Talk:Piano Man (song)

Lower key

It seems Billy Joel plays this song in a lower key in the recent years. Could someone confirm which key is it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.57.176.82 (talk) 21:22, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Untitled

This needs NPOVing to all hell. Djbrianuk 22:48, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Time signature inaccuracy

The current version says the song is a slow 6/8 time. However, anyone listening to the song will notice it has a strong beat every 3 beats, more characteristic of 3/4 time. Technically this is original research, so i wont edit it, but if anyone wants to cite a reliable source for it, go ahead 70.48.0.59 (talk) 07:38, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

The song is in 6/8 time, and would never be described as 3/4 by a musician. If you clicked along to it, would you click rapidly 3 times every bar (3/4 time) like it was a fast march, or twice per 6/8 bar ("it's NINE o'CLOCK on a SATurday...")? Although a source is quoted to say it is 3/4 it may be from a beginner's book. Tiger999 (talk) 16:48, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Currently, the article states it's 3/4, apparently based on the notation in a song book. I disagree with that and would also say it's 6/8 or even 12/8. The "strong beat every three beats" mentioned above alternates between bass drum and snare drum. Based on the vocal phrasing I'd go for 12/8 though there is a 3/4 feel to the keyboard solo (at about 3:30). Robby.is.on (talk) 16:16, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

It is Definitely 3/4. The sheet music says so in the Billy Joel greatest hits book, and you can tell because the overall feel of the song is very waltz-like with the way it goes "ONE-two-three, ONE-two-three" and so on, with a strong accent on beat one. 6/8 would feel less waltz-like and more like "ONE-two-three-four-five-six". Compare "Piano Man" to a waltz, such as the Blue Danube by Strauss or the Waltz of the Flowers from Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker, and you'll see the feel is very similar.

The piano is clearly played in 3/4 as the piano hits the bass of the current inversion every third beat followed by the two upper notes of the triad on two and three.

The drums are drift back and forth between 6/8 and 3/4. 6/8 is characterized by kick drum hit on one and snare hit on four, whereas 3/4 is kick on one then snare on three repeated.

In the first verse the drums are in 6/8 and switches briefly to 3/4 during the instrumental in the middle. But the second verse is 3/4 for the first vocal half and jumps to 6/8 at the instrumental and sticks there for a while. It's not totally consistent, but in general soft parts and instrumentals are in 3/4 more often than not. It might be intentional or simply that the piano tends to be driving those parts and so the drummer naturally falls into that signature.

I'm a musician... Not that that makes me right, but just to counter the idea that no musician would say it's 3/4. Since the dominant instrument (piano) is consistently in 3/4, played by the person who wrote the song, and the rest of the band forms around that, I'd say the song is in 3/4 regardless of whether the drums always agree. Guyondowy (talk) 19:25, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Amateur musician, but of 40 years experience, here. It doesn't matter what the sheet music book says, sheet music books are not authoritative, I've seen errors in them a million times. Besides, Online Drummer's sheet music for it is in 6/8, and that was transcribed by a professional drummer, so, there's your source for it being in 6/8. To my ears the song is clearly a slow 6/8 ballad. It's not a simple "Oom-pa-pa" rhythm. You can't sing "It's a pretty good crowd for a saturday, and the regular crowd shuffles in" in 4 bars of 3/4, it's 8 groups of 3 beats (or 4 groups of 6), not 4 groups of 3. As someone above said, it could be interpreted as 12/8, but definitely not 3/4. It has been observed that slow 6/8 is easily mistaken for 3/4 for perceptual reasons, as in John Mayer's slow 6/8 "Gravity". However: I have a friend who is a music professor and published composer who I've had similar arguments with a million times. His counter, when I play him something clearly in 6/8, like Red Hot Chili Peppers's "Breaking The Girl", is that in the classical period, when the rules were written, it would have been considered to have been 3/4, end of story. So obviously there's room for interpretation, and perhaps some subjectivity involved. It's probably up to whoever's conducting an individual performance. But as far relying on a source, I myself would go with the published commercial transcription by a professional drummer, which says 6/8, rather than the popular mass-market omnibus music book of the type I've seen contain mistakes many times. Because the current text saying 3/4 is unsourced, I have updated it. If someone can find a reliable source that disputes this, I believe it would be most fair to mention the dispute rather than revert or replace the edit. SteubenGlass (talk) 22:57, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Not Very Accurate

"Joel's early career was as a piano player in bars." I don't think this is the case. Joel only played at the Executive Room for six months while he was sitting out a bad record company contract. Otherwise, there's no mention of him being a piano player in bars, though that's certainly his reputation.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.86.23.99 (talk) 15:22, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

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Did Billy Joel himself write this article? It's talking about "Piano Man" (nice little pop song) like it's Beethoven's 9th Symphony. 4.230.159.199 08:05, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think that by now all the puffery has been edited out... -- PKtm 19:42, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, It's a start

I know it's not there yet, but I added an infobox, updated a link, and added more material jj 19:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Was Piano Man actually cut down to 3:05? Or was 3:05 just used for the sake of a rhyme? Is the 5:37 version we all know not actually the edited version, or is this the "proper" one?

• 3:05 for the single, 5:37 in album versions. --YankeeDoodle14 23:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)how does the music make you feel?

Check the History

While reading the overview of this song, I couldn't help but see that it says "Piano Man" was created during the time of Billy Joel's "lounge singing in Los Angeles". Being a native of the city of Troy, NY, I find it hard not to state where this song actually came from. It was made about a bar called the "Hendrick Hudson Hotel Bar" in Troy, NY. Look it up. Ask Billy Joel. My older relatives are friends with many of the people mentioned in the song and they would have no problem telling anyone their real last names. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lilmick7 (talk • contribs) 00:30, 25 January 2007 (UTC). Lilmick7 00:51, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll second the Hendrick Hudson theory. I was a waiter in the 1980s at Holmes & Watson (now McAddy's Pub) and "John at the bar" worked there. He used to tell of working at the Hendrick Hudson bar and inspiring the line in the song. John was very overweight, similar to the person who plays John in the video of the song. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doohickie (talk • contribs) 06:34, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

I added the release date, recording dates/place, producer, and the part in the Trivia section that mentions The Hassles. The info was all taken from the inside of an album called "Rock Classics of the 70s". So anyone who has that can check it. I did that all ages ago, but never thought of mentioning it. And I know this isn't the place to talk about references but I just thought I would anyway. Hope that's ok, guys. :) Rforsite01 17:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I've heard it's about a bar in Highland Falls, NY, called Benny Havens, across from Cold Spring, NY. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.90.250.39 (talk) 16:41, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Los Angeles!?

This song was written LONG before he went over to the west coast, my aunt's good friend dated joel's bass guitarist and it is said that the song is written about an English pub in Huntington, NY near Cold Spring Harbor. The name of the pub is "Canerbury Ales" and it was located (when the song was written) on New York Avenue just south of Main Street.

I think that the notion that the song was written about a bar in LA is highly inaccurate. I would enjoy to see hard evidence of that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by FloppyDiskMan (talk • contribs) 14:48, 8 April 2007 (UTC).

Real estate novelist

"Now Paul is a real estate novelist" Anybody knows what the expression "real estate novelist" means? hey i'm doing a asyment on can simeone help me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phoenix7731 (talk • contribs) 07:13, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I know this is to late but i would love to answer this question Real Estate Novilist was refering to someone that he knew who sold real estate and claimed he was working on a book, but billy never thought he would finish it.[1]--Kopicz 01:37, 12 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bkopicz3 (talk • contribs)

don't know

i'm am stuck on the queston why did he writtte it and what is the main message? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.67.216.59 (talk) 05:59, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Composition

I added in composition that there's also a mandolin in the song. I think, very lightly, there is an acoustic guitar, but that could be the piano playing softly. Those Kids (talk) 09:38, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Bit Confusing

In one section of the article it says "Piano Man" is a fictionalized retelling of real people Joel met during his days as a piano-lounge(etc) BUT in another section it says Joel admitted on Inside the Actors Studio that each of the characters in the song is based on a real person, either a friend of his or another stranger at the bar.

If it is based on a real person it can not be fictionalized --Kopicz (talk) 01:41, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Sure it can. People write fiction based upon real people all the time. Jpcohen (talk) 00:28, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Performance in the original key a few years back

When I say, "performed the song in the original key for the first time in approximately a decade" (referring to when Joel received the Gershwin Prize in November 2014" I am unsure exactly when the last time before that was that he performed it in the original key. He performed it in the original key until 2003, when that leg of his F2F tours with Elton John completed. I don't believe Joel performed regularly again until 2006, and by then he had changed the key of Piano Man from C to B flat. So the key was lowered sometime between 2003 and 2006. So that's why I say "approximately a decade" because I'm unsure exactly what year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.252.228.2 (talk) 15:23, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Insufficiently specific citations

Citations 6 and 11, the URL given is Youtube's home page. I believe 6 is supposed to point to How Billy Joel became the "Piano Man", but I can't find 11. —131.191.63.59 (talk) 05:44, 6 June 2020 (UTC)