Talk:Muhammad

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Former good articleMuhammad was one of the Philosophy and religion good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
In the newsOn this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 7, 2005Peer reviewReviewed
January 8, 2006Good article nomineeListed
March 30, 2006Good article reassessmentDelisted
July 5, 2008Good article nomineeListed
October 2, 2010Good article reassessmentKept
May 14, 2012Good article reassessmentKept
September 10, 2023Good article reassessmentDelisted
In the news A news item involving this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "In the news" column on September 19, 2012.
On this day... Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on May 2, 2004, June 8, 2005, June 8, 2006, and June 8, 2018.
Current status: Delisted good article

Frequently asked questions, please read before posting[edit]

Please read Talk:Muhammad/FAQ for answers to these frequently-asked questions (you need to tap "Read as wiki page" to see the relevant text):

  1. Shouldn't all the images of Muhammad be removed because they might offend Muslims?
  2. Aren't the images of Muhammad false?
  3. How can I hide the images using my personal Wikipedia settings?
  4. Why does the infobox at the top of the article contain a stylized logo and not a picture of Muhammad?
  5. Why is Muhammad's name not followed by (pbuh) or (saw) in the article?
  6. Why does the article say that Muhammad is the "founder" of Islam?
  7. Why does it look like the article is biased towards secular or "Western" references?
  8. Why can't I edit this article as a new or anonymous user?
  9. Can censorship be employed on Wikipedia?
  10. Because Muhammad married an underage girl, should the article say he was a pedophile?

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GA Reassessment[edit]

Muhammad[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch article reassessment page • Most recent review
Result: While instability is not in itself a reason to delist, poor quality sourcing is; the discussions on the talk page constitute, in my view, consensus that the sourcing has been degraded. Delisted. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:49, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It has recently been brought to light that this page and its sourcing have been altered fairly wholesale since the page was last reviewed and kept as GA, and that there is little reason to believe the level of former quality has been maintained; on the contrary, recent informal assessments by editors have uncovered significant issues in terms of prior content and source removal, as well as in terms of the quality of new sourcing and the resulting balance of the page and its contents. The sum conclusion of the current state of affairs has already been assessed by several editors as no longer meeting GA standard. For details, see the existing talk page discussion at Talk:Muhammad#Removal of "good article" status, as well as the broader discussion entitled Talk:Muhammad#Recent neutrality concerns, and other subsequent talk page discussions. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:43, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fails Wikipedia:Good article criteria It is not stable due to edit warring on the page....: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. Moxy- 04:08, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Even excluding the wholesale rewriting the article has undergone recently, 2012 is a long time ago, and the article quality standards back then were arguably lower. I do not see a reason to maintain GA status given the current edit warring. Hemiauchenia (talk) 18:51, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 February 2024[edit]

The criticism of Muhammad is extremely vague and only go in depth in regards to the theological issues, however with other religious figures/leaders on Wikipedia, there is depth into the criticism of their character, actions, etc. 112.141.49.219 (talk) 12:26, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. GrayStorm(Talk|Contributions) 14:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You can find a little more in the sub-article Criticism of Muhammad. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:16, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Muhammad_and_the_Bible#Baháʼí[edit]

Your view is welcome. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:48, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mistakes in the article in[edit]

Poster didn’t read FAQ No. 6

In this article there are some mistakes, In this article it says that Muhammadﷺ. is the founder of Islam and that's not true . Islam existed from the time of Adam(AS) The first human being and the first prophet of Islam. Islam,The religion of The only true God ALLAH(SWT). MUHAMMADﷺ got revelation from God(ALLAH) and he was a Messanger and prophet of God(ALLAH) he Warned the Wrongdoing peopleto go to the right path. BrotherAnasibnmalik (talk) 17:30, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See Q6 in the FAQ at the top of this page. This is an encyclopedia, not a religious text. O3000, Ret. (talk) 17:37, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Bro it doesn't matter when you are talking about Islam take info from authentic sources of Islam Mahdi2812 (talk) 18:53, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mahdi2812: Bro we don't use primary sources to make statements in Wikipedia's narrative voice, per policy; see WP:PRIMARY. We use reliable scholarly sources instead. ~Anachronist (talk) 19:45, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Il y a une erreur sur le nom[edit]

Il est écrit Mahomet alors que c’est mohammed et non Mahomet qui a été changé par l’occident cela est une insulte s’il vous plaît pouvez-vous remplacer je vous en prie. 2A01:E0A:BA7:C090:CDF0:8B54:567:CA80 (talk) 12:59, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please use English in the English version of Wikipedia. "Mahomet" is only used in titles of other works, as it must be. O3000, Ret. (talk) 13:16, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Information not correct[edit]

Poster didn’t read FAQ No. 6

When yor are talking about Islam or prophet Muhammad (s.w.a). YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TALK BY YOUR SELF TALK ACCORDING TO INFORMATION GIVEN IN ISLAM.

NOW WHAT'S THE PROBLEM?

PROBLEM IS THAT PROPHET MUHAMMAD IS NOT FOUNDER OR CREATER OF ISLAM AS YOU SAY, ACCORDING TO MUSLIM AND IT'S OUR BELIEF THAT ISLAM WAS THEIR BEFORE ANY OTHER RELIGION SO YOU CAN SAY THAT HE IS INTRODUCER OF ISLAM NOT CREATER OF FOUNDER Mahdi2812 (talk) 18:52, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No. See the answer to question 6 in the FAQ at the top of this page. Also, please don't use caps. It certainly won't mean you are more likely to be listened to. DeCausa (talk) 18:56, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, even though I am the author of that FAQ answer, I have always advocated that this article says he "introduced" Islam (an objective fact that cannot be denied by anyone) rather than "founded" Islam. I composed the FAQ answer with that conflict of terms uppermost in my mind, even though I know that the community would never agree to replace "founded" with "introduced". ~Anachronist (talk) 06:20, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It depends what the objective is. If it's to find a compromise i.e. a form of expression that won't offend Muslim sensibilities but is broad enough to not be inconsistent with secular scholarship, then maybe "introduced" would work. But I don't think that can be the objective. Shouldn't the objective be to clearly represent scholarship per WP:DUE? I don't think that "introduced" is clear enough to do that. Everyone knows what "founded" means but "introduced" is ambiguous, which is why it might work as a compromise, but not the sort of compromise that WP should make. DeCausa (talk) 07:57, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That was my thinking too, which is why the FAQ answer is worded the way it is. My preference for "introduced" was grounded more in a desire to end the complaints we get about Muhammad being the founder. ~Anachronist (talk) 19:41, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I doubt that would work. If Adam, Moses and Jesus were Muslims, Muhammad can not have introduced it. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:52, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Appeasing believers when trying to write from a secular perspective is just not going to be possible. Maybe something could be added to the "founder" footnote saying something like "Muslims believe that Islam existed prior to Muhammad/has always existed", though I don't have a good citation in mind. Hemiauchenia (talk) 20:20, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The early lead-statement "...he was a prophet divinely inspired to preach and confirm the monotheistic teachings of Adam..." covers that reasonably IMO. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:29, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, seeing that the man is creator of the main religious text in Islam and the secondary religious texts are presented as his deeds and judgements. He is a founder and should be explained as such here. Ip says: Work Better yes. (talk) 13:48, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TALK BY YOUR SELF TALK ACCORDING TO INFORMATION GIVEN IN ISLAM." Ummm.... no. Your insistence that we must follow your religion is grossly offensive. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 13:21, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Foretold his prophethood"[edit]

Hi @BilledMammal. Thank you for taking part in the monitoring of this article. Regarding the text "who foretold his prophethood" that you deleted, this detail is the main point of the whole Bahira story, so I think its inclusion is quite essential. If it's a matter of wording, will you please suggest how you think it should be written? Just as a note, there's already "Islamic narratives say" in the earlier part of the sentence. — Kaalakaa (talk) 17:12, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the Mecca of the Article[edit]

If the person sent by the Single God, was born in a place called "Mecca", and the Mecca we now call "Mecca" in what is now Saudi Arabia was founded during the first century of the Muhammadanism, does that mean all our early references to "Mecca" in this article should be to "Mecca" of Petra, in Jordan? Mysha (talk) Mysha (talk) 13:54, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is this related to "Recently, Petra has been put forward as the original direction of Muslim prayer, the Qibla, by some in the revisionist school of Islamic studies, namely that the earliest mosques faced Petra, not Jerusalem or Mecca. However, others have challenged the notion of comparing modern readings of Qiblah directions to early mosques’ Qiblahs as they claim early Muslims could not accurately calculate the direction of the Qiblah to Mecca and so the apparent pinpointing of Petra by some early mosques may well be coincidental." (from Petra) ? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:24, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. "Oh, yesterday we didn't know how to do that", is always the defense of those who have no better answer. But regardless, do we really have to claim Atlantis lay in the Atlantic Ocean, for no reason than to not have proof that it did lay somewhere else? Likewise, if there is discussion about the identification of Mecca, shouldn't our article reflect that? Mysha (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 09:30, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Petra does mention that. If it is WP:PROPORTIONate to include in this article is another question. You can make a suggestion on what text you want to add where with what refs here on the talkpage and see if people have opinions. Or you can wait until WP:30/500, be WP:BOLD and see what happens. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Depictions of Prophet[edit]

Poster didn’t read FAQ No. 1

Could you remove depictions of Prophet in the article. There are billions of Muslims in the World. Do you think these are acceptable to Muslims? SaloxiddinTursunaliyev (talk) 16:09, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See Talk:Muhammad#Frequently_asked_questions,_please_read_before_posting. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:42, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are billions more non-Muslims in the world. Do you think your attempts to control them are acceptable?--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 19:35, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And not even all those billions of Muslims agree about said depictions. - Sumanuil. (talk to me) 19:50, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's right. @SaloxiddinTursunaliyev: The Persian Wikipedia article on Muhammad, presumably maintained by Muslims, seems to find the depictions acceptable. ~Anachronist (talk) 20:02, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They have a mural of him in Tehran. - Sumanuil. (talk to me) 21:02, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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