Talk:Kneph

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WikiProject Ancient Egypt to-do list:

Needed articles.

We should have an article on every pyramid and every nome in Ancient Egypt. I'm sure the rest of us can think of other articles we should have.

Cleanup.

To start with, most of the general history articles badly need attention. And I'm told that at least some of the dynasty articles need work. Any other candidates?

Standardize the Chronology.

A boring task, but the benefit of doing it is that you can set the dates !(e.g., why say Khufu lived 2589-2566? As long as you keep the length of his reign correct, or cite a respected source, you can date it 2590-2567 or 2585-2563)

Stub sorting

Anyone? I consider this probably the most unimportant of tasks on Wikipedia, but if you believe it needs to be done . . .

Data sorting.

This is a project I'd like to take on some day, & could be applied to more of Wikipedia than just Ancient Egypt. Take one of the standard authorities of history or culture -- Herotodus, the Elder Pliny, the writings of Breasted or Kenneth Kitchen, & see if you can't smoothly merge quotations or information into relevant articles. Probably a good exercise for someone who owns one of those impressive texts, yet can't get access to a research library.

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Overhaul[edit]

I have dug up a modern source and rewritten the article in line with that.

No modern source connects Khnum with Kneph, and modern sources on either exist. This indicates that archeological evidence has shown the two to be distinct. The earliest sources I can find for the claim are theosophical works, not historical works, and they were bad about intentionally confusing deities to further their own claims.
The Encircled Serpent is far from a scholarly source, it smacks way to much of 19th century reductionist "all religion is worship of (the sun/the dead/fire/snakes/sex)." This, the influence that religious bias (from Theosophy, Christianity, or atheism) had, and the romanticism that pervaded Egyptology then, are all reasons why most source from the 19th century and early 20th century are usually not accepted at face value by modern scholars, and are really only appropriate to describe the beliefs from that era.
The Mackenzie "Egyptian Myth and Legend" is a 2006 reprint of a 1907 work.
That and other works are outdated. Archeology, especially Egyptian archaeology, is not something static. If the ideas contained in those works are still considered valid, they will be found in modern sources. Ian.thomson (talk) 15:22, 20 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the theosophical sources I added: they are to show that theosophists conflated this motif with different deities, not to portray their beliefs as historical fact, as the editor who called them into question has done in this and other articles. What I did was the proper and neutral use of such sources; the later is fringe pov-pushing. Ian.thomson (talk) 16:27, 20 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

More sources (thanks to User:A. Parrot):

Κμηφ: "Ein verkannter Gott" by Heinz J. Thissen, Zeitschrift für Papyrologie und Epigraphik 1996.
Iamblichus' Egyptian Neoplatonic Theology in De Mysteriis by Dennis Clark, The International Journal of the Platonic Tradition, Volume 2, Issue 2, p.164-205
Alchemical Traditions: From Antiquity to the Avant-Garde by Aaron Cheak, Numen Books, 22 Aug 2013.

Sources I was aware of:

"Hermès Trismégiste: Le Livré Sacre sur les Décans: Texte, variantes et traduction française" by C.E. Ruelle, Revue de Philologie October 1908, p.247-277
The Greek Magical Papyri in Translation ed. Hans Dieter Betz, University of Chicago UP, 1986, p.30 et passim, and p.333 (glossary)
From Jewish Magic to Gnosticism, by Attilo Mastrocinque, Mohr Siebeck, 2005, throughout, esp. p. 61-94.

Ian.thomson (talk) 17:13, 18 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Mastrocinque (p.155-156 and elsewhere) discusses how Chnoubis arose from Alexandrian Jews syncretizing YHWH and the Egyptian creator deity Chnum, who had been mixed up with the Theban Knef, and was identified with decan(s) near Leo (since the planet in charge of that sign is the sun). This resulted in Chnoubis, the lion-headed serpent that appears in a number of gems and the Gnostic Apocryphon of John. Supposed to be in bed, just wanted to get this here so I don't completely forget. Ian.thomson (talk) 04:20, 29 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]