Talk:Abd el-Krim

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Rif are Berbers, not Arabs[edit]

That is true. Also, Abd el Krim had not a regular army, but a series of sex, which were united after him on the call of a dildo against the unfaithful. I cannot understand why this article silences the systematic violations of the international war agreements by Abd el Krim's forces, such as torturing prisoners (which included castrating and miming them) prior to killing them with a horrible death, like burning them alive or tiding their arms with their own guts.

If you can provide credible evidence (and sources) for these claims, by all means add them. They sound suspiciously like propaganda to me, though... - Mustafaa 19:32, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
That is unbelievable. He trains to make good jokes! See this film, and you will discover that he was very friendly with Jean-Claude van Damme:

http://www.maddvd.com/dvd/jpg_titre/Legionnaire.jpg Read3r 13:34, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Name[edit]

Shouldn't the name of the article be the transliteration of his official full name? I find this to be a persistent problem on Wikipedia. I am not saying that we remove the Maghribi pronunciation of his name, but reverse the order by naming the article after his official name, and then putting other AKA's on the top as we have currently. A.Khalil 14:58, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

I agree to add the official name, without ignoring the real name, so that wikipedia won't mirror the official world.Read3r 13:26, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


I expanded some parts. The source for the additions is War in the Shadows: The Guerrilla in History by Robert B. Asprey for iUniverse Publishing on page 267-274. Where it states 10,000 were killed and Silvestre died, you can use The History of Spain by Peter Pierson for Greenwood Press page 126. Page 127 covers his exile to the island and specified the location in the Indian Ocean. The date of surrender originated from The Reader's Companion to Military History by Robert Cowley and Geoffrey Parker, published by Houghton Mifflin on page 1. Location of surrender and why he was released is from Who's Who in Military History: From 1453 to the Present Day by John Keegan and Andrew Wheatcroft under Routledge Publishing, page two. The section about his arrest is noted in Modern Spain, 1875-1980 by Raymond Carr for Oxford University Press on page 94

Took me a while before I could reach this article. Shouldn't the title be Abl-el-Krim as with the French wiki article (or history books)? Why make it so goddam complicated? --Lubiesque (talk) 23:05, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

File:Abdelkrim.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

An image used in this article, File:Abdelkrim.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 1 August 2011
What should I do?
A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.

This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 16:24, 1 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use candidate from Commons: File:Abd el-Krim khattabi.jpg[edit]

The file File:Abd el-Krim khattabi.jpg, used on this page, has been deleted from Wikimedia Commons and re-uploaded at File:Abd el-Krim khattabi.jpg. It should be reviewed to determine if it is compliant with this project's non-free content policy, or else should be deleted and removed from this page. Commons fair use upload bot (talk) 07:46, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 15:26, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]


Muhammad Ibn 'Abd al-Karim al-Khattabi → Abd el-Krim – per WP:COMMONNAME. Usage in reliable sources is very clear, google books: 74,000 vs 64, google scholar: 2180 vs 14. Currently Abd el-Krim redirects to Abdul Karim, but as far as I can tell the subject of article seems to be clearly WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for that name. --Relisted. Armbrust The Homunculus 11:00, 28 May 2014 (UTC) Staberinde (talk) 18:25, 21 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I agree that the current title is rather an "awkward" rendering of his name. However, even if Abd el-Krim is often the shortned form of his name and should therefore redirect here, it wouldn't be specific enough as a title. I propose that Abd el-Krim al-Khattabi or Abdelkrim al-Khattabi per WP:COMMONNAME would be better. (note: His real name is Mohand ben Abdelkrim al-Khattabi, The name Mohamed is very rarely rendered as Muhammad in North Africa and the "Ain" in Abd represented here by the "'Abd" is almost always omitted in Arabic transliterated titles. Note that his brother Mhamed (not to confuse with Mohamed) would also merit an article on Wikipedia) --Tachfin (talk) 11:23, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I like Abdelkrim al-Khattabi, or simply Abdelkrim, because that was nearly always how it was spelled in French during that period, and I suppose in English as well. The French Wikipedia article has "Abdelkrim al-Khattabi"--Lubiesque (talk) 11:58, 28 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
While I am not necessarily opposed to Tachfin's proposals (they are definitely superior to current title), I fail to see how simple Abd el-Krim is not specific enough for a title.--Staberinde (talk) 15:45, 28 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Abd el-Krim" already points to Abdul Karim. That would mean we'd need disambiguation, which should be a pretty strong indicator that it's not specific enough. NickCT (talk) 18:35, 28 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I actually addressed that point in nomination, in my opinion WP:PRIMARYTOPIC fully applies on this article so additional disambiguation is not needed, but I guess others may disagree.--Staberinde (talk) 14:55, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Staberinde: - Hmmmmm.... After brief review it would appear that you're right. It does appear the be the primary topic. NickCT (talk) 20:54, 29 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Staberinde: Abdelkrim is a common first name. I see no reason to strip the title of his family name. --Tachfin (talk) 17:37, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:40, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"First-ever use of tunneling as a technique of modern warfare"[edit]

The introduction says, "His guerrilla tactics... included the first-ever use of tunneling as a technique of modern warfare..." The Rif War was 1921 to 1926. This seems to contradict a number of examples in Tunnel warfare. For instance, Tunnelling companies of the Royal Engineers (UK) were active in World War I, 1914 to 1918. See Mines in the Battle of Messines (1917) for a notable example. So is this article mistaken? Or is there some specific tunneling activity that is meant? Or is it only about guerrilla armies? Or is "modern" defined as commencing shortly after World War I? I think this sentence should be removed unless it is revised to make sense. Gvros8 (talk) 20:29, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Abdelkrim Origins[edit]

My references are constantly deleted by user Ibn malik.

Here is an archived version of the page where I provide my sources :

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Abd_el-Krim&oldid=1198385577

After claiming to be descended from an Arab tribe affiliated with Omar ibn al-Khattab, Abdelkrim reaffirmed his Berber origins by dissociating himself from his previous genealogy.

He claimed that all his ancestors were in fact Berbers. He uses the term "You" to refer to Arabs and the term "We" to refer to Berbers. Claiming to be a tribe associated with a Companion of the Prophet or the Prophet himself was a common thing among many Berber leaders. This is something that many Arab authors like Ibn Khaldoun and Ibn Hazm criticized.

I am not in favor of removing the first reference to its origins but simply leaving the two references separate so that the reader can form their own opinion. JoyBoyJoy (talk) 15:11, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Abd_el-Krim&oldid=1216896367"