Talk:Hudson's Bay Company

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Edit request 18-JAN-2018

Requesting correction/clarification of some details on the HBC page. Requested edits numbered and noted below in bold, with sources cross-referenced at the bottom.

Hudson's Bay Company From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Hudson's Bay Company (HBC; French: Compagnie de la Baie d'Hudson) (1) [7]
NNo actionable request There are no spelling errors here.

is a Canadian retail business group. A fur trading business for much of its existence, HBC now owns and operates retail stores in Canada, the United States and parts of Europe, including Belgium, The Netherlands, and Germany. The company's namesake business division is Hudson's Bay, commonly referred to as The Bay (La Baie in French), and other divisions include Galeria Kaufhof, Gilt, Home Outfitters, Lord & Taylor, Saks Fifth Avenue (2) and Saks OFF 5TH.

• Comment: Unreferenced

HBC's head office was in the Simpson Tower in Toronto, but it is now located northwest of Toronto in Brampton, Ontario.[8]
NNo actionable request This information does not conflict with what is already present in the article.

The company is listed on the Toronto Stock Exchange under the symbol "HBC"....

HBC directly oversees its Canadian (3) banners

• Comment: The company standards for internally-used nomenclature are not used by Wikipedia.

Hudson's Bay (formerly The Bay) and Home Outfitters, in addition to the operations of Lord & Taylor in the United States.

On 29 July 2013, the HBC announced its (4) acquisition

• Comment: Kindly provide references which state that these terms are not equivalent

of Saks, Inc., operator of the Saks Fifth Avenue brand.

In September 2015, HBC acquired the German department store chain Galeria Kaufhof and its Belgian subsidiary from Metro Group for (5) CA $3.9 billion.[15][16] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.85.105.7 (talk) 18:33, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

In May 2016, HBC announced it would expand to the Netherlands by taking over up to 20 former Vroom & Dreesmann sites by 2017. V&D was a historic Dutch department store chain that went bankrupt and shut down in early 2016. HBC said the (6)investment would be CA$340 million and create 2,500 jobs in the stores and another 2,500 temporary construction jobs. The Dutch stores would operate under the "Hudson's Bay" and (7) "Saks OFF 5TH" brands.[18]

On 16 July 2008, the company was sold to NRDC Equity Partners, a private equity firm based in Purchase, New York which already owned Lord & Taylor, the oldest (8) department store chain in the United States.[11][69]The Canadian and U.S. holdings were transferred to NRDC Equity Partners' holding company, Hudson's Bay Trading Company, as of the fall of 2008.[citation needed]

On 24 January 2012, the Financial Post reported that Richard Baker (owner of NDRC and governor of Hudson's Bay Company) had dissolved Hudson's Bay Trading Company and that HBC would now also operate the Lord & Taylor chain. (9) Baker remained governor and CEO of the business and Donald Watros stayed on as chief operating officer.[12]

The company also has retail operations in Europe, including (10) 10 Hudson’s Bay stores in the Netherlands and five Saks OFF 5TH stores in Germany as well as the 100 stores of the Galeria Kaufhof department store chain in Germany.[88]

Operations HBC is diversified into joint ventures and other types of business products. HBC has credit card, mortgage, and personal insurance branches. These other products and services are joint partnerships with other corporations. HBC also has other HBC Rewards corporate partners(11) . Points can also be converted to Air Miles.

HBC is involved in community and charity activities. The HBC Rewards Community Program raises funds for community causes. The HBC Foundation is a charity (12) involved in social issues and service.

• Comment: It is unclear from the text above what is to be either added or deleted. To expedite your request, kindly specify whether the information above is to be either added or removed, including the location of the information.

Request Edit – Sources and Background

(1) Hudson’s Bay Company is the parent corporation. The store, Hudson’s Bay, is commonly referred to as The Bay (Source: thebay.com)

(2) Correcting spelling (Source: hbc.com)

(3) Subsidiaries are specific type of business structure. This is not a true description for HBC stores. They are called “banners”.

(4) Source: http://investor.hbc.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=780766

(5) Source : http://investor.hbc.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=934427

(6) Important distinction to note that the investment came from HBC and landlords. Source: http://investor.hbc.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=971214

(7) Correcting spelling

(8) Source : hbc.com

(9) Bonnie Brooks was president of Hudson’s Bay, the store, not HBC or any other of its banners.

(10) Source: http://www3.hbc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/2016-CSR-Report_FINAL_ENG_RED.pdf

(11) Source: http://www.hbc.com/hbcrewards/

(12) Source: http://www3.hbc.com/hbc/socialresponsibility/hbc-foundation-2/

199.85.105.7 (talk) 17:59, 18 January 2018 (UTC)January 18, 2018

 Declined Please see individual comments above for more information about your request. Please advise as to the missing required elements and/or missing instructions for the proposals at your earliest convenience. Regards, Spintendo ᔦᔭ 20:03, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

I'll add that because the company calls itself "The Bay" doesn't mean that it's the store's WP:COMMONNAME, but it is commonly called that, so I suppose we could add that in the lede. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:49, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Article issues

This article is a delisted Good Article. I didn't look at the history but the "Shortening the lead section" above concerns a bloated lead that is still "bloated". With 14 projects of interest it seems strange this has been allowed. The "External links" section is extremely bloated as well and the "See also" section appears to suffer from this and in need of trimming. Tags will likely result in a further demotion so if someone can look into this it would be appreciated. Otr500 (talk) 06:47, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

"Projects" don't work. Once the banner has been put on the talk page, that's the last interest most "projects" ever show in an article, in my limited experience of 0.1% of Wikipedia articles. --Wtshymanski (talk) 02:38, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Changes to lead and 21st century section

Hello. I am Alexandra, and I am requesting the following edits to move some content from the Introduction into the 21st century section, as well as add new content with sources, also to the 21st century section.

1. Please move the following two sentences from the Introduction and place them as a second paragraph in the 21st century section. The sentences are more appropriate as part of the body of the article and not the type of information found in the Introduction:
   • "It had been a member of the International Association of Department Stores from 2001 to 2005."
   • "The company's namesake business division is Hudson's Bay, commonly referred to as The Bay (La Baie in French)."
2. Please move the following sentence, with a minor edit, from the Intro to the beginning of the second paragraph (the paragraph that begins with "On 26 January 2006, the HBC's board...") in the 21st century section. It is also better placed in the body of the article than in the Introduction. It is clear from the context that the company is no longer Canadian owned so we can also remove the second half of that sentence: "In 2006, an American businessman, Jerry Zucker, bought HBC for US$1.1 billion."
3. In the third paragraph of the 21st century section, after the words "On 16 July 2008, the company was sold" please add the phrase "for slightly higher than US$1.1 billion "
4. Add the following to the end of the fourth paragraph in the 21st century section: "In March 2020, Baker and a group of shareholders were successful in taking the company private. "

References

Thank you very much for all your help, Alexandra for HBC (talk) 17:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Hi Alexandra for HBC, I will take a look at these and get back to you about what is possible.MaskedSinger (talk) 10:57, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi MaskedSinger. Thanks, that would be great. Alexandra for HBC (talk) 21:00, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

 Partly done: Hi. Went out on a limb and implemented some of this, hope it's OK, MaskedSinger. I find The second sentence ("La Baie", etc) us relevant for the lede. Furthermore, I tweaked your second request, as the share price was unreferenced anyway, but I believe my edits should satisfy the theme of the request. PK650 (talk) 07:38, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

PK650 Thanks for doing this! It's more than ok. Life took over (ie COVID) and I didn't get around to this. Please feel free to take this over while I admire your handiwork. It's a privilege to meet you and I hope we cross paths again :) MaskedSinger (talk) 16:24, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

MaskedSinger, you're too kind! Hope to see you around PK650 (talk) 06:59, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi PK650. Thanks so much for implementing my edit request. I also have an outstanding edit request on Talk:Richard A. Baker (businessman), who is the CEO of Hudson's Bay. Any help you can render over there would be much appreciated. Thanks again. Alexandra for HBC (talk) 13:54, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Edits to the Intro section

Hi. This is Alexandra and I have a few more edits I would like to have made to the Introduction. I am calling on PK650 who has been helpful on this page in the past.

1. In the first paragraph, please change "for much of its existence" to "in its early years." This is more specific and less subjective.
2. In the sixth paragraph, which begins "In 2008" please change the third sentence from "HBC's head office is currently located in Brampton, Ontario," to " HBC's headquarters are located in Toronto, New York and Brampton, Ontario."
3. Please add the following phrase to the end of the next (last) sentence in the Intro: " until Baker and a group of shareholders took the company private. "
4. Please add the following two paragraphs to the end of the Intro section:

HBC is now the majority owner of ecommerce companies Saks and Saks Off 5th, both established as separate operating companies in 2021. HBC also wholly owns SFA, the entity that operates Saks Fifth Avenue's physical locations; O5, the operating company for Saks Off 5th stores; The Bay, an ecommerce marketplace and Hudson’s Bay, the operating company for Hudson’s Bay’s brick-and-mortar stores.

HBC also owns or controls, either entirely or with joint venture partners, approximately 40 million square feet of gross leasable real estate through its real estate and investment arm, HBC Properties and Investments, established in October 2020.

References

Thanks so much for your help. Alexandra for HBC (talk) 15:39, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

To push back, on 1) neither term is less subjective. The company was founded in 1670 what does early years mean? It was primarily a fur trading business from that point until well into the 20th century—nearly 400 years, and has not been primarily a fur trading company for less than one quarter of that time. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:12, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

 Partly done: Thank you for your patience. I agree with Walter Görlitz re the first point. I'll need an independent source for #2; the rest was implemented with minor modifications. PK650 (talk) 03:57, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi PK650. Thanks for your help with the above edits. I would like to suggest new wording for the sentence about the locations of the headquarters. I have supplied independent sources as you asked. I would like to point out that HBC no longer has an office in Brampton, and the new wording for the sentence reflects this. This source shows that the company moved its headquarters from Brampton to Toronto in 2020. The new sentence should say: "HBC's Canadian headquarters are located in Toronto and its U.S. headquarters are in New York."

I also have the following edits I would appreciate if you could implement:

• In the lead, in the paragraph that begins "In 2008, HBC was acquired by NRDC..."Please add the following directly after "Lord & Taylor." "At that time, Richard A. Baker became its executive chairman and governor. He took over as CEO in March 2020."
• Please add the following to the end of the first part of the 21st century section, right after the sentence "In March 2020, Baker and a group of shareholders were successful in taking the company private." Please begin a new paragraph: "Aside from Saks Fifth Avenue and Saks Off Fifth, HBC sold most of its other American operations by mid-2019, and sold Lord & Taylor in August 2019 to Le Tote for $75 million. They sold some of its European operations by August 2019 and its remaining stores, in the Netherlands, were closed by the end of 2019."

References

Thanks so much for all your help. Alexandra for HBC (talk) 14:15, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

I took care of it. Thank you for providing the requested sourcing. PK650 (talk) 07:57, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Hi PK650. Thanks again for all your help with the above edits. Thanks too for offering to look at my edit request for Richard A Baker as well, whenever you have time. Alexandra for HBC (talk) 14:00, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Michigan

I feel that the fact that Michigan's flag has an elk and moose from the Hudson Bay Company's coat of arms should be included somewhere, but the location it should be is a mystery to me. 173.64.103.212 (talk) 20:59, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

This is highly dubious for a couple reasons. (1) No part of Michigan was ever part of the HBC's territory. (2) The HBC coat of arms has neither an elk nor a moose. It has four beavers, a squirrel and "two bucks", i.e. male deer. Indefatigable (talk) 23:59, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Weak section: 1820-1840 period West of the Rockies

1 - Currently describes only nowadays US locations: Fort George (Astoria), Fort Vancouver, Fort Boise, Fort Hall, Yerba Buena trading post, Hawaii store and Northern California Siskiyou Trail 2 - Misses on other important nowadays US locations: Fort Nez Perce, Fort Colville, Fort Umpqua, Fort Nisqually, Cowlitz Prairie (farm) and other PSAC locations 3 - Entirely missed nowadays Canada/southern BC (Fort Langley and Fort Yale), northern coast up to Alaska, fur rich New Caledonia and central BC (Fort Alexandria hub). Also missed on cross-border brigades to York Factory, on the important Russia-America Company (RAC) agreement, on the SS Beaver first steamship to roam through the Pacific Northwest coastline and on the Red River colony Sinclair expedition to settle southern Washington. LeCanardQuoi (talk) 17:57, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

LeCanardQuoi (talk) Completed today a major revision of the 19th century section covering the Pacific Northwest as per planned change notice. Mackie is the main reference for the revision along with countless existing Wikipedia articles expanding on the HBC presence.