Talk:Cangjie input method

HEY!

The word BASIC ("a basic character component") in the first part of the article is BEHIND the Picture!!!

 I tried moving it by just pressing enter but it did not work

and it would be, I admit, quite unorthodox.

I just don't know how to fix it properly. Someone please do so!

Thanks

It looks ok to me. Which browser do you have? How wide is your browser window? Mlewan (talk) 01:05, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Simplified vs. Traditional

I don't agree this input method is "erroneously" spelled as "Changjei". "Cangjie" is Pinyin which is used in the mainland China but not Taiwan. The name "Changjei" can be found in Windows 3.1 Traditional Chinese version. Kamwah (talk) 10:17, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

It is silly to include Simplified Chinese example in this article when the method is based on traditional Chinese writing. 67.117.82.1 23:21, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

I replaced the examples with Traditional Chinese. Simplified Chinese is not native text to this article. Only traditional Chinese makes sense here. 67.117.82.1 18:09, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Get your facts straight before editing the article. Cangjie works with both Traditional and Simplified as of 2004. Check NJStar if you don't believe me. --Taoster 18:57, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

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Oh my god, this looks tricky. I'm sticking to Pinyin. — Chameleon 15:50, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

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Cangjie version 5 makes the just-like-that decomposition rules table WRONG!!! Changing 202.156.6.59 06:29, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I have rearranged the table to account for these differences now. I am only sure about columns 1 (I have a manual) and 3 (chinesecj web site). Please fix column 2 as you see fit.—Gniw (Wing) 18:36, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Microsoft Cangjie IME

Where can I get a Cangjie IME for Windows XP? I can only install "Microsoft Pinyin IME 3.0", "NeiMa", "QuanPin", "ShuangPin" and "ZhengMa".

--Abdull 15:09, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Choose "Chinese (Taiwan)" and then "Cangjie IME" will appear. Even though it says "Taiwan",, the newest Cangjie IME actually can input simplfied characters.—Gniw (Wing) 00:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Yale romanization

Hey, how come “Chongkit method” was gotten rid of? Wiki Wikardo 20:15, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Mr Chu is not a Cantonese and he speaks NO Cantonese. Cangjie is invented entirely in Taiwan, not Hong Kong. Don't be Hongkong-centric. 137.189.4.1 04:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the main topolects used in the Anglosphere’s oldest Chinatowns are still Cantonese. You don’t know me, you don’t know nothin about my history, and I’d thank you to not demonstrate your ignorance, by assuming good faith and not making ad hominem attacks. When most English-speakers refer to Chinese New Year, they say k/gung hay fat choi, not gong xi fa cai (though this may likely change within our lifetimes, due to Mainland emigration and lobbying efforts by the PRC). This is English Wikipedia, not Mandarin Wikipedia or Taiwanpedia. The reason I found it useful to include the Cantonese transcription is that the first time I heard of the IME, I was speaking English, in an English-speaking country, and, not being up on my Chinese history, wondered why I couldn’t find any information about “Chong key” online. When I finally read about Chongkit it clicked, although I don’t know that I would have made the same association with CangJie. And Yale romanization, in fact, is not even really used in Hong Kong, but was invented for Americans and is widely used outside HK by those learning Cantonese as a second language. The presumption that, because Chōng Kit was invented in Taiwan, it is neither used nor spoken of by people with non-Mandarin varieties is erroneous and absurd. In fact, that’s likely its main niche, as the vast, vast majority of Mandarin speakers use a phonetic input method, whereas there are few for non-Mandarin varieties—therefore, it’s been estimated that 倉頡’s main userbase is HK, not Taiwan. So if anything, neutrality dictates that this be written to reflect Hong Kong-centrism. Furthermore, I fail to grasp how including another, common romanization, is Hong Kong-centric, when it remains secondary to the pinyin spelling. Don’t be so provincial. —Wiki Wikardo 05:58, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Chongkit is not used in Hong Kong or anywhere else, but Changjei is used in Hong Kong, for example a university training class [1], a book published by Keith Tsoi in Hong Kong [2] and on his website [3], and this thesis from HKU [4]. The name Tsang-jei was used by the Curriculum Development Council of the Education Dept of Hong Kong. [5]--Stomatapoll (talk) 07:22, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Suggestion to move this page to disambiguation page

I think this should be moved to Cangjie, forming a disambiguation page.207.81.184.128 01:41, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I disagree with the usage of "erroneously" in the first sentence:

The Cangjie method, often erroneously spelt Changjei method...

Just because "Changjei" is not pinyin does not mean that it is an erroneous spelling; it is merely a chosen English name, like Hong Kong and Confucious. The name "Changjei" (for the input method) has a long precedent, longer than "Cangjie", so even if it was an accident, it is still a name people know. I propose removing the word "erroneously" from that sentence. Cgkm 06:18, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree. "Changjei" is the original spelling, whether it was romanized correctly or not. So I can state quite pervasively that it is "Cangjie" which is the misspelling, and indeed this variant (wrong) spelling came much later. It is sad to see editors who do not know the history to add such appraisals into the articles.—Gniw (Wing) (talk) 17:28, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

"e.g.", not "i.e."

This article twice erroneously employs i.e. (Id_est#id_est) where e.g. (E.g.#exempli_gratia) is intended:

"Geometrically unconnected forms that can be broken into two subforms (i.e., 你)...."

"...broken into multiple subforms (i.e., 謝)..."

CNJECulver (talk) 02:36, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Note on above post: the reason is that e.g. means 'for example', while i.e. means 'that is'. (In English. The letters are, I *think*, from Latin, and I don't know what they stand for in that language, only what they mean in English ^^) Firejuggler86 (talk) 06:43, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Actual difficulties section

Not convinced that the actual difficulties are relevant to Cangjie 5 - assuming the iBus Ubuntu version is the same as Cangjie 5 on other OSs, it's quite error forgiving (suggests completion of characters) and also common punctuation marks can be accessed using the , . < > keys (，。《》).

If anyone can verify that this is the case on other OSs I'll go ahead and add that information.

"Not error forgiving" (不容錯) does not refer to completion of characters (as in modern versions), but to Changjei's strict rules of decomposition and specificity of the meaning of its radicals. Given a character, if you fail to recognize/guess the correct radical, you will either not be prompted with any character, or prompted with a different character than what you want. This is in contrast to "error forgiving" IME's which assume (by design) that there is the possibility that you will guess the radicals incorrectly and may recover from the user's entering of wrong radicals (such as the 南方模糊音 feature of NJStar).—Gniw (Wing) (talk) 17:02, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

English

I just edited the English for conciseness, correctness and style. I didn't change anything important. I would like to add that I really appreciate the authors of this page, bravo! It will help a lot of people. My only question is, why is Microsoft's version of Cangjie referred to as "Changjie"-- twice? That just looks incorrect. Evangeline (talk) 12:55, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

See above. —Tsāng Jyé (all that glitters is not pinyin) 05:58, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

CangjieNotepad 20130305.ogv

I will say, too, that for an IME often touted for its potential speed, the demo video of ChangJie characters being composed is painfully slow to watch. —Wiki Wikardo 05:58, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Pinyin for the radicals

is here Lycurgus (talk) 18:09, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

stroke order exceptions

I'd like to find or create a dabase of characters which show exceptions to the stroke order to be expected according to the standard guidelines? 现代汉语通用字笔顺规范. I haven't found any academic article on the issue yet.

Eventually, the characters that do not follow the standard guidelines should be arranged into groups according to the "type of irregularity", which would be very useful both for lexicographic and learning purposes. --Backinstadiums (talk) 11:28, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

This is probably the wrong place to ask, as the Cangjie input method is based on shapes irrespective of stroke order. Apart from that, stroke orders taught in Mainland China, Taiwan and Hong Kong often differ, so you can't expect a universal answer to your question. — The eStroke application allows you to select among several stroke order types that are accepted in the Chinese speaking world. Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 16:39, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

@LiliCharlie: Sorry, you're right. The article I read meantioned natives were forgetting their order due to new input methods. Do you know how to propose this project, at least for the HSK vocabulary? Maybe the stroke order project gathered enough info. for it. --Backinstadiums (talk) 18:47, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Western bias?

a system by which Chinese characters may be entered into a computer using a standard keyboard

How standard are qwerty keyboards actually?

--euyyn (talk) 20:52, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Good point. I'd like to add that the Cangjie input method doesn't depend on a QWERTY hardware keyboard layout at all. I use it on several computers, and one of them is a laptop with a German QWERTZ keyboard. That doesn't change a thing; the keys 日月金木水火土竹戈十大中一弓人心手口尸廿山女田卜 as well as the special keys are still at the same place. Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 02:57, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

When the Chinese invent their own computer architecture from scratch and mass produce PCs that the East adopts for general use, then there may be a legitimate claim that QWERTY is not the standard keyboard ;) (which, for all I know, they may be) Firejuggler86 (talk) 06:54, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Too many keyboard layout illustrations

@Cangjie6 and all: We currently have three still images and a video that illustrate the CJ keyboard layout. In my opinion such a wealth is unjustified in form and content as well as pedagogically, and I would like to have at least one of two in the Keyboard layout section removed, but I can't make up my mind which one. Pros and cons? Suggestions? Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 23:56, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

I kept the CG under "Keyboard layout" part. Maybe a CG is clearer than a photo, though that photo is clear enough for me. But where's the third one? I can't find it.-Cangjie6 (talk) 20:46, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

I agree, thanks for your edit.

Outside the Keyboard layout section, the image HK 石塘咀市政大廈 Shek Tong Tsui Municipal Services Building 電腦鍵盤 Chinese input keyboard Jan-2012.jpg and the video CangjieOnMiNote2AndroidScreencast.webm also show a CJ keyboard layout. Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 21:15, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Oh dear, maybe it's too small, I've ignored it. Maybe we can change it into a bigger one.-Cangjie6 (talk) 08:52, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Key presses

How does one type the Cangjie characters? Which shift keys are used? Shift, Ctrl, Alt, AltGr, etc.? In the image to the right the characters are colored green. Thanks. ➧datumizer  ☎  02:29, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

None. None of the Bopomofo letters, Cangjie or dayi radicals shown on these keycaps make use of any modifiers. One switches to an appropriate mode of the input method and then type them directly. What shortcuts are used for switching between modes and for other functions is unrelated and usually configurable, but these are proper modes, not quasimodes that require holding some modifier. –MwGamera (talk) 14:22, 14 November 2020 (UTC)