Talk:Quietism (philosophy approach)

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Grand Ayatollah Sistani of Iraq[edit]

Moved to Talk:Quietism (philosophy)#Grand Ayatollah Sistani of Iraq

Grand Ayatollah Sistani of Iraq is a follower of the quietist school of thought, despite his indirect but decisive role in most major Iraqi political decisions. Then it is not quietism, is it? A "quietist," but with a covert, behind-the-scenes role in political decisions! A question remains: is this an honest misunderstanding of the meaning of Quietism, or is it a conscious manipulation of the meaning, in order to win a label that confers some perceived value or credibility? --Wetman 20:16, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

A good question. I think the distinction they are trying to make is between "turbans in the parliament" and clerics as leaders. Clearly Sistani is not going to actually take a position in the government, but he will lead from behind the scenes, even on major political issues. Whether or not he has an effective 'veto' of sorts amongst Iraqis hasn't really been tested yet. —thames 22:24, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Doubtless. This entry concerns Quietism, however. Perhaps the concept has not fully penetrated all our contributors. --Wetman 23:15, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Well, I'm not the one who labeled Sistani or the Iraqi Shia "quietists." This is, apparently, how they are regarded, and quietism's meaning in that context may differ slightly from the meaning applied to Christian/other quietists. I'd certainly be interested in any suggestions to improve the copy. —thames 14:38, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Fixed as follows: Sh'ia traditions of non-involvement in politics create anomalies in modern Muslim culture: Grand Ayatollah Sistani of Iraq identifies himself as a follower of the quietist school of thought, despite his indirect but decisive role in most major Iraqi political decisions. Authentic Sh'ia quietism deserves more thorough exploring in this entry. --Wetman 22:38, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Okay, that's a good compromise text. Thanks for working with me on that. thames 14:25, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Yes, and thanks! clear and fair is good enough! But this article lacks breadth and depth, and I'm too ignorant to provide it. --Wetman

Madame Guyon claimed sinless perfection?[edit]

Moved to Talk:Quietism (philosophy)#Madame Guyon claimed sinless perfection?
I did a lot of searching, and could not find any reliable claim that she actually "maintained that she could not sin, for sin was self, and she had rid herself of self". This quotation, which I found all over the Web, is a parroting of an undocumented statement from The Columbia Encyclopedia (http://www.bartleby.com/65/qu/quietism.html). Chitu 18:43, 13 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]