Talk:Hair of the dog

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Estonian is not a Slavic language but Fenno-Baltic.

Untitled

I think that last sentence is a run-on. If it's not, it's so long I can't tell for sure. Oi.

The article is pretty hairy in general. I broke up the last sentence of the first paragraph. But, what does it mean that the idea may never have been put into practice? People talked about making dog-hair cures, but never actually did it?

I also put a little distance between vaccination and homeopathy. Perhaps that reflects a bias on my part, but I think the edits themselves are NPOV. I removed the last clause of "Homeopathic medicine is largely based on this idea, or more accurately it's reverse," because, despite several attempts, I couldn't clarify what was being stated here. Prevention rather than cure was the best I could come up with, but I wasn't at all confident. Somegeek 02:28, 2005 May 3 (UTC)

Interestly, the phrase, "or, more acurately, it's reverse" actually makes more sense to me than the edited version. The original concept is:

(1) Do or be exposed to something that could induce illness

(2) Consume a derivative or small portion of the thing you were exposed to in the first place

=> Be healthy

So, what the article is saying is that with homeopathic medicine & vaccines, the concept is reversed:

(1) Consume a derivative or small portion of a thing that could make you ill

(2) Do or be exposed to that same thing

=> Be healthy

Of course, whether you believe that either vaccines or homeopathy work according to that concept is an indepedent discussion. 64.202.11.2 17:52, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

references needed

I honestly don't know how drunk the people that wrote this article were, but several problems jump out right away. For one, the article is grammatically deficient. For two, the phrase is incomplete. Nobody's going to understand "Hair of the dog." The phrase is, "a hair of the dog that bit you." And as for the references to Latin, etc., it would be nice if anyone could actually cite some sources!

Having lived in Costa Rica, I have never heard the phrases discussed here, which is not to say they aren't used. Still, YOU SHOULD CITE SOME SOURCES. The phrase I HAVE heard is "un pelo del perro que te mordió" --which means, guess what? A hair of the dog that bit you.

This page does not conform to Wikipedia's standards. I highly recommend cleaning it up.

Chaim1221 (talk) 17:10, 3 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The assertion ""It is a shortened form of the phrase "The Hair of the Cocker Spaniel That Bit Your Hand"."" seems gratuitous. It reads to me as if someone were having a joke.

Agreed, and also the comment about hands of the same size... have reverted these two edits by anonymous user 128.83.205.99. Colonel Mustard 02:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Two more detailed explanations: The first referrs to a poem credited to a Greek comic dramatist Aristophanes (448-387 BC): [1] and [2] -both seem to source the Dictionary of Phrase and Fable[3]. The second is related to the translation of a Hebrew pun: [4].

Citations have been inserted into the article, but they do not link to any references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.48.158 (talk) 04:41, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Verifiability - No sources cited in article

This article seems to violate the Wikipedia verifiability rule. No sources are cited for alleged facts.

I found a source, and listed it. Someone may clean it up, if they want, but the phrase is listed in E. Cobham Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable (1898) (too old for general use?), attributed to a poem by Aristophanes. It's also in common use in TV and literature... I found some references in various TV show titles, "Gone with the Wind" (novel), and William Hazlitt's work.

False

Wow, I can't believe I'm doing this, but just in case anyone has left any doubt, or people couldn't interpret the nerd-speak, IT DOESN'T WORK. It has no scientific basis and has nothing to do with vaccines, because it doesn't involve viruses or bacteria. Any doctor will tell you it's hogwash (although he wouldn't the word 'hogwash') and as stated above, the best thing is not to over-indulge, but if you do... I recommend, eating a banana, taking a multi-vitamin and a couple aspirin BEFORE you start drinking. If you forget, then do it in the morning and drink lots of agua (something you should do while you're drinking also, they say one glass of water per drink is best). If you really overdo it and feel naseous, for God's sake, let it go and get that leftover alcohol out of your system asap (before you take your vitamins etc of course).

Don't Delete

While I agree that perhaps origins and accuracy of the phrase might need to be checked, the article should definitely stay. Of course this is not a "cure" for a hangover, everyone knows that, but people do it. Linking to the hangover article might be a good idea.

I agree about not deleting, but it has to be mentioned clearly that this practice is dubious.--Greece666 02:24, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It may work

Alcolhol has traditionally been used as an anaesthetic. I presume due to it´s depressive effect on the brain, as described in the article. Of course, this can be used to lessen the pain, head-ache and maybe also psycholygical moodyness coused by hangover. It also makes it easier for the poor drunkard to fall asleep. The use may be unwise, but to explicitly state that the method doesn´n work is to go too far.

Indeed. One of the multiple causes of a hangover is the breaking of methanol (present in small amounts in alcoholic beverages) by the liver. Ethanol blocks the metabolism of methanol (ethanol is used by medics in case of methanol intoxication). However, by drinking alcoholic beverage, you add up methanol in the process so it is only a temporary relief.

Actually, a newspaper article I read recently claimed that ethanol metabolisation, if constantly applied, will allow for the methanol to be removed by other means, i. e. just excreted via breath and urine. A quick Google search brought this, for example:

https://www.wirenewsfax.com/emergency-in-vietnam-doctors-treat-alcohol-poisoning-with-beer-cans This was quoted by German Der Spiegel. It does appear to make sense. Ondundozonananandana (talk) 20:04, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Commercial use of the phrase

I removed ""Hair O' The Dog" is a small chain of liquor and fine wine stores in Easton, MD, USA" from Notes. Other uses of the phrase, if they are notable and meet the other Wikipedia criteria should be placed in their own article and listed on the Hair of the dog (disambiguation) page. Bejnar 16:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Treatment notice

The "Treatment notice" Medical professionals should be consulted about the proper treatment for hangovers, alcohol withdrawal, and withdrawal from other drugs. was placed in the article after several people complained that 'hair of the dog' treatments didn't work and that therefore the article ought to be deleted. They didn't seem to understand the difference between the facts about a cultural concept and the absolute truth of the concept. Notice restored as it keeps people from making foolish edits. Bejnar 22:59, 10 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scientific Background

This sentence does not make scientific sense: "Medically, consuming alcohol may help with mitigating the headache of a hangover by depressing the central nervous system".

Alcohol depresses the CNS. The sentence does not explain why drinking more alcohol once hungover improves things with a the depression of the CNS?

Delirium Tremens is a syndrome due to alcohol withdrawal Not a symptom.

This sentence does not make scientific sense: "Some researchers have suggested that ethanol may help dilute other alcohols that cause many of the hangover symptoms, but no controlled studies have been carried out."

I would suggest a reference before considering it for inclusion.

(This actually does make sense, a hangover is in part caused by the toxic effects of other alcohols, specifically, methyl alcohol,found in any fermented drink. Adding ethanol to the body will dilute methanol and therefore remove some of the work load from the liver, making it easier to breakdown the methyl alcohol into something that can be removed from the body.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.224.219.162 (talk) 14:03, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Depending on the amount of alcohol consumed, the type of alcohol, the amount of water consumed with the alcohol, the health of the consumer, and the accommodation to alcohol of the consumer, a hangover will last from a few hours to a few days." Deleted as this refers to Hangover. A little too much of this talk in the Scientific background of Hair of the dog.

I feel like I have to add that Methanol, being a much lighter molecule than Ethanol, more readily evaporates. Evaporation is one of the mechanisms the body uses to eliminate both ethanol and methanol, as both of these evaporate more readily than water. This requires no special references, as the smell of the alcohols can readily be detected in someone's breath, and the exhaled alcohol levels can be linked to the blood alcohol levels, which is a basic principle the breath-analyzers use. The references for this (how easily water evaporates, compared to ethanol and methanol) are fairly easy to find, so I wouldn't waste any more space for this (even a high school level experiment can prove this). Instead, I would recommend these two references: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1306022/ and http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1174890-treatment. These show that the standard treatment for high methanol toxicity is the introduction of additional ethanol into the human body. The point is, during this time, the preference of the human body enzymes for ethanol processing over methanol processing, that contributes to the reduction of the highly poisonous methanol metabolites production, is further enhanced by the preferential evaporation (elimination through the lungs, by breathing) of the blood methanol. In other words, the methanol being a smaller and more readily evaporated molecule than ethanol, contributes to the therapeutic effects of using ethanol as an antidote for methanol poisoning.

There are a few theories on how "hair of the dog" works, but little information about whether it does or does not work, or studies to that effect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lollookamrjoe (talk • contribs) 22:40, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Homeopathic

This page is about Hair of the Dog. The only mention of Homeopathic cures is to compare and contrast them. This is not the place to argue about how and whether homeopathic cures work. --Bejnar 00:14, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was trying to get across the point that homeopathy, while treating 'like with like', generally treats ailments with an extreme dilution of something entirely different - although something which apparently produces the same symptoms in higher concentrations. I've reduced the controversial words a bit now. HiddenInPlainSight 10:07, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

infinitesimal is a charged word. The amounts are measured, small, but measured. See Homeopathic Pharmacopia of United States, HPUS. --Bejnar 23:39, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please, this is not an article about homeopathy. Keep it short and sweet with links. --Bejnar 23:39, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the production of similar symptoms. One does not have to believe in the efficaciousness of homeopathy, to realize that capsium, in volume, can produce watery eyes and nose. Allopathic medicine (non-deprecatory usage) may be using homeopathic methods to deal with allergies. They mix up these person specific shots containing pollen in order to develop resistance. See, for example "Allergy shots: Hope for long-term allergy relief" from the Mayo Clinic. Personally I don't believe in homeopathic medicine. I take decongestants and antihistamines. We need to avoid weasel words if possible. It is claimed is not necessary here, nor is the debate. If there is factual dispute about homeopathy, that should be dealt with in the Homeopathy article. --Bejnar 23:59, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Popular culture and The Shining

Wy was my reference to The Shining removed?? I could agree about the werewolf part not being relevant, but why the whole reference itsef is less relevant than the others??? -- NIC1138 00:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Origin and derivation

I believe that the editor who removed the text below was correct. It does not relate to the theory about consuming alcohol to cure a hangover. It is not sympathetic magic. --Bejnar 15:01, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The cure may have originated in Canaan, 1200 BCE. Archaeologists have found a Canaanite text concerning "a god getting drunk and having to be carried home to bed." At the end of the text was a recipe^[1] for a hangover cure, perhaps the original hair of the dog.^[2]

References

^ The recipe was translated as: "What is to be put on his forehead: hairs of a dog, and the head of the PQQ [a type of plant] and its shoot he is to drink mixed together with fresh olive oil."
^ Leroux, Charles (30 March 2007) "New voice for the oldest song ever" Chicago Tribune;

Popular culture references

Reverted the change to remove the pop culture references, seemed silly to remove them in the first place though I think it should be trimmed up a little bit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.252.98 (talk) 16:23, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In popular culture

The "in popular culture" was just a list of any time anyone ever heard the phase used, so i blanked it.160.36.238.124 (talk) 18:08, 3 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"In popular culture" sections have been discussed and debated at length on Wikipedia and there's plenty in the guidelines about what's unsuitable and how to maintain them. Deleting the whole lot is hardly very productive. _ɹəə pıɔnı 03:42, 4 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Trivia/Additional Information

Can we give examples where this is used in the media? I think in Monkey Island 3 this term was used literally, but I'm not sure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.163.91.84 (talk) 14:03, 2 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Economic Context

I've heard and read the term mentioned in an economic context several times, in critic of inflationary policies (increasing state debt in order to solve the economic problems caused by the deficite). Example: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1706769,00.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.83.206.41 (talk) 14:03, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

[1] The recipe was translated as: "What is to be put on his forehead: hairs of a dog, and the head of the PQQ [a type of plant] and its shoot he is to drink mixed together with fresh olive oil."

[2] Leroux, Charles (30 March 2007) "New voice for the oldest song ever" Chicago Tribune;

[1]

[2]