Talk:Scytale

French language link

I'm not sure of the usefulness of an external link to a French thesis here, simply because this is the English language Wikipedia. The manual of style says,

Under most circumstances, it is not useful to list URLs to webpages in languages other than English under "External links." However, if you feel it is necessary — for example, if the subject of the article is a Spanish-language newspaper — but indicate what language the site is in.

Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Foreign-language_sites — Matt 13:33, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The source being linked to is the most detailed historical summary in existence for this topic but does not exist in English as far as I know. The link states what the language is and people afraid of seeing French don't need to click on it. --Zero 14:59, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)

While part of the problem with a French-language link is that it's off-topic for an English-language Wikipedia, a more serious problem is that it's not possible for English-only speakers to evaluate the usefulness of the link: because many editors don't speak French, they can't click through and read the thesis, and confirm that it should be included. Instead, they have to take it on trust. Don't get me wrong, I don't have any reason to suspect that it isn't a vitally important link; on the other hand, non-French speaking editors don't have any way to verify that it is. — Matt 03:37, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Many links require expertise of some sort to evaluate them. The issue is whether the article is more useful with the link there than it would be without the link, and I think the answer to that is obvious. --Zero 11:26, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Is it obvious if you don't speak French? My argument is that it's not at all obvious; without speaking French, it's difficult to evaluate a French-language link, and hence it's difficult to see whether the article is more useful with the link than without. But I suspect energy could be better spent elsewhere than debating this; could we at least present the reference slightly more completely -- can we translate the title into English and note the author / year / institute etc? — Matt 00:56, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I don't speak French but I found it quite useful. Anyway, I expanded the citation somewhat. It will help some people, be meaningless for some people, and harm nobody. --Zero 13:23, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Pronunciation?

Can somebody put something about the pronunciation in the first paragraph? Maybe with IPA? It's not at all clear from the spelling. Staecker 19:55, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

answering Pronunciation

I put something in there, and I think that's how it's pronounced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.221.47.251 (talk) 04:54, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Pronuciation 2

Greek being my native language, I have never come across this pronunciation. The actual word is σκυτάλη, which is clearly stressed on α. Thus, sc'ytali and rhyming with Italy is to the best of my knowledge nonsensical. If someone has any sources proving otherwise please do so. If not, a correction to this (as well as linking articles) should be made. --Chrysalifourfour (talk) 19:18, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

My friend, being Greek myself as well and a philologist, I must remind you our ancestors did not stress words as you point out, but used pitch (ὀξεία, βαρεία ὀξυβαρεία). Forget about the modern pronunciation, as it is irrelevant for the most part. The reference made in the article that Σκυτάλη rhymes with Italy is only so that the English speaker can understand how it is pronounced, with less emphasis on the stress of the word.

Might I suggest it be replaced by a phonetic example instead, for clarity: "Skitálee"; I think this should solve this little quibble. ____Ἑλλαιβάριος Ellaivarios____ 17:30, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

True indeed, however that is not what appears to be in the article, as the IPA clearly shows (/ˈskɪtəliː/). If an english word is needed as an example why not use Bengali or any other equivocal? As for the pitch/stress subject, you're probably more knowledgeable than myself, although some sources on it would be more than welcome. Φιλικά - --Chrysalifourfour (talk) 01:16, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Message authentication

Frank Russell hypothesizes that the skytale was used for message authentication rather than encryption (Information gathering in classical Greece (p117), 1999 U. Michigan Press). For this purpose the device is actually quite good, because an adversary cannot inject messages through fake couriers without intercepting a real message and working out the diameter of the staff first. That part is quite easy, so it's not good as a cipher.

I'm new to editing of Wiki, so I'm commenting here instead, letting the oldies choose to include or not;) Geirem (talk) 12:49, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

SOURCES PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

"From indirect evidence, the scytale was first mentioned by the Greek poet Archilochus, who lived in the 7th century BC. Other Greek and Roman writers during the following centuries also mentioned it, but it was not until Apollonius of Rhodes (middle of the 3rd century BC) that a clear indication of its use as a cryptographic device appeared."

Can someone please, tell me where and in what sense should Apollonius of Rhodes be mentioned here? "[...] not until Apollonius of Rhodes (middle of the 3rd century BC) that a clear indication of its use as a cryptographic device appeared." Please send me a personal message as well, as I am researching this and have a great interest on this matter, so I would really appreciate this. ____Ἑλλαιβάριος Ellaivarios____ 17:22, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Expand Article with more information on "Skytalodromia" and Athletic usage of the term from antiquity till Present

The Article would greatly benefit from an inclusion of more information on the usage of the Skytale as part of athletic competitions in antiquity, Olympia, and how these have survived till present. ____Ἑλλαιβάριος Ellaivarios____ 17:38, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Another article?

Anyone have access to this article? Jackiespeel (talk) 11:59, 3 November 2018 (UTC)