Talk:Cleisthenes

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Classical Greece and Rome High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Greece High‑importance

	Greece portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greece on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Politics Mid‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 September 2021 and 10 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): GooseJanus. Peer reviewers: BlueCat976, CDD2112.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 17:48, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled[edit]

i need some basic biographical information on Cleithenes...anyone help?

This little exchange was ages ago, but whatever. The problem with Cleisthenes is that there is no biographical information on him. Despite his monumental achievements, we know next to nothing about the man himself. --Emily 03:32, 24 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31641/31641-h/31641-h.htm#ar180 the article (11th ed. Britannica) on Cleisthenes is informative, and has a thorough explanation of "the curse", but also states clearly that: "Apart from the reforms which Cleisthenes was now able to establish, the period of his ascendancy is a blank, nor are we told when and how it came to an end." Diomedes Agonistes (talk) 18:10, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation[edit]

I made a disambiguation article for Cleisthenes and a separate article for Cleisthenes, who lived during the Peloponnesian war. --Yannismarou 10:41, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

what the deuce?[edit]

'Cleisthenes (also Clisthenes or Kleisthenes) was a noble Athenian of the accursed Alcmeonidate family'

Just what exactly do you have against the Alcmeonidates? I think they good people.

Musungu jim 17:12, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed "accursed" from the text, there's simply no reason for it. wrc_wolfbrother 16:40, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

According to Heroditus there was a curse against the family. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.31.125.205 (talk) 22:58, 17 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Equality of political rights[edit]

I thought twice before change of "equality under the law" to "equality of political rights". However I have two strong sources for this:

Morgens Herman Hansen who is an expert on Athenian Democracy
Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon

Moreover, because Herodotus & Cleisthenes use isonomia and democracy interchangeably to mean a system of the politi, and nomos has the mean custom, usage (as well as law) I am more inclined to the wider definition of "political rights" which would be "customs of the politi". I hope no one is offended by my change --Mike 13:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As long as your consideration includes the fact that the Greek-English Lexicon you are using refers to modern Greek which would be substantially different from the ancient Greek, then I would imagine no offense is taken... Stevenmitchell 04:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gerrymandering?[edit]

Can it be said that his regrouping of voting districts is an early form of gerrymandering? 84.2.206.167 (talk) 05:10, 26 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not unless a published, reliable and verified source has said it first. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 10:53, 26 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In a way, that is precisely what it is, gerrymandering--but apparently not in a bid for power, but in an attempt to re-balance Athenian society, by reconfiguring political districts so they would reflect a cross-section of socio-economic and clan groups and thereby prevent or limit the factionalism and polarization that had bedeviled Athens since the time of Cylon and before. So you might describe it as 'gerrymandering' or 'anti-gerrymandering'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.18.100.118 (talk) 19:02, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

3rd Spartan Intervention, attempt to restore Isagoras to power not clearly stated[edit]

Apparently, there were 3 separate Spartan military interventions aimed at Athens in the late 6th century:

1 an unsuccessful attempt to unseat Hippias that was thwarted

2 the successful intervention that forced Hippias to flee to Asia Minor

3 an unsuccessful attempt by the Spartans to restore the Athenian oligarch, Isagoras, to power.

This last incident is not mentioned at all in the article, but it is an important fact, because it relates not only to the subsequent Persian War, but also to the larger issue of the relationship between Athens and Sparta, and Sparta's general support of oligarchies.