Talk:Netscape Browser

Merge back to Netscape Navigator?

Since Netscape Browser will be officially referred as Netscappe 8, should we merge this article back to Netscape Navigator? --Minghong 06:12, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I vote against that, as Netscape 8 is quite different than Netscape Navigator 6/7. There's no need to confuse NN6/7 (essentially Mozilla with AOL) with this new N8 (Firefox + IE + AOL). Jordi·✆ 07:38, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I think it should be merged back. Netscape Navigator covers all versions of Netscape through 7.2. The jump from 4.7 to 6.0 was arguably an even larger jump than the jump from 7.x to 8.0 so I see no reason why Netscape 8 shouldn't be part of the same article. Aoi 19:23, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Well, I personally think it will be good to merge the two articles, but if you do it, DON'T FORGET TO RENAME THE ARTICLE to Netscape Browser! This would be like in the article about Cartoon Network Studios, the name of which has been changed because the studio has changed its name from Hanna-Barbera. In this case it's almost the same - the browser was previously called Navigator, but now is known as Netscape Browser.--Megara 21:34, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Then probably better not merge them. IMO, Netscape Navigator should be used for Netscape Navigator/Communicator 4.x or later; Netscape Suite (or simply Netscape) for Netscape 6/7; and Netscape Browser for Netscape Browser 8 (or above, which I don't think is possible). We really have a messy Netscape history here... --Minghong 20:10, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Well, considering Netscape's odd history, perhaps it might help to have a "parent" article with a brief description of each, focusing more on the story of Netscape's development as a whole, then with each major phase of development of the browser put in separate articles, as Minghong describes above. If we simply divide the current article into three different articles without a page describing the history of Netscape's software as a whole, then it might confuse some people. Aoi 09:03, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I agree that there needs to be an article describing Netscape's history from 1 to 8, even if the detailed info is divided into separate pages. The reason for this is that Netscape Navigator and Netscape Browser are actually the same piece of software, that just evolved through the years. It is not proper to simply see them as two different browsers. As for Communicator, Netscape Navigator was PART of it, but it is a software package consisting of several products that should be described in another article. Well, that's how I see it... Hope it helps! --Megara 22:18, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

FYI, the official names of the full released Netscape products have been:

• Netscape Navigator (version 1.0-3.04)
• Netscape Communicator (version 4.0-4.8)
• Netscape 6 (version 6.0-6.2.3)
• Netscape (version 7.0-7.2)
• Netscape Browser (version 8.0+)

See Netscape

I think we should at least wait for the final version of Netscape 8 to come out before we merge them. This page is about an ongoing product which for all we know could be canceled in a week. Once the final version comes out and we see where the go with this we should figure out how to deal with it. -DNewhall

We can use Netscape (web browser) to point to the various "types" of Netscape browsers. --Minghong 08:14, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Well, I personally don't think they'll cancel it, because now they're even advertising it on the Netscape Browser Central [1]. But you're probably right, as we don't even know how the final version's going to be called. After it is released, we will be able to decide better what to do with de articles. Untill then, there is a reference to Netscape Browser in the Netscape Navigator article. --Megara 21:54, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

There is no reason for our article structure to be fragmented by AOL/Netscape's arbitrary renamings. Please see my suggestion at Talk:Netscape/Archives/2012#Names_and_version_numbers. – Smyth\^talk 10:00, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

AOL instant messenger

The article currently states that NS8 includes AIM ("and other AOL-related features"), but other sources seem to indicate the opposite. Can someone who's actually used the full release version state authoritatively whether this is the case? And if not, did this change during development, or was the statement just misinformed? - IMSoP 19:17, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Netscape Browser has XUL version of AIM. --minghong 09:24, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

Netscape's integration of Trident

How did AOL/Mercurial manage to get their hands on the Trident source code so they could integrate it into Netscape? I doubt that Microsoft has open-sourced Trident. Why did Microsoft agree to allow AOL/Mercurial to create a "hybrid browser" where its renderer plays second fiddle to Mozilla's? Since only whitelisted sites use the Trident engine by default, the implication is that Trident is less secure than Gecko -- which puts Microsoft in a bad light.

I was hoping to find answers to these questions when I visited this article. Hopefully the article can be expanded in this direction.

It doesn't need to get the source code of IE. A Windows application can embed the trident engine simply by calling the corresponsing DLL files. But this information is not suitable for this article. Maybe someone can expand more on this in the Trident (layout engine) or Internet Explorer shell article. --minghong 29 June 2005 13:11 (UTC)

Oops, I got this infomation into this article. But despite that, the two engines share cookies, as I tried logging into Wikipedia using Gecko than switch to Trident, and I'm still logged in.--Kakurady 10:58, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I think it may be more than just "embedding the ActiveX control" - in their 2003 settlement with Microsoft, AOL gained "a royalty-free, seven-year license to use Microsoft's Internet Explorer technologies with the AOL client" [Press Release]. It's not clear to me whether this amounts to them actually having privileged technical information or tools unavailable to other parties, or only the legal ability to redistribute the technology - it certainly doesn't mean MS gave them the source, but an ActiveX control makes it sound a little too simple... - IMSoP 15:33, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

The NPOV Tag

Reading through this article, especially the criticisms section, it's blatantly anti-AOL in every way. If someone could rewrite some parts of this (especially the criticisms section), it would be a great help. I might do it myself sometime if no one else can, but I really don't know much about the program.

If you don't know much about this program, why are you putting NPOV tag to this article? Well… anyway… --minghong 10:50, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

I don't know specific enough information to rewrite (mainly) the Criticisms section. Kertrats 18:46, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

You could always just remove that section. --Tomhaney 02:30, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

The criticism

" As the switching is transparent to the user, users are left wondering why their experience changes randomly across different websites [1]."

From my limited use of Netscape 8, an icon on the tabs did indeed show which renderer it was using. Or maybe the icon was somewhere else, but I recall knowing in which mode I browsed.

I use Netscape 8.1 as my default browser, and the browsing engine is indeed clearly displayed on the status bar at the bottom of the screen. The Security Center is also more central to the browser, and Netscape 8.1 now has a spyware scanner and Anti-Fraud protection. -- Profnick 1:59 7 February 2006 (UTC)

"Inevitably, users have also criticised both the omission of associated applications such as an email client and HTML editor and the inclusion by default of features like a live weather report and news ticker. The former is argued to be a removal of functionality that loyal Netscape users have come to expect, the latter "software bloat" which new users will not appreciate."

I don't understand why this is pointed out specifically, as the reverse can equally well hold true -- live weather reports and news tickers may be wanted for a browser to provide live information, while entire email clients and HTML editors (!) may be considered the actual unwanted bloat here. It's a kind of criticism I feel is more written by an author that specifically disliked this, which lowers my opinion of the criticism, and I honestly think speaking of bloat when saying it doesn't have these applications speaks too much of mere individual preferences and shouldn't need to be included here.

"Another criticism is this the browser collects user browsing behaviour without user consent. By default, the option "Allow Netscape to gather anonymous browser usage statistics" is enabled. The option is hidden in the "Advanced Settings" during installation. As most casual users will just skip the dialogs during installation, this "spyware" feature would be turned on in many installations of Netscape Browser."

This isn't spyware assuming it really is anonymous data that's being sent. IMHO, another word need to be found for this, or the part scrapped. -- Jugalator 13:52, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, I've now made these changes to try and solve some NPOV issues, or issues with a bit too one-sided opinions. -- Jugalator 15:06, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I've made several wording and version-based changes, some of which nullify some criticisms listed. Furthermore, the majority of the criticisms listed here come from one individual's blog, yet were (and some still are) stated as being widely held opinions, despite the lack of cited evidence to back up that claim. Thus, I propose that we look for more supporting opinions for these criticisms, or note that they come mainly from one source -- Profnick 03:33, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Too much focus on the criticism, which comes from a direct competitor. I wouldn't expect a competitor's criticism to dominate an entry like this. --Tomhaney 02:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Reference for Gecko & Trident Vulnerability

Hey everyone, I tried my best to add it to the article without breaking any of your fine work, but I might have botched it a bit, my reference shows up as a [1] on the article. I just tried to reverse engineer (if you will) what everyone else did, maybe someone could bail me out and show me how to correct it so I don't break anything else. I figured that I'd hazard a try since I found a source about the two engines and security problems. --SeanWDP

Template proposal

I propose a template to be used accross all Netscape-related articles, as at the moment they're poorly intergrated and quite confusing. If anybody feels against the template being used, please say so or edit it. If there is support, I will implement it in Template:Netscape. It is based on the one for Mozilla, so I might tidy it up a bit if need be. Marbles 17:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Netscape-logo.png

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BetacommandBot 07:12, 7 November 2007 (UTC)