Talk:Matriarchy

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 January 2021 and 15 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Oliviajones14.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 03:37, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed Additions and Changes[edit]

I would like to add to this article in the coming weeks. I will be primarily updating the 20-21st century section under history and distribution. I am doing this because this article has content gaps when it comes to matriarchies that still exist today. It briefly mentions the Umoja community, but it does not mention any other matriarchies that exist today. I plan on then revising other parts of the history section to include more contextualization and background information. Feel free to look at the annotated bibliography in my sandbox to see what sources I will be referencing. Oliviajones14 (talk) 03:20, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Please be aware that it's highly controversial whether any true matriarchies (in a sense that would be symmetrical with patriarchy -- i.e. women dominating positions of power in a society,and effectively excluding men from the public sphere) exist or have ever existed. AnonMoos (talk) 01:07, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I will make sure to explain that some scholars do not consider true matriarchies to have ever existed in the content I add. Furthermore, these differing definitions of matriarchy are explained in detail in the "Definitions, Connotations, and Etymology" section, along with an explanation as to why some consider matriarchies to exist and others not. Also clarified in this section is why many experts don't consider matriarchy to be a term parallel to patriarchy. Oliviajones14 (talk) 17:09, 10 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oliviajones14, thank you for your addition! I have some questions about the Mosuo section: first, is there a reason to prefer "Mosou" over "Mosuo" in this section. Our article on the group is titled "Mosuo". Second, is the source date for the ref named ":1" correct? It's labeled as a year 2000 source but used to source an "as of 2016" claim. Thanks again! Firefangledfeathers (talk) 04:52, 13 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The spelling of "Mosuo" as "Mosou" was a typo I have now corrected. Thank you for catching that. The source you mentioned should be cited as it explains how daughters are heirs, but I added the other source published in 2016 from the following sentence that dates this practice. I have corrected it so that both are cited following that sentence. Thank you for clarifying that I have correctly sourced my additions. Oliviajones14 (talk) 19:32, 13 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Female-Led Relationship[edit]

Female-Led Relationship redirects here, but there is no mention of the contemporary phrase. Thoughts on adding something? And, if so, what reliable sources to use? Thanks. --Surv1v4l1st ^{+Talk|Contribs+} 01:11, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The same term, but in lower case, redirects to Dominatrix. Solutions?--Surv1v4l1st ^{+Talk+Contribs+} 22:25, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Matriarchy in its most valid or classical meaning refers to an entire society or culture where women have leading roles. "Female-led relationship" is a couples practice, not an entire society. Dominatrix is not a great link either, because dominatrixes often exist outside couples relationships. The article Dominatrix does contain a section titled "Professional vs. personal", but this actually contains very little material on the personal non-professional side. If there were a separate article on "femdom" or "female dominance", that would be the best article to redirect to, but "femdom" is itself a redirect to "dominatrix", which is moderately annoying... AnonMoos (talk) 11:11, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the thoughts. Much appreciated. I too am not seeing a great place to cover the topic either. It did cross my mind, of course, to start an article related to the couples practice, rather than an entire society (Matriarchy) or a given sexual practice (BDSM-related). However, I am not positive there is enough reliable coverage in good sources. There has certainly been plenty of ink spilled about the relationship model, but the majority don't likely meet WP guidelines. Anywho, I have some other projects to attend to before circling back to FLRs. Thanks again for the thoughts. Cheers. --Surv1v4l1st ^{╠Talk║Contribs╣} 22:42, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not "citespam" per WP:SPAM[edit]

Hi everyone. I recently had two of my edits to this article deleted claiming they were "citespam", and yet it did not fit the definition of that per WP:SPAM. The additions were 100% relevant to the topic and simply added citations and information about additional advocates. Ajax151 (talk) 01:00, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Don't fudge the meaning of "matriarchy".[edit]

My comments are in response to the following portion of the current (12/20/22) version of this article (between the asterisks):

* * * * *
"The word matriarchy, for a society politically led by females, especially mothers, who also control property, is often interpreted to mean the genderal opposite of patriarchy, but it is not an opposite.[9][10][11] According to Peoples and Bailey, the view of anthropologist Peggy Reeves Sanday is that matriarchies are not a mirror form of patriarchies but rather that a matriarchy "emphasizes maternal meanings where 'maternal symbols are linked to social practices influencing the lives of both sexes and where women play a central role in these practices'."

* * * *

This is patent B.S. If patriarchy is defined as "rule by men" (and it certainly is) then matriarchy must be defined as."rule by women". Because there is no hard evidence of societies ruled by women, now or in the past, feminist ideologues (female and male) pull the ham-handed switcheroo of mis-defining matriarchy as male-female egalitarian rule. Again, B.S. The intellectual dishonesty of this maneuver is breathtaking. 2600:1011:B010:DAEF:DC3E:99DF:C822:52B4 (talk) 11:59, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not necessarily defending the passage (I don't know much about the trend of thought that it represents), but there's great skepticism among well-informed people about whether any true matriarchal society (in the sense that women exclude men from the public sphere and from positions of acknowledged authority) has ever existed, so if matriarchy is defined strictly, then not much would fall under the term, except for 19th-century anthropological speculations (later revealed to be false if interpreted as factual history) and 1970s radical feminist imagined utopias... AnonMoos (talk) 00:09, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]