this article and many others, any of them have ever expressed or identified themselves as Haitians, have tried to include sources that were posted in the BLP Noticeboard and foud unsusables. I am not including anything. I am just expressing myself thanks for all editors involved in the removal of such contentious material without references. Thanks again. --Osplace 19:30, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

User:Osplace - User:Savvyjack23 has also been warned. All editors should be on notice that disruptive editing of biographies of living persons may result in sanctions. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:31, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

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grammar

"Sosa to be on the bench who weren't in the starting lineup" -? Kdammers (talk) 15:36, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Not sure this is a "Talk" issue - please feel free to BE BOLD and fix the grammar issue. Ckruschke (talk)Ckruschke

I can't be bold here because the sentence is so messed up that I don't understand it. Kdammers (talk) 19:01, 3 October 2022 (UTC)

Sammy sosa

When did Sammy sosa die? 99.90.55.130 (talk) 23:17, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

He hasn't. Jip Orlando (talk) 23:25, 11 October 2023 (UTC)