User talk:Lupin/archive4

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Suggestions for UK towns maps

Hi, I have a couple of suggestions for the type of map demonstrated on the Dorchester article. Firstly, a small red dot on a green background is difficult for those with red/green colour blindness to find, white or yellow would probably stand out better. Second, have you considered whether to show the towns on maps the scale of the districts maps, e.g. Image:DorsetWest.png? I'm wondering if that might show the location with more accuracy (and fit in the table better). The second point is mere speculation however. Joe D (t) 01:47, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. I'll change the red to a yellow dot I think. Personally I like seeing both the location of the town in the country as a whole and the location of the town within the county, as in Oxford. The software I'm using doesn't have any county data for it though, as far as I know. Lupin 01:52, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the maps. Any possibility of the Welsh & Scottish borders being indicated? In other news, the 100miles indicator is too small to be read, and the Shetland Isles might want to be indicated or shown in an inset box ... I suggest we just scuttle the scilly isles. thanks --Tagishsimon (talk)

I'm producing these things in a semi-automated way using Generic Mapping Tools. I don't think the Scottish or Welsh borders are available to this software (but would appreciate it if someone can correct me on this) and I'm not sure about inset Shetland Islands. This could be done by hand if you really care, but my current policy is only to include them if the dot would otherwise not be visible (see Lerwick for an example, although this is a little buggy for some reason. Kirkwall looks better for the Orkneys, anyway). As for the scale, it's readable when you zoom the image and I can just read it unzoomed (in a standard thumbnail, not in a 115px image), so I'm not too worried about that... maybe I'll reconsider this if more people complain!

If you have a unix/cygwin environment then you could try fiddling with the stuff at User:Lupin/mapping to get something to your liking. Lupin 16:38, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Can you make a little map thing for West Bridgford ?

Konquerer problem?

Not sure what's wrong with your PNG files but under Konqueror they have a blank space to the right and below with either a random pattern or blackness.Billlion 21:57, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Odd. I just installed Konquerer (on Debian sid) and the images I looked at were fine, both thumbnailed and full-size. Is there any image in particular which looks bad to you? I've noticed that a few aren't uploading correctly for some reason. Lupin 22:14, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Its the one on [Whaley Bridge] I noticed had the problem. I am using Konquerer 3.2.0 under Mandrake 10.0 Billlion 09:43, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

I just noticed the same problem at Image:Chesterfield - Derbyshire dot.png. The PNG file has an offset of some sort. You can see what I'm talking about by opening the file in the Gimp. I bet you used ImageMagick to crop the map? I've seen that cause this problem.

By the way, isn't it possible to position these dots with CSS? I'm pretty sure I've seen locator maps around that do it that way, with a map image and a dot image positioned on top. Would be much easier to maintain ... dbenbenn | talk 6 July 2005 03:44 (UTC)

Maps

Could you please try to fit the your maps in with the existing layout of the article. On some of the articles you've messed up the layout, by putting the map at the top and forcing down pictures that were already there. Also what is the point in adding maps to articles which already have location maps? G-Man 15:58, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

If I have time, I will do. On the other hand, I use the classic skin which seems to make the layout change, so things which look fine to me may not to you. Lupin 21:32, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Image:Ichthus.png

Can I get the svg of this, so that I can make a better darwin fish? Burgundavia 17:10, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)

Now at User:Lupin/ichthus.svg. Lupin 01:44, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Totnes

I like your Totnes map addition, and yes it should go at the beginning, --SqueakBox 01:24, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

UK-geo-stub

I've just removed the icon you added to {{UK-geo-stub}}. The stub template used to have a very good image, but icons have been removed from all the heavy-use stub categories because of server problems (see [[1]]). Please do not add images to stub templates until the problem is resolved (at which time, hopefully many of the former images will be replaced!) Grutness|^hello? 01:39, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for all the work you are doing on adding location maps. Much appreciated. Best Wishes - Adrian Pingstone 08:10, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Lupinbot

Are you running a bot without a bot flag? You must get approval before running a bot. -Frazzydee|✍ 23:22, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I've blocked this bot as per policy laid out at Wikipedia:Bots. Please contact me for more information, or to tell me off if I was wrong. But since the account is named Lupinbot and was rapidly uploading images, I think that it was safe for me to assume it was a bot. Since I saw it on RC, it evidently doesn't have the bot flag. I apologize if I was wrong. -Frazzydee|✍ 23:27, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I noticed that it autoblocked an IP...I don't think that the autoblock can be removed without unblocking the user, so if you were running Lupinbot from your machine, you may have to use this link: Special:Emailuser/Frazzydee. -Frazzydee|✍ 23:47, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry that you feel that way, but I had to do it. I didn't know whether you were watching it or not; I also didn't know how long it was set to run for. I had no choice but to ban it indefinitely until I got confirmation that you would turn it off. I have unblocked it now, please don't run it. Thanks. -Frazzydee|✍ 00:21, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hmm...I looked at the block list and Lupinblock was unblocked, but I'm going to try unblocking the autoblock. If that doesn't help please leave me another message. If it automaticly blocks the IP, shouldn't it automaticly unblock it too? :S Sorry for any inconvenience caused. -Frazzydee|✍ 00:37, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Seems back to normal now. Lupin 00:44, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You really aren't running a bot?? But you corrected my link syntax before I could do it myself! ;) (mochigome) --Dforest 05:12, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Kitchener pictures

Thanks for the excellent Kitchener photos! I was planning to take some like this myself, but camera+spare time+good light is not a formula I've been able to put together lately.

Now I can start on that Kitchener City Hall article I've been musing about... Radagast 19:49, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

The Unverifiedimage Template

Although I agree with your philosophy, I do not agree with how you went about changing the template. And now there's a lot of work to be done. ;) Since you wanted to keep the image, but add a little informative text, the best way is to have a bunch of text that you add into image summaries, and I've updated it accordingly. Your current implemntation was quite a horror.

But this requires all of the articles that were using it to be refactored. Here's what you can help (I've already done a lot, but it takes a long time and I need to go to bed now):

• Kristin Chenoweth
• List of Number 1 singles from the 1970s (UK)
• Jackie Trent
• Je Tsongkhapa

Some of the images are missing too... Anyway, thanks! Ambush Commander 03:21, May 1, 2005 (UTC)

And don't forget: What links here??? Ambush Commander 03:22, May 1, 2005 (UTC)

Lancaster

The discussion at Talk:Lancaster (disambiguation) concerned moving the article to Lancaster, England, so that's the change I've recommended at Wikipedia:Requested moves. Assuming that's accomplished, I suggest you then take up the question of whether it should be at Lancaster, Lancashire. I mention this because I notice you moved the article there at one point. The discussion about where "Lancaster" should take a reader clearly didn't address those two different titles for the article about the English city. JamesMLane 22:10, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

LupinBot

Hello. LupinBot is now marked with a bot flag. Please add something to its user page explaining what it does and stating that you are the owner of it. Angela. 23:51, May 6, 2005 (UTC)

Leesa and Laura Andrew

Hiho. We have received an email complaint from the twins' mother who says this whole page is a hoax and who asks us to remove it (through the OTRS). She's the one who has been blanking the page all along. I must say a google search is not really probing as to the story of these two girls. I am then going to put it up for deletion. In the meantime, I am going to blank it to avoid further problems. Since you seem to be following it and I am not around much (rather on the fr wp), I thank you for now to leave it blank and restore it then if the VfD should go that way. Is that Ok with you? Cheers. notafish }<';> 17:43, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

OK, although I think you should say something on the talk page to this effect. Lupin 20:01, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Dotty maps

Please understand - I am totally in favour of your dotty maps - every GB place article should have one. But - the proper way to produce these maps is by means of a program/script/engine that generates them dynamically, taking as input the co-ordinates and the map size. When one of your maps is displayed as a thumbnail the image is created dynamically by reducing the file you have uploaded. Only a small amount of extra effort (both in programming and in processing) would be required to add the dot to a blank map during this reduction process. This idea has already been suggested for Wikipedia - see this proposal.

But if you are going to use separate uploaded images, I have some suggestions:

• The image files are ridiculously big - ten times too large - by image size and by file size.
• The scale bar is difficult to read at the thumbnail size and it is wrong - it represents about 65 km not 100 km.
• I hope you have a list of all the files you have uploaded - there may be a decision to delete them one day. They should be placed in a specific category.
• The names are far too specific. The dot represents about 30 km so one image file would do for several articles.

Both the names and the lack of any index put off people who might be willing to collaborate and use an existing image file in an article. I would suggest a generic naming standard of GBdot_XX99 where XX99 is the grid reference of the 10 km square on which the dot is centred.

Under your naming method we would need separate maps for Coningsby and Tattershall. But if you call the map GBdot_TF25, it is obvious that one map will do for both those places and also for New York and a few other villages when Lincspoacher writes them up. Indeed, no one would notice if you used the same map for Boston, Martin, Timberland, Woodhall Spa, etc.

I like to add co-ordinates to any GB article that lacks them. I would be happy to add dotty maps as well - if they had sensible names. As a start, look at Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:GBdot-gr. One image file - a mere 12 kbytes in size is used in seven articles already - with several more needing to be written. -- RHaworth 17:54, 2005 May 8 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. To address your points:

• Of course dynamic map generation (properly done) would be better than what I'm doing now. Until it arrives, I'll continue with this.
• The image size does err on the large size. I like this as you can zoom in (if you want to) to see more detail and where the places lie in relation to the rivers and coastline. I don't see any real advantage in sacrificing detail for file size given that we have a nice thumbnailing system in place.
• I will investigate making the scale larger and check to see if it is correct or not. The software I'm using puts the scale in automatically so it should be right, but maybe I've messed something up.

• The scale bar for Image:Nottingham - Nottinghamshire dot.png is near enough the right length but at 2½ pixels wide it is too narrow - I am surprised it shows up at all when scaled down by a factor of 15. -- RWH

• I have a partial list of maps at User:Lupin/maplist, although I make no claims to comprehensiveness or accuracy. Other lists could be generated by looking at contributions from User:LupinBot or by using "what links here" from the GBdot and GBdot-small templates. I could put any new maps into some category if you want, but I'd leave categorizing the exising images to someone else with a bot.
• Your proposal for naming is interesting. I hope to continue to make maps for towns in other countries (and have done some such as Espoo and Pingyao). Am I right in thinking that the grid references are UK-specific?

• To quote from [2]: Many nations have defined grid systems based on coordinates that cover their territory, including: Australia, Belgium, Great Britain, Finland, Ireland, Italy, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Sweden and Switzerland. The grid refs for these maps are GB specific - see British national grid reference system. There is a separate Irish national grid reference system. -- RWH

• With regards to using one map for several places - yes I'm sure you're right, no-one would notice, but given that it is possible to do this precisely, I'd prefer to stick with dots in exactly the right place, which means lots of maps. For example, comparing Image:Allenton - City of Derby dot.png and Image:Derby - City of Derby dot.png, it's possible to see that Allenton is SE of Derby, which I think is information worth preserving. It's also a lot easier for me to automate this way as I have a large list of GB places with latitude/longitude, but no grid references.

Lupin 19:28, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

• Come off it - it is impossible to see any difference. If you click to get the full size maps, it requires a lot of fiddling and re-sizing of windows to get the two dots visible together to see any difference.

If you don't like grid refs, use names based on steps of 5 mins of latitude and 10 mins of longitude.

I note that you have created category:GBdot but I still feel that it is a bit difficult for people to help you in adding maps to articles.

I hope your are watching Wikipedia talk:UK Wikipedians' notice board#Infobox template for Places -- RHaworth 05:42, 2005 May 9 (UTC)

Other suggestions

• I think it would be better to have two separate base maps - one for England and Wales and one for Scotland.

• My personal preference is to be able to see where a town lies in relation to the whole country. That way I can compare maps to see where an English town lies in relation to a Scottish town etc. Lupin

• How? There are no towns marked on the map.

• By comparing two maps, each of which has a town marked. Lupin

• There is a curious black line wiggling across Ireland. Given that the only features that the map shows are rivers, this line is a most unneccessary political intrusion - I suggest remove it asap.

• Again, my personal preference is to keep this. For Irish towns, it gives you an idea of how far they are from the border. Why not keep this information? Lupin

• Since you have obviously got the coordinates for each place, why do you keep them to yourself? Surely they should be added to each article at the same time as you add the map - template:coor gb or template:coor gbx if you only have lat/long.

• I'll have a go at this. If you like, I could generate a list containing all of this data. By the way, how does one convert lat/long into GB grid references? Lupin 13:12, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

• You don't have to - {{Coor|52.1_N_-1.92_E_region:GB|{{Coor|52.1_N_-2.12_E_region:GB|}}}} or one of several variant templates which call coor all accept lat/long - and display a Grid ref on the Map Sources page. Or you can use streetmap's conversion function. (Use template:oscoor for conversion of Grid refs to lat/long.) -- RHaworth 14:10, 2005 May 9 (UTC)

• Yes, but is there a way external to wikipedia for converting lat/long to OS grid references, ie a simple algorithm I can put in a script? In other news, it turns out that I do have OS grid references for my data so may rethink my naming based on that. I am still of the opinion that four-character grid refs don't give a fine enough granularity though. Lupin 14:25, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

• RHaworth 05:42, 2005 May 9 (UTC)

Conversion algorithms

The maths, although tedious, is only algebra and trigonometry. Work your way through this lot:

• Introduction - includes link to a spreadsheet
• convert.c - both way conversions. This converted very easily into oscoor_a.htm (see next link) so would probably convert to other scripts equally easily
• The javascript that template:oscoor calls - converts Grid Refs to lat/long. Includes links to more C code at York and the Ordnance Survey guide to conversion
• Egil's code for what template:coor calls - transversemercator.php is the one of interest. Ie. converts lat/long to Grid Refs
• Ordnance Survey spreadsheet - I have never got into this to understand it
• Geotools - an open source Java GIS toolkit - only 5 Mbytes of source code for you to study - if you speak Java
• My Furl may contain other stuff

Since you like to position your dots precisely, you need to be aware that "coor" and "oscoor" are both likely to give 140 metre discrepancies between their coordinates and those used in other places, eg. multimap - see note in this paragraph. -- RHaworth 22:08, 2005 May 9 (UTC)

Uploadtext

I modified it to:

If you want to use an exclusive free license other than the GFDL, you must upload your files to the Wikimedia Commons.

Is that better? -- AllyUnion (talk) 19:46, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Re: Upload message

If you want to use an exclusive free license other than the GFDL, you must upload your files to the Wikimedia Commons.

Is this true? For example, is the uploading of public domain images to wikipedia prohibited? My understanding was that the following is true:

If you want to use an exclusive free license other than the GFDL, you are encouraged to upload your files to the Wikimedia Commons.

Lupin 19:53, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Public domain is ineligible for copyright status... I don't believe it can be re-licensed under the GFDL. -- AllyUnion (talk) 19:59, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

OK, but what about the non-GFDL free licenses which are allowed on the commons? Is uploading images under these licenses actually disallowed on en, or merely discouraged? Lupin 20:01, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

I put the text as: other than the GFDL or public domain. Fair use is permitted, but that small notice is against anyone who wants to exclusively use a free license such as the BSD License to license their images. -- AllyUnion (talk) 20:11, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm only correcting the wording. This what I figured out from WP:AN#Special:Upload message is wrong. If you have a problem with it, continue to discuss it at WP:AN or MediaWiki talk:Uploadtext. You may ask User:Rdsmith4 why he added that piece of small text in the first place. But I was attempting to make it clear. I believe the purpose is that you can upload anything with a free license so long as it can be licensed along with the GFDL. -- AllyUnion (talk) 22:41, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Furthermore, I think the message is silly but without a formal discussion, I'm not willing to remove it. The last thing we need is a revert war between Administrators. -- AllyUnion (talk) 22:42, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

Use of serial comma

Hi Lupin, I notice in the article on pennying you reverted an inserted serial comma (also known as an Oxford comma in the U.K.). According to Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Serial_commas the use of this style is optional - please try not to make this as the only change to a page. Kind regards, --NeilRickards 16:37, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Hm, so it's OK to insert the serial comma not remove it? Strange. Lupin 22:51, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

I posted the same to the user who inserted it and I didn't change the page. Just wanted to clarify for future reference. --NeilRickards 14:27, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

It's incorrect to say the Oxford comma is not British use. Few newpaper style guides in any country require it, but most academic ones do, including leading British ones such as Fowler's and the Oxford Univ. Press. NoAccount

Noted. My personal preference is still to avoid it, though. Lupin 22:17, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Schools

Please join the discussion at Wikipedia:Schools - this is an effort to reach consensus (or at least, compromise) through discussion, rather than voting. And it seems to be succeeding. Radiant_* 14:20, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

Vote request

Please cast your vote at Wikipedia_talk:Deletion_principles_poll#Straw poll: This set of polls is premature and will only be divisive. Thanks, Radiant_* 10:42, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

Your edits on Wikipedia:Schools/Deletion principles poll

You seem to be editing towards a vote on a non-issue. Only a tiny minority of people are going to agree to the proposition that no article of any type is never to be deleted. It's a silly idea.

I'm trying to work towards consensus. Could you try to help me by explaining your view on this? --Tony Sidaway|Talk 02:48, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

My view is first and foremost that a single user should not be able to unilaterally control the terms of poll. Moreover, I am opposed to the existence of this poll. However, since it seems that it is inexorably being pushed forwards, I have striven to edit the page to clarify the propositions (e.g. spell out the consequences for deletion that adopting particular proposition would be) and also add context (e.g. make it clear that the poll will not determine policy). Essentially, I have edited where I have seen ambiguity in an attempt to resolve it. I believe that this poll is fundamentally flawed if it is an attempt to create consensus, but that it is nevertheless possible to improve it (although it will remain fundamentally flawed). Lupin 03:01, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

• I noticed you changing the poll's starting date. I agree, but please note that Wikipedia:recentchanges still holds the old starting date. Radiant_* 14:03, May 23, 2005 (UTC)

Rama IX

No idea, sorry. Adam 22:49, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Deletion principles poll

I posted an explanation and link to Neutrality's poll in his user space. During the time I was creating it, it appears you had a quick edit war with Neutrality. Be sure not to miss my version in the history if it gets reverted again (but be careful, don't be baited into violating the 3 revert rule). I think the community deserves the explanation. --Unfocused 04:10, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for writing that nice explanation. I agree that an explanation is merited. Lupin 04:12, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Obviously, we both saw that administrators have extra powers that allow them to do an end-around on us normal users in the Wikipedia:Recentchanges page. Neutrality's gone and posted there to bypass the page entirely, going directly to his user space. Here's hoping that others share our concerns about his unilateral attitude. I seconded your request for a change on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard. Hope this whole series of strange incidents isn't stressing you. --Unfocused 07:05, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

The three revert rule applies to each page individually. Theoretically, I could revert every page twice three times and not break the letter of the policy. The fourth triggers the (virtually automatic) 24 hour ban. --Unfocused 14:39, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Caulfield Grammar FAC

As a user who loves their schools, I wanted to let you know about this current school FAC nomination. Please have a look and a vote. Thanks. Harro5 03:30, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

Image:Firearms.jpg for deletion

I have requested the deletion of commons:Image:Firearms.jpg because the source's terms of use are not free. Twinxor t 02:35, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Generation of New Maps

hey Lupin - firstly, great contributions with all those maps, thank you! Just wondering, are new maps created automatically? I see a number of French pages include FRdot maps, but if I attempt to add one to other pages (as I have to Fontenay-le-Comte) then the images are missing. Does your bot find this eventually?

I'm only confused since when I added a map to a few UK articles, the image just seemed to be there, and it all worked with me just adding the template.... UkPaolo 07:43, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• To UkPaolo: This is one of several reservations I have about the dotty maps. It is difficult, not to say impossible, to find a map for a nearby place. I have suggested names for the images based on geo coordinates but Lupin don't seem interested - perhaps if more people ask, he might do something. (He even gets confused himself by the naming system - see this diff.) -- RHaworth 08:25, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)

• Heh - you may find several errors like that - thanks for catching that one! I do check my work so they're generally caught, but this one must have slipped through the net. To speed up the editing, I have a script that cycles through the maps I've generated and puts the appropriate wikicode on the clipboard so that I can paste it in. Unfortunately it sometimes gets lagged on my poor old computer and I don't notice - if you look at Category:Towns in Shropshire then you'll see that the two articles involved here, Craven Arms and Ellesmere, are adjacent, which explains the mixup. So it's really a problem with my editing rather than my naming convention here. Lupin 12:14, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Hi UkPaolo. The maps are generated semiautomatically, but sadly not as automatically as I would like. The way it works is that I can feed my script a long list of placenames with geographic coordinates and it will then churn out the maps (fairly slowly). For UK places, I had a nice data set of coordinates and placenames which meant that I could generate maps for many towns in England without too much difficulty.

If you want to request a map, please let me know the place name and its geographic coordinates (latitude, longitude) and I'll try to make one for you. Better yet, if you have a nice list of French towns and longitude/latitude pairs then I could make a batch of them. Lupin 12:14, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I see! Must keep you busy! I was just writing out some data that I'd like included when I found this handy list: www.mapsofworld.com/lat_long/france-lat-long.html. Perhaps you could use this data to generate some maps? It was ones for Cherbourg-Octeville, Fontenay-le-Comte and Fontainebleau I was working on currently, all listed on that page. Thanks. UkPaolo 19:57, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

A big thank you for adding some of those maps so quickly! :o) Just one quick point - I'm not too sure about the accuracy of Image:Cherbourg_dot.png (the longitude/latitude may be wrong...) since Cherbourg is a port, on the coast, right at the top of the Cotentin peninsular. I've got Lat: 49:38:19N (49.6387), Lon: 1:36:51W (-1.6143) from MultiMap, maybe you could check this map if you get a chance? Thanks again for your hard work! UkPaolo 08:17, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Quite right - I didn't realise that the list you refer to above uses DMS rather than decimals, which was the source of error. I've adjusted the maps accordingly. (I actually used (-1.66667,49.65) for Cherbourg as this is what (-1:40, 49:39) works out as). Lupin 15:15, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Any chance of Bingley Lat: 53:50:57N (53.8492) Lon: 1:50:19W (-1.8385)? MGSpiller 01:08, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Turns out it was there all along at Image:Bingley - Bradford dot.png. Lupin 03:18, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Doh! Thanks anyway. MGSpiller 19:49, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hi I was hoping that I could have a GBdot made for two Locations. Sapiston, Suffolk TL917750 Lat=52.339571716510214 lon=0.8150292908405699 and Honington, Suffolk TL911746 Lat=52.336188955876175 lon=0.8060048419930048 thanks for the help! --UKPhoenix79 29 June 2005 03:40 (UTC)

User:RHaworth got there first. 2005 June 29 12:09 (UTC)

Image:Hammer_sickle.png

Image deletion warning

The image Image:Hammer_sickle.png has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. If you feel that this image should not be deleted, please go there to voice your opinion.

Zscout370 (Sound Off) 02:35, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Bryce Harrington

Hi -- Since you've worked on the Inkscape article, I thought you might be interested in the fact that the Bryce Harrington article is up for deletion.--Bcrowell 03:41, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

lots of edits, not an admin

Hi - I made a list of users who've been around long enough to have made lots of edits but aren't admins. If you're at all interested in becoming an admin, can you please add an '*' immediately before your name in this list? I've suggested folks nominating someone might want to puruse this list, although there is certainly no guarantee anyone will ever look at it. Thanks. -- Rick Block (talk) 18:19, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

Image for Korean name

I see you have created an image of the character "성" for Korean name, which is currently featured on the main page. As I've explained in the article discussion, this choice is confusing and not entirely suitable for the page. I've suggested that maybe using the word "이름"—"name"—as the image for the article might be more appropriate. Since the image is currently protected, I'm wondering if you can make the necessary changes. Thanks. --Iceager 00:28, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

External link

May I request that you replace your standard edit summary rant: "External link - no,no, no. external linkS. even if there's only one link. with the S. don't forget. very important. repeat after me: external linkS. external linkS. external linkS. external linkS" with a link to an item on one of your user pages that explains why you think it is so frightfully important always to have links? -- 80.189.34.111 01:20, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure that this would be useful, to be honest. Lupin 02:48, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Making edits to the "External links" heading is fine, but please do not bite the newcomers. You may wish to replace the rant with a link to the Wikipedia:External_links guidelines instead. --Alan Au 17:48, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've just encountered your 'rant' on my watchlist. I found it amusing, actually -- wasn't offended at all. The guideline page states: "If there is only one link, some editors use the header "External link", but others use "External links" in all cases." This implies that it is optional for articles with more than one article link. Personally, I think it's an error to refer to something in the plural when only a singular entry exists. There really is more taxing work to be done on wikipedia, but if you want to go on a crusade, that's fine. The JPS 23:27, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Meh. The purpose of this so-called "rant" is to draw attention to the widespread misuse of "External link" (often when there are several links) and hopefully convince others to avoid using "External link" in the future. I don't consider it biting newcomers in the least and it is intended to be taken in a spirit of good humour. If even edit summaries are now to be censored for fear of offending some hypothetical newcomers then wikipedia is in a sorry state indeed.... I am not really on a crusade, but this is one thing I look out for and fix when I see it. Lupin 02:19, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Okay, just keep in mind that there are suggested Wikipedia:Edit_summary guidelines. Sure, there are more important things to worry about than edit summaries, but imagine how annoying it would be if everyone pontificated in the edit summary field. ;) --Alan Au 04:10, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

GNU

announcement was 1983; project "began" in Jan 1984 (source: http://www.gnu.org/gnu/initial-announcement.html) - and attempt to correct dubious grammar in that sentence

Ok, wonderful, thanks for sourcing that. I was thrown by the fact that the GNU article claimed it was "launched" in 1983. Does that need editing? I do think "launched" might be a little strong for something that's only announced. --W(t) 02:58, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)

Image:Olive baboon.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Olive baboon.jpg. I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Until a more informative tag is provided, it will be listed as {{no source}} or {{no license}}. Could you add a better tag to let us know its source and/or copyright status? If you made the image yourself, an easy way to deal with this is add {{GFDL}} if you're willing to release it under the GFDL. Alternatively, you could release all rights to it by adding {{NoRightsReserved}}. This would allow anyone to do whatever they wish with your image, without exceptions. However, if it isn't your own image, you need to specify what free license it was distributed under. You can find a list of the tags here. If it was not distributed under a free license, but you claim fair use, add {{fairuse}} but you need to substantiate your claim by explaining why you think it's fair use. If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know where you got the images by posting to my talk page. If you do this, I can tag them for you. Thanks. RedWolf 05:20, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

Grid Ref

Thanks for that on Winchester couldn't figure it when I did the box.Alf 21:02, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

A map request

Hey there, I noticed you've made a lot of those location maps (such as Image:Guangzhou_dot.png), I was wondering if you would consider making one for this week's COTW, Lhasa, it would really improve the article I think. Regards, Joolz 10:33, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks :> -- Joolz 15:08, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Lancashire Rose

Hi The Lancashire Rose you display is upside down The point should be at the top

Corpus Christi Crest

Hi. What do you think of this version of Corpus's crest? Mlm42 21:24, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Looks good to me, but I'm no expert. If you have the blazon handy, that'd be good to add to the image page. Lupin 22:57, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

This is all I know, which is from here : Corpus Christi College in Cambridge was founded in 1351 by the two Guilds of Corpus Christi and the Blessed Virgin, and the arms confirmed to them at the Visitation of Cambridge in 1575 were a quarterly coat, first and fourth Gules a pelican in her piety upon a Nest containing three young all argent, and second and third Azure three Lilies argent. Coll. Arms MS. G.18, f. 59. Is that what you mean? Mlm42 23:38, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

That's the one! Lupin 01:00, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Image upload bot

Since you run the bot LupinBot, I am hoping you could help me.

I have a local version of mediawiki which I use to document. I also have a cacti running on a different machine which basically generates png images based on snmp data. I am interested in archiving the images generated to my local copy of mediawiki. Since I am into php, I can easily collect the png files to a location I desire in a regular basis. I need to automate the uploading of these files to my local copy of mediawiki. Framework for wikipediabot is written in python and I am no experience in it. Can you help me with this if possible, or suggest me an alternative? Thanks --Oblivious 06:06, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

I have no experience of local installations of mediawiki, but I can describe how I got my bot running. First I got a copy of pywikipediabot - I'm using an old copy but I think newer versions should work too. You have to create a file user-config.py as described in the documentation. The script I'm using is upload.py (part of pywikipediabot), which by default prompts the user for some information. I commented the lines containing

xxx=wikipedia.input

(put a # at the start of the line) and inserted lines saying

xxx=''

. Finally I wrote a shell script wrapper, which basically runs

cd $PYWIKIPEDIA_DIR; python upload.py "$file" "$uploadmessage"

where

$file

is an absolute pathname. Hope this helps! Lupin 13:40, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks --Oblivious 00:58, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

re: Image thumbnails in popups...

Looks fine to me, but then again I'm the last person to ask when it comes to image layout. What you could do is replicate this popup in the Sandbox and fiddle with the wiki image attributes until it looks right, and then copy the HTML it generates. Simple!

Only problem is the images are downloading from the fullsize version, but the thumbnails aren't stored until they're rendered inline, so that's not an option. Unless you can pre-empt insertion on the Sandbox and then draw the thumbnail from there, but that would be too laggy... hmmm... it would still work though... anyway, that's still a great little feature despite the delay. :) Garrett^Talk 22:19, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

That's a good idea for html generation. About the full size images: what I hope to do is check first to see if thumbnails of common sizes exist and then act accordingly. I don't know exactly how to do that yet, though, but I believe it should be possible. Lupin 22:22, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

popup.js -> context menu

Hey! Thanks for making your popup script -- it's really quite nice. I was wondering if you had/would consider making a modified version which offers those links in the context (right-click) menu, in a sub-menu? Thanks again. :) kmccoy (talk) 06:04, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Glad you like it! Yes, my original idea was to use a right-click menu. I think that would require a browser extension rather than javascript (I'd be please to be corrected on this point), and I currently have no idea how to write one of these. So... any offers? :-) Lupin 13:03, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

I've googled a little and I think it's possible to replace the context menu in javascript, but that's a bad idea IMO. Adding to it seems impossible. Lupin 13:17, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Advice on drawing graphs needed

Hi, If you can spare the time I would appreciate your help. I would like to create graphs like the complete graph on five verticies you made for Ramsey's theorem. You wrote that you created this graph using Inkscape, I’m having a lot of trouble working out how to draw graphs like you have done using this program. Could you give me any tips or perhaps direct me to any good pages on the net I might be able to use. I have noticed some other people have used gimp to make similar graphs have you used gimp to do this? Would you recommend it? I also have access to illustrator, would this be a good program to use?

Any help much appreciated

Thanks Greg321 20:16, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Popup javascript

Hey, I like your popup javascript a lot. Could you please make it work with Wiktionary also? --Phroziac (talk) 23:07, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

I think I've done it correctly, but images seem to be disabled so I haven't been able to test them. Let me know if you find any glitches! Installation is the same as before - add those lines to monobook.js on wiktionary. Lupin 00:50, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Cool, thanks! One thing though, edit count links on wiktionary and commons both do the lookup on "enwiki", aka en wikipedia. --Phroziac (talk) 17:54, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Great work on the script! One thing I noticed is that popups will stick on if I hover my mouse over a link and then move it away from the popup. Can this be remedied? Also, would it be possible for the popup to include the first sentence or two (or paragraph) of text from an article (only if the article is in the article namespace)? I forget what Wikipedia-duplicate site does this, but I found it useful; it would greatly aid a general reader in reading an article. -- BRIAN0918  01:32, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Other possibilities:

1. Don't load the popup if the link is clicked before the popup appears.
2. Close the popup if the link has been clicked.
3. Remove everything before the last slash in an article's name when it appears in the popup (so if I hover over User:Brian0918/monobook.js, all it shows in the popup is monobook.js)
4. Make "talk" and "article" bold, so they stand out.

   Thanks! -- BRIAN0918  01:53, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Not at all - these are all great suggestions. Thanks for helping out, too. The first few sentences business looks distinctly tricky at this time of night, though. Lupin 04:53, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

It looks like something got broken. When you hover over an IP, it says "Special:Contributions" and all their links have replaced "User:127.0.0.1" with "Special:Contributions". This only happens on RC or Watchlist pages, where the IP doesnt link to User: but to Special:Contributions. I think you have to have it parse the Special:Contributions URL to grab the actual name you're looking for. -- BRIAN0918  04:58, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Seems adding the email extraction broke stuff. Should be fixed now. Lupin 05:42, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Alright, it works now. Adding in the first sentences/paragraph will be the next big addition. I think if you do that, you should provide the option to turn off all the other downloading except for the first sentences/paragraph (ie have an option to turn simplePopups on but to also turn firstParagraph on). The paragraph wouldn't necessarily include Wikilinks, but just the stripped-down text (maybe the stripping-down is the hard part). If you were going to keep the Wikilinks, it would be an interesting option if the user could hover over any of the links in the first paragraph and another popup will load and show the first paragraph of that link too, and so on... but the simple text would probably be the way to start, and if you are able to or decide to add the other more complicated stuff later, it could be another option (ie: options for firstParagraph with either simple text or linked text). -- BRIAN0918  14:09, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Lower bandwidth option for navigation popups

Thanks! it's a wonderfull tool, and bandwidth was the only reason I turned it off. I'll add it back with the simplePopups option when I get back from backpacking next week. --Duk 13:20, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Dynamic signature

Markaci has this javascript code in his monobook that replaces the usual "--~~~~" that you get when you click the signature button with custom text. Is it possible for this generated text to include your edit count, so that each time you post, it lists your number of edits at the time of your post. Considering what you've already done with this popup, it seems like it should be possible, but I just don't know the syntax. Here's his code to make the signature:

// Signature fix.
function sigFix () {
document.getElementById("toolbar").innerHTML=document.getElementById("toolbar").innerHTML.replace('--~~' + '~~','CUSTOM_SIGNATURE_HERE');
}

function reformatMyPage() {
  sigFix();
}

if (window.addEventListener) window.addEventListener("load",reformatMyPage,false);
else if (window.attachEvent) window.attachEvent("onload",reformatMyPage);

Maybe that could even be implemented into your popup, so the number of edits are automatically listed for a user (would be turned off if simplePopups is on) -- BRIAN0918  14:40, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Sadly, I think not. JavaScript can only access data on the same webserver, and Kate's tool (which provides the edit count) is on a different webserver. Annoying, I know. I wanted to query Kate's tool and have 'x edits' instead of 'count' in the popup, but this seems impossible. If Kate's tool or an equivalent feature could be (quickly) accessed at some address on en.wikipedia.org, then there'd be hope. Lupin 14:53, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Would you be able to figure out how to do an edit count in the same way as kate's tool does, and just stick that code into your popups.js (or, for accessibility to others, into a separate .js)? Then if simplePopups is on, you can just provide a link to kate's tools as it is now. This might also allow you the option to display the number of edits that have been made to an article, though I'm not sure how useful that is... -- BRIAN0918  14:56, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

My guess is that Kate's tool submits a database query directly to the wikipedia servers. A Javascript tool can't do that; the alternative, parsing the contribs lists which can be spread out over many pages, would be prohibitive in terms of server load and very slow, judging by the time it takes for these pages appear. I'm able to get information into the popups relatively quickly by appending &action=raw to the ends of urls, which just gets the wikitext and doesn't stress the servers. Or I could use Special:Export - doing this could add features such as "last edited by ... at ...". But that's another story. This doesn't seem to work for contribs pages, and I wouldn't expect it to since they have to be generated dynamically. Lupin 15:19, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Formatting sig

Can you help me format my custom sig correctly. I'm trying to stick in different font colors, but again there's a syntax problem:

function sigFix () {
document.getElementById("toolbar").innerHTML=document.getElementById("toolbar").innerHTML.replace('--~~' + '~~','<small>[[User:Brian0918|\\\'\\\'\\\'BRIAN\\\'\\\'\\\']][[User_talk:Brian0918|0918]] {{subst' + ':CURRENTYEAR}}-{{subst' + ':CURRENTMONTHABBREV}}-{{subst' + ':CURRENTDAY}} {{subst' + ':CURRENTTIME}}</small>');
}

This works properly, but I want to add <font color="#000000"> </font> around the text for the user page link, and <font color="#555555"> </font> around the user talk page link. Note: the font code has to be inside the wikilink, not outside it. -- BRIAN0918  16:21, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Nevermind, I figured it out. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-08-7 17:05

Another possibility: If the link is to a category, the popup includes the number of articles in the category and the number of subcategories. ☞ BRIAN0918 • 2005-08-7 17:41

Again, would be nice, but that's a feature the server has to offer. Anything I can't get with action=raw or Special:Export is off the agenda until wikipedia's server improves significantly. Lupin 18:00, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

How about: allow a user to set something like "adminPowers = true", which will give options such as: hovering over a username allows you to click the "block" link in the popup, or hovering over an article/image name allows you to click the "protect" or "delete" links. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-08-7 20:21

I suppose that'd be nice.... for admins :P Most of what I know about accessing wikipedia's features through urls has been gleaned by observing what urls are used. Not being an admin, I don't know how to use admin features. You could try adding the features yourself, or give me a list of urls that I can use as models. Lupin 02:08, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Consider namespacing configuration settings for Navigation popups

Just a thought. ;-) — Ambush Commander^(Talk) 01:03, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

You mean making it effective only on certain namespaces? Good idea. Lupin 01:11, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Err... not exactly, actually, although that would be interesting too. I just meant a quick rename, like navPopup_delay so it doesn't accidently clobber other scripts a user may have. — Ambush Commander^(Talk) 01:44, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Navigation popup problems with Opera

I've encountered a number of problems with the navigation popup tool and Opera 8 for Linux:

• After showing for a few seconds, the popup expands with between one and five pages of mostly Chinese characters. I assume this is supposed to be a page preview.
• The popup always has a broken image link on the right side.
• The popup functionality appears to cause serious problems with clicking on "diff" and "cur" links in article history: the cursor may refuse to change from an arrow to a hand, clicking on a link may do nothing, clicking on a link may take several seconds to several minutes to register.
• Displaying a page history may cause the broswer to use 100% of available CPU time.

--Carnildo 05:30, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the report! I'm typing this in opera and just lost my previous reply due to some other different javascript functionality that opera does differently... so there's definitely something to work on here. The JavaScript console is silent for me though, I don't know if there's some way to turn it on or if it has nothing to say. The first two bugs I can definitely confirm and warrant further investigation. Lupin 13:03, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

OK, I see the main problem with Opera. It has what appears to me to be a bug, where it doesn't respect the gzip Content-Encoding of certain Content-Types. And I can't persuade wikipedia to send anything except gzip. I can see a fix for this, but it will take a while to implement. For now, I suggest that you add simplePopups=true; to your user javascript file. Lupin 15:24, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

I think the broken image bug is now fixed. Lupin 01:52, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Simple popups work just fine in Opera -- I expect most of the other bugs came from delays caused by downloading the page preview. Of course, now I've found another bug. This one depends on the focus-follows-mouse behaviour of most Linux window managers:

1. Have a window from another program open above the web browser, partially overlapping a link of some sort (an image works well)
2. Have the popup delay set to something reasonably high: several seconds or so
3. Move the mouse over the link
4. Before the popup appears, move the mouse to point at the other program
5. Watch the popup appear, even though Opera does not have focus anymore.

I don't expect this to be fixed. --Carnildo 07:18, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Navigation popup problems with Mozilla

Just trying Mozilla 1.7 for MacOS. The "simple popups" option doesn't seem to be working, and the popup delay doesn't always delay. Am I doing something wrong, or is this a bug?

// User:Lupin/popups.js - please include this line

document.write('<script type="text/javascript" src="'

+ 'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Lupin/popups.js'

+ '&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript&dontcountme=s"></script>');

simplePopups=true;

popupDelay=3;

--Carnildo 21:02, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Looks fine to me. Sadly I don't have a Mac so this will be hard for me to diagnose. Does clearing your cache or upgrading to the latest mozilla help? If you type javascript: in the address bar, a javascript console should come up. If you could restart mozilla, open up the javascript console and let me know about any errors that appear when you try to use the script, that'd probably be helpful.

Another thing you can try is to type this into the address bar after the page has loaded:

javascript:alert(simplePopups+'\n'+dsimplePopups)

If the first line doesn't say "true" then the variable is either not being set properly or something (possibly a bug in my script or some other stuff in your user javascript file) is resetting it. (The second should say false in mozilla, the default value of simplePopups. I've made it default to true in opera). Lupin 21:30, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

I've run the script on Mozilla 1.7.8 under linux it seems to work well. Lupin Lupin 21:50, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

simplePopups no longer works

In Mozilla Firefox on Windows XP. I have simplePopups on but it still displays the image, first paragraph, etc. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-08-9 02:36

OK, I'll see if I can reproduce and fix this. What happens if you type that javascript: command into firefox that I mention just above?

It says false even though I've changed nothing since I last used it yesterday. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-08-9 02:51

I'm not entirely sure why, but I seem to have fixed it. Lupin 03:47, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, that fixed it. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-08-9 03:54

Also, if you try hovering over Genetically modified food, it shows the categories, filesize, etc, but doesn't show the intro text. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-08-9 02:38

Please could you add such pages to this list? Thanks. User:Lupin/Pages with buggy previews Lupin 02:46, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Split up image/text/data preview

Would it be possible to split up all the different options (navigation links, text preview, image preview, summary data at the bottom), so that a user who has simplePopups off can choose to separately turn on/off any of these things? This would allow general readers to focus on reading (ie, no nav links, no image, no data summary), and anyone can customize however they want. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-08-9 04:02

Yes, I've had a go at this. Here are the options: User:Lupin/popupOptions I haven't tested it much at all, so some combinations of options may not work well together (or at all)... Lupin 05:45, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Re-using images in print

Hi, I'd like to use the passport image in a print publication (illustrating a citizenship course), but it's only licensed under GFDL, which is impractical. Any chance of a PD or Creative Commons dual-license?

No, but educational uses I approve of. I hereby grant you an exclusive non-transferable license to use this image for educational purposes. Lupin 13:01, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the exception. As it happens, somebody else took on this part of the job anyway, but it's the thought that counts :)

RFA?

Care for to be of adminship requested? — BRIAN0918 • 2005-08-15 19:28

Popup Script in Safari

well done on coding the popup script - very clever! Just thought I'd point out that it doesn't appear to work using the Safari web browser under Mac OS X... not sure if a simple fix would exist for this or not... UkPaolo 21:12, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

i'd certainly be willing to help try and solve the problem. It's weird tho... I did turn on debug and check the output previously... there doesn't appear to be any exceptions, and certainly no error messages. It's just that nothing happens when you mouseover a link in Safari, yet under Firefox it displays fine... not that there's any errors. Unfortunately I don't have any explanation for that. I've checked JavaScript on other pages, and even tried removing the popup window blocker... but nothing :o( UkPaolo 19:54, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

RFA

Well, too late now, I've nominated you for adminship. Please edit the proper section and include your acceptance of the nomination and your answers to the questions. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-08-16 15:59

Nav popup adulation and troubleshoot

Lupin, two things:

• Nav popups are AWESOME. omfg they're awesome.
• A question, I want to change the popup delay. Where exactly do I have to insert the code line into the Monobook page for that to work?

Thanks, man. Fernando Rizo T/C 04:41, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

RFA

You may want to give more detailed responses to your questions. Someone has already given one oppose, saying that you "didn't sound very convincing". — BRIAN0918 • 2005-08-17 17:57

Trinity Hall crest

Hello - is ti possible to procure the original inkscape version (vectorised) of the Trinity Hall Crest? Thanks. I can be reached on davidranc[A]hotmail.com

Sure. it's in this tarball which I uploaded a while ago.

Navigational popup script

Hey. I came your script through your request for adminship. I want to say the script is incredibly cool. That is a damn fine peace of work. And I hope that even if don't approve of your adminship because "you didn't write edit summaries, or answer certain questions with full enthusiasm" etc... I hope you'll still keep writing things like the navigational script. I, for one, really appreciate it! Cheers, Jacoplane 23:58, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

I second that. Amazing tool, keep up the fantastic work! -- Plutor 15:37, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Congratulations!

Congratulations! It's my pleasure to let you know that, consensus being reached, you are now an administrator. You should read the relevant policies and other pages linked to from the administrators' reading list before carrying out tasks like deletion, protection, banning users, and editing protected pages such as the Main Page. Most of what you do is easily reversible by other sysops, apart from page history merges and image deletion, so please be especially careful with those. You might find the new administrators' how-to guide helpful. Cheers! -- Cecropia | explains it all ® 16:15, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Navigational popups

ActiveX and link separators

Amazing, just amazing.

However, I have two minor questions.

1. Is is possible to use a different character to seperate the links?

The middle dot tends to become a hollow square. It may be just the way the default monobook font interacts with IE, but it would be nice to be able to choose a different character.

1. Do you know how to enable certain ActiveX objects, and for Wikipedia only?

Currently I have disabled all ActiveX, but apparently I need "Msxml2.XMLHTTP" or "Microsoft.XMLHTTP". Which one do you advise? By the way, would it be possible to show a message if the objects cannot be created? I couldn't figure out what was wrong without looking at the source file.

I hope you can answer my questions.

Cordially yours, Shinobu 00:11, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Hi, glad the script is useful. To address your questions:

1. yes, you can use a different character: set the variable popupNavLinkSeparator as described on Wikipedia:Tools. If you find

a nice one then please let me know and I'll make the default for IE.

1. I don't have access to a copy of IE (I am rather severely unix-bound) so please tell me what you have to do to get this working so that I can add it to the installation instructions! I'm afraid I don't know which ActiveX thing is better as I don't understand all that stuff really. Lupin 01:26, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the link to The Manual. I see it has lots more interesting options. As for the dot problem, the following works for me, both in IE and in Firefox:

popupNavLinkSeparator = ' · ';

Cordially yours, Shinobu 04:47, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

There seems to be a little flaw in the code. You see, I got the ActiveX working by assigning wikipedia.org to it's own security zone and activated safe for scripting ActiveX. That works, apart from the fact that the code breaks on the following line:

this.send = this.http.send;

Maybe because for ActiveX objects member functions are native, not JS, this line generates a "property does not exist"-error. Perhaps it is best to use a proxy in this case:

function httpProxySend(name)
{
    return this.http.send(name);
}

Assuming send returns anything that is. And use

this.send = httpProxySend;

in the case of an ActiveX. Maybe I'll toy around with it a bit and send you the solution if I get it working (if you want, that is). What do you use, a local copy on your own p.c., or have you got a scratch version somewhere else?

Cordially yours, Shinobu 06:34, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Please could you try using User:Lupin/popupsdev.js instead of User:Lupin/popups.js? I've made something like your suggested change regarding "proxy" functions. Lupin 02:17, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I'll check if it works; if it doesn't I'll try to toy around with a debugger. Actually being able to see on what line the script staggers and being able to look at variables, change them and continue, makes for easier problem fixing than having an other user execute it and asking "Does it work?". Shinobu 21:46, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

It works like magic. It doens't seem to have broken in Firefox either, always a good sign. I can only think of one minor improvement (very low priority though): a message of some kind in the case neither ActiveX nor standard HttpRequests can be created.

I would like to say again that it's an amazing script, and thanks for taking the trouble to make it work for me! Cordially yours, Shinobu 22:08, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Parensplit bug

I think there should be extra brackets in the following bit of code (I've coloured them red):

String.prototype.parenSplit=function (re) {
    var m=re.exec(this);
    if (!m) return [this];
    return [this.substring(0,m.index)]
        .concat(m.slice(1))
        .concat(this.substring(m.index+m[0].length).parenSplit(re));
};

If I understand this correctly this function should emulate split (only not broken).

The result of the split method is an array of strings split at each point where separator occurs in stringObj. The separator is not returned as part of any array element.

So if re is not matched, an array with a single element should be returned, not a string. Otherwise code that depends on the result being an array fails, crashing the script to the debugger.

As for the second part, given string "abcdefghi", re /def/ this would yield:

m[0] = "def"; m.index = 3;

return ["abc"].concat(["def"]).concat("ghi".parenSplit(/def/));

== return ["abc", "def", "ghi"]

Note that ordinary split on IE or Firefox would return ["abc", "ghi"]. But I assume returning "def" also is intentional, so that's okay - only the red brackets should be added.

Cordially yours, Shinobu 03:06, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, you're right. Thanks for finding this bug and providing the fix! I've put this and another fix to parenSplit in popupsdev.js and will transition it to popups.js if it proves to be stable. Lupin 14:32, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Redundant code in parenSplit?

for(var i=0; i<m.length; ++i) {
    if (typeof m[i]=='undefined') m[i]='';
}

This code might not be needed, since you're only using m[0] and m[0] is always a string: the re match.

Cordially yours, Shinobu 02:33, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

True - for my purposes at the moment, it doesn't do anything. But it does make parenSplit behave more like (exactly like?) the ECMA String.split function, and I don't think it imposes a huge performance hit (if you disagree then I'd be happy to take it out). Basically I added it so that I don't get bitten by differences between String.split and String.parenSplit in the future. Lupin 02:38, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, that makes a lot of sense. I should have thought of that.

// without this, we have 
// 'ab'.parenSplit(/a|(b)/) != 'ab'.split(/a|(b)/)

I've tested this, and it returns ["", "", "", "b", ""].

I've tested normal split with Firefox in JS1.2 mode, and it returns ["", "", "", "b"].

Either Firefox's JS1.2 is broken (while still returning the correct anser to your "abc".split(/(b)/) test) or you're not 100% there (although I wouldn't bother too much about that if it doesn't impact the rest of the script).

I have had the new script running for a while now, and it doesn't seem to crash any more. By the way, I'm working on a (small) watchlist tool. It's primary function is to show only the new edits since the tool was last run. Should I post it somewhere, or is this a) not useful to anyone but me or b) done before?

Cordially yours, Shinobu 04:05, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Interesting. My observations were that ["", "", "", "b", ""] is returned by both parenSplit and split in firefox. I don't know how to put firefox into js1.2 mode, though. Also I think that this is the correct result. The array is split in two places and the regex has one set of parens, so should have 3 elements (since it's split at two places) plus one element for each split point, and 3+2=5. In general, a string which is split at N places by a regex with n bracketed expressesions should yield and array with N+1 + Nn = N(n+1)+1 elements.

Your tool sounds interesting and useful. I would encourage you to post it. I don't know if it's been done before, but Wikipedia:Tools is a good place to check. Lupin 17:57, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

@correct result: I agree.

One source of the confusion is a difference between what Firefox claims to do in the docs, and what it does in reality.

docs: <1.2 → ["", "", ""]; >=1.2 → ["", "", "", "b", ""] assuming I read it correctly…

reality: <1.3 → ["", "", "", "b"]; >= 1.3 → ["", "", "", "b", ""]

Modern version uses 1.5 by default, I think, and your script doesn't specify a version, so it'll be allright. Shinobu 16:44, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Barnstar!

Here's a working man's barn star...for your uhm...work ;) --Phroziac ^(talk) 03:15, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! Lupin 22:35, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Night cap

I noticed you tagged, it under the verify tag. I afterwards put it under Template:Empty because little can be drawn from the article. I thought I should post it here in case you objected. Falphin 23:41, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Wikicities popups

I put the code you gave me in my javascript on RC wiki, but...the background on it is CLEAR! Heh, maybe you could fix that? By the way, please archive your talk. Additionally, I turned the admin features on, and I like it! :) --Phroziac ^(talk) 02:33, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, talk archival is a chore I had to get around to soon :) The transparent popup happens because monobook.js sets tables to transparent and the popups are essentially tables. If you remove or override that line (I did it in the object inspector in firefox to check but I don't know enough CSS to know how to remove the transparent declaration in my user CSS) then it should work. Lupin 02:55, 7 September 2005 (UTC)