Talk:Magars

For Your Information

There are information scattered here and there about Magars but some of them are not based on evidence, some are incomplete, some contradict with each others, and moreover information are missing in between the periods of history. There is a need for a much detailed research on the history, origin, language, culture of this community. Does any one have the idea of how it is possible. Is there someone interested in this work. I think it will be a great research work. Dr. Govind P. Thapa, 27 Mar 2004

• • They seem to have migrated many centuries/millenia ago from Tibet but that does not make them Tibetan. The Magars are not Tibetan. But they speak Tibeto-Burman language. You can not call Native Americans Asians eventhough they migrated from Asia.Can you call Khas people Iranian or even Indian ethnic? No.They migrated from Iran through Afganstan and India but you should not call them Afgani etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Limbkira (talk • contribs) 10:03, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
  • None has said that the Magars are Tibetan stock. But the Magars of Nepal are also not from India or southern plains. Three points should be taken into consideration: a) language, b) culture and c) origin. These thee indicators well attest that the Magars of Nepal or Bhutan or India are originally not from southern plains nor from India.
  • The Wikipedia is asking whether the main article is neutral. Is there anything biased in the article ? If so, what is that ? What has made the article biased WIKIPEDIA should tell us. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rana1616 (talk • contribs) 06:05, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

The article is being used to make nationalistic claims. It is not written from NPOV (Neutral Point Of View), very important in an encyclopedia! Maybe this problem is easier to understand if you look at the history of the Chhetri article. Until a few months ago this article also had nationalistic claims, which have been flagged and deleted so the Chhetri article is better now.

One example is claims that words like "Dhaulagiri", "Kot", "Chomolungma", "Lhotse" and "Dhankuta" are Magar words when there are much better explanations in Sanskrit, Pahari languages and Tibetan. If you had NPOV you would at least mention these other explanations of the words; instead the article has one-sided attempts to make up Magar origins for the words.

I'm not saying Magars should not promote their nation, but Wikipedia is not the right place to do it. LADave (talk) 06:52, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

The article is inconsistent. In the first paragraph it says that some 70% are buddhist; in religion section it says majority of them are hindus! Soham (talk) 15:59, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

History section

It should be rewritten to accommodate Wikipedia NPOV policy. Ed8r (talk) 17:12, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

"The Magars" vs. "Magars" in title

I moved the title to just "Magars", and it was moved back with the following comment: {cquote|'Magars' are people in general. They live in different parts of the world. Since they are some people, they need some definite identifier/modifier such as 'THE' but we can't just write MAGR or A MAGAR or AN* Magar etc.}

I would argue this is incorrect. None of the above arguments justify a "the" in the title. Plenty of group/tribe/culture names used with "the" in English do not have it as a title: Celts, Huns, Assyrian. There is no valid reason to have "The" in the title that I am familiar with. Unless the complainant can cite some clear Wikipedia policy indicating a need for "The", I'll move it back to just "Magars" to conform with other Wikipedia titles. MatthewVanitas (talk) 06:04, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay, you would move back to whatever you liked but still you may write 'the Huns' instead 'Huns' only. I have no idea whether you have checked any ethnographic values in between the Huns in Hungarian Magyars and the Puns in Nepalese Magars. Actually, now I would like you to check Gyula Laszlo's 'THE MAGYARS, Their Life and Civilization' 1996. I would assume you have fair knowledge of the Magars of Nepal, Bhutan and India and the Magyars of Hungary also. It is not only Assyrians but a new assertion is that in Sumerian - 'Magar' means ' the people of knowledge'.

It seems to me somebody, not native Magar, has posted the main article. And there are some sub-heading posts, such as 'Notable Magars' etc. We found some names which were never heard before. What makes a Magar notable in his/her community as well as others ? The simple answer should be how much s/he has contributed to their community and nation as the whole. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rana1616 (talk • contribs) 06:21, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with knowledge of the Magars or lack thereof; I'd never heard of them prior to coming to this article. It's purely a formatting issue: Wikipedia articles about groups of people simply aren't filed by "The". MatthewVanitas (talk) 08:49, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

The Magars are central to Nepal's history

Understanding Magar history and culture seems essential to a deeper understanding of Nepal's political evolution over the past 400 years or more. Magars seem to first appear as "Kham" which perhaps refers to a kingdom that existed alongside the "Khas" in far western Nepal. The Khas may have been rice-growing Aryans in the Karnali-Bheri basin, while the Tibeto-Burman Kham kingdom occupied the less fertile highlands between there and the Gandaki basin which are now Pyuthan, Rolpa, Salyan and Rukkum districts in Rapti Zone.

Apparently the Shah family -- who seem to have Thakuri ancestors from the Karnali-Bheri region as well as Rajput ancestors from India -- were part of the Aryan migration bypassing the Kham/Rapti highlands to settle in the less elevated Gandaki basin that was also nicely suited to rice cultivation. Apparently there was contemporary or possibly earlier movement of Kham peoples into the Gandaki basin who became "Magars". Did they possibly accompany ancestors of the Shahs?

In any event, Magars were integrated into the military system that unified the country and became politically aligned with the Shah dynasty, whereas Kham peoples remaining in the Rapti highlands do not seem to have entered a symbiotic relationship with the Shahs -- and lately became a large part of the Maobadi rank and file.

Clarification Magar people are not Mongolian or Tibetan. Mongols and Tibetans have their own distinct culture, language. Magar people are just Magar People and are unique to NEPAL. Same logic applies to all native Nepalese who are being linked to Mongolia etc due to their Oriental physical features. Just like Japanese, Chinese, Thais, Malaysians, Tibetans, Chinese, Nagas, Mizos, Ahoms, Bhutanese, Sikkimese, etc. Native inhabitants of NEPAL notably the Magars, Gurungs, Kirats, Newa, etc possess oriental features and attempts of linking them to Mongolia or China are just figment of imagination of few people with vested interests. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rockgarden3 (talk • contribs) 11:14, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

"Influence of Magar on Nepali" flagged for not enough references, neutrality, questionable claims

Although I am always interested in reading about Magars and I feel like we are really neighbors after I lived two years in Pyuthan, I am worried that this section is trying to make the maximum possible claims of influence from Magarkura to Nepali. Articles in Wikipedia need to have a neutral point of view.

Some claims are difficult to accept.

• "Dhaulagiri (Dhaula-difficult, gi-following down, ri-water)" But in Sanskrit धवल (dhawala) means dazzling, white, beautiful and गिरि (giri) means mountain, which is exactly what you can see from the Middle Hills and even from many places in Bihar and U.P.
• Chomolungma (cracked peak) - Most people say this is really a Tibetan word meaning "Goddess mother of the world" or something similar. It seems unlikely that Chomolungma is a Magar word meaning "cracked peak", but I am not one to say it is impossible. Nevertheless until more people accept this explanation, it is a fringe theory. Wikipedia policy is against making fringe theories seem more widely accepted than they truly are. You probably should not write about a point of view that is only conjecture or slightly possible, without first writing about views that are held by more people.
• "Lhotse (a cone-shaped container made of corn-cob cover)". But the peaks near Sagarmatha/Chomolungma/Everest seem to be Tibetan words. I don't speak this language but I have read that Cholatse means "north peak", Lhotse means "south peak" and Nuptse means "west peak" and it all seems to make sense. Again, claiming that Lhotse really comes from Magarkura seems like a fringe theory.
• "Kanchanjunga (clear peak)" - The Wikipedia articles says it means "The Five Treasures of Snows" which are gold, silver, gems, grain, and holy books. Is "clear peak" another fringe theory?
• "Kot/Koi (place where government administration is conducted)" - There is a Pathankot in India, near the meeting point of Punjab, Himachal and Jammu/Kashmir states. This is about 500 km. from Nepal, far west of any historic Magar lands! The name is said to mean "Fort of the Pathans". How can "kot" be a word that was first in Magarkura? It seems more likely that Magarkura borrowed it from other languages.
• "Dhankuta (place above a cliff)" - Dhankuta is 250 km. east of Dhading, far outside any historic Magarath. Also धान​ means "rice" and कुट्नु means to beat or husk it. I don't pretend to know the history of this town, but the ordinary Nepali explanation seems more likely!

I am ready to believe that many place names east of the Karnali, across the Rapti and into the Gandaki basin came from Khamkura and Magarkura. There are so many streams and rivers ending in -Di or -ri, and so many villages and towns ending in -bang. There must be other words from Khamkura/Magarkura that I haven't recognized. I am always hoping to find a good article or book about this. But when I see claims of Magar roots for words I am pretty sure come from Sanskrit/Hindi/Nepal or from Tibetan, I think the opportunity to tell the world about Magar history is being wasted with wild claims. Maybe the problem is Nationalism or Irredentism. I hope the people who wrote this article will look at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view and WP:NOTPROMOTION too.

Another problem - there is only a reference to one book or article, written by a politician who represents Rolpa, and it seems to be in Nepali. Maybe this person is a strong advocate of local interests - Rolpa and Magar people? There is nothing wrong with being a strong advocate, but I would not expect such a person to write about what they advocate in a neutral, balanced way. According to the Wikipedia article about this writer Balaram Gharti Magar he has little formal education. Again, there is nothing wrong with that. The famous U.S. President Abraham Lincoln didn't have a lot of formal education either. But writing balanced, neutral articles is not a skill we are born with; it comes with formal education (if at all). Although I can't go to a local library in the USA and find any book by BGhM, I have to wonder if his books are good sources for Wikipedia articles. LADave (talk) 23:05, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Magars are always being misconnected to Tibet or to the other Mongolian castes such as Gurung, Tamang or Sherpa, which is totally biased and false. Just because Magars have similar looking like these castes, we cannot be compared with these people. We Magars are totally different in the history, culture and language. We are probably migrated from east Asian nations such as Burma but not in case we are migrated northern parts of Asia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.106.103.221 (talk) 17:39, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Major cleanup/chop done today

Just for reference, I went through today and did some (almost entirely organisational) cleanup. I didn't do much copyediting, but did remove some challenged statements, uncited items, condensed some sprawling sections, hid redlinked names, etc. So if you're looking to expand the article, take a glance at the version before today to see if there's anything that can be salvaged. MatthewVanitas (talk) 16:19, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Mixture

I think magars are now mixture of indo-aryan and tibetean ancester.We cannot say that they are belived to have migrated and of course it doesn't sound good because magar is unique caste formed(or originated) in Nepal and distributed.There is always chance of being mixed with indo-aryan cultures in every ethinic group of Nepal.I also think that the articles like this article is made on the basis of practicle beleif rather than deep investigationJojolpa (talk) 02:13, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

You are totally wrong. Magar Men didn't marry with the women of Indo-Aryan People. It is the Chhetri Caste which is mixture of most ethnic and castes of Nepal. Magars used to convert into the Chhetri. If Magar was a mixture of Indo-Aryan and Tibetan , There will be more magars with aryan features rather than mongoloid features. Magar is of Mongoloid features but they aren't Mongol origin or Sino Tibetan origin. They are indigenous to the Nepal. They were migrated from the africa and evloved in the nepal. Magars are linguistically closer to the Raute and Kusunda as well as the chepang and dura. Some of the Tharus also closer to the Magar Community. They are very native to the Nepal unlike other ethnics. Darkyukhim (talk) 05:15, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Magar people in Bhutan

Didn't some Magar people live in Bhutan? If so, why isn't the word "Bhutan" mentioned in this article? 173.89.236.187 (talk) 04:12, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Magars during the 36th Magar Day Celebration, Kathmandu, Nepal.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:22, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

Correct Transl Language

Hello. I listed two words ("kacchad" and "mujetro") as transliterated from the Nepali language. I took that from context from the topic that the article revolves around (the Magar people of Nepal), but please correct me if these terms are from a different language. Thanks!

Edit: Also, I changed "naick" to "naik", please verify that that is correct as well if you can.

CodeMyGame Wiki (talk) 18:18, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Magar dress.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:39, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Magars of Nepal.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:38, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

This article is a disaster

This article is in an urgent need of complete re-writing using sources of scholarly standard.

I had to remove the entire section named "Magar words in use" which was full of mystification not standing up to Wikipedia standards and relying on sources not written by people with linguistic background. It wanted to give a list of place names used in Nepali language and purportedly being of Magar origin, but it failed to do so (the fact that many places where Magar chieftains ruled have "kot" in their name does not mean that is a Magar word - in fact it is an Indo-Aryan word common all over south Asia) on one hand, and failed to say so in the section title on the other hand.

The religion section is really sub-standard and waits for someone with time to glean info from _scholarly_ literature, not from writings by local hobby authors. Yak-indolog (talk) 23:41, 25 March 2023 (UTC)