Talk:Phaseolus vulgaris

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Phaseolus vulgaris 'Tongue of Fire' was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 14 June 2016 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Phaseolus vulgaris. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Table layout[edit]

@Zefr: This layout was almost perfect, and I'd like to work towards restoring it. I understand the tables needed updating, and thank you for that, but I don't see why you shuffled their format in such a non-standard manner. Maybe it looked right on your screen, but I assure you that they were all over the place on my high-res desktop, and only marginally better on a mid-res tablet. Some whitespace is much better than floating tables fighting for space with images on the right margin. No such user (talk) 10:18, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No such user. I was judging alignment and white space on my high-res screen and chromebook where both displayed my revision as fine. I use centered column numbers on numerous other tables with no problems, and will retry to center these to improve the column display. Please check. Otherwise, I'll leave this alone now as a compromise. Thanks for your input. --Zefr (talk) 15:56, 30 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ambiguous 'these'[edit]

All wild members of the species have a climbing habit, but many cultivars are classified either as bush beans or dwarf beans, or as pole beans or climbing beans, depending on their style of growth. These include the kidney bean, the navy bean, the pinto bean, and the wax bean.

Possible antecedents:

wild members of the species — main topic antecedent
wild/cultivated beans (collectively) of "the climbing habit" — thematic antecedent
many cultivars — grammatical antecedent
climbing beans — proximal antecedent (if "these" belonged after a semicolon)

None of these solutions are anywhere close to acceptable in this venue. — MaxEnt 19:29, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

the common bean (is a highly variable) — distal antecedent

Perhaps that entire digression into climbing habits was an intrusion. — MaxEnt 19:33, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Bean-haters?[edit]

Seriously? No such user, what are you talking about? The topic is beans, so there are no "primary sources" since beans have no way to produce any sources at all. Your insistence otherwise is absurd. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 16:49, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As is clear if WP:PST is read carefully it's not directly relevant to scientific topics. The essay Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (science) is more useful. It's a pity that it's not a guideline, unlike Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (medicine), but it covers comparable ground. Peter coxhead (talk) 18:10, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We have thousands of taxon articles that are based on primary peer-reviewed sources only, and the community is completely fine with it. A secondary source wouldn't hurt but it's certainly not required here. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 18:32, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
From WP:PRIMARY: a scientific paper documenting a new experiment conducted by the author is a primary source on the outcome of that experiment. The tagged sentence, in its entirety, reads Phaseolus vulgaris has been found to bio-accumulate zinc, manganese, and iron and have some tolerance to their respective toxicities, suggesting suitability for natural bio-remediation of heavy metal contaminated soils and is based on research on a polluted site in India. A proper secondary source would inform us whether it's suitable or not; as it is now, it's just a researchers' supposition that I'm inclined to remove rather than untag. "Bean-haters" was obviously a tongue in cheek. No such user (talk) 19:50, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The problematic part, in my view, is the speculation – we don't report suppositions. So definitely remove the clause beginning suggesting. A speculation in a secondary source would be no different. Primary or secondary isn't the issue here. Peter coxhead (talk) 21:42, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

...I'm sorry, what? This is the interpretation of a finding of a research study, by the researchers themselves. Of course their conclusion is phrased as a "suggestion" - such conclusions always are. I have yet to see an ecology paper that does not draw its main conclusion by using some variation of the phrase "Our results indicate..." or "These findings suggest...". It's absolutely not an indication of unsupportable speculation. Jeepers. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 21:54, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The question is whether the suggestion is noteworthy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedic reference; we don't attempt to report everything ever said about a topic. In my judgement, the suggestion is based on too little evidence to be noteworthy. Others may disagree. So what is the consensus view? Peter coxhead (talk) 06:19, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What Peter said. If beans were widely known for their bio-accumulation of heavy metals and already used for remediation of polluted sites, that would certainly be recorded in a secondary source pertaining e.g. bioremediation; for example, white mulberry (Morus alba) and Thlaspi are mentioned in Mycorrhizal bioremediation as (relatively) proven agents. But here, it's just a suggestion, and I agree that there's too little evidence to justify inclusion. Remember Why Most Published Research Findings Are False. No such user (talk) 07:00, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

...digging deeper, we have an article on hyperaccumulators with three extensive lists of known species, and P. vulgaris is not mentioned in any (Phaseolus acutifolius is in #3). Granted, Wikipedia is not a reliable source, but the authors seem to have invested a lot of research and the common bean would surely be an obvious candidate for inclusion if it were well-known. No such user (talk) 07:11, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nutritional tables[edit]

I added the nutritional tables for both green beans and dry beans, because they are so different in nutritional content. Could someone put those two tables side by side for easy comparisons? I don't know how to do that. Thank you! WikiUser70176 (talk) 16:38, 13 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Red beans are not the same as kidney beans[edit]

I see that this issue has been raised on the talk page before and got no response.

The two kinds of beans are similar and largely interchangeable, but red beans are smaller and taste different. If they were the same, then they would be packaged and sold as such.

[1] [2] [3] [4] [5]

I think some of these sources are reliable enough that I am tempted to be bold and change the article myself. Richard K. Carson (talk) 23:29, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Richard K. Carson: the names used in commercial sources can be confusing. The term "red kidney" is used in several of the sources you've listed, so to say that "red beans" are not the same as "kidney beans" is tricky. However, I agree that a distinction is made in US sources between at least two kinds of reddish kidney-shaped beans, larger ones and smaller ones. Quite how to capture this in the table isn't clear to me. Peter coxhead (talk) 06:27, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cultivars and varieties table: redundant section for "Peruano" covers same bean as Yellow (Enola type).[edit]

Cultivars and varieties Table row Peruano can be merged into table row Yellow (Enola type), which covers the same bean in more detail. ChgoJohn (talk) 02:47, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]