Talk:Kekkei genkai/Archive 1

Merged

This article or section should include material from byakugan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MeltBanana (talk • contribs) 14:01, 29 April 2005 (UTC)

Merged with byakugan and sharingan, I might do mangekyou sharingan if I have time -- Hobbeslover 19:31, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

someone get a new Mangekyo picture, this one's too big and it appears to be a normal eye. --151.200.31.48 17:26, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Done--JadziaLover 13:49, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Swastika

While the seal on Neji is a swastika (or manji, the japanese term), we might want to point out that it is a left faceing one, as opposed to the right faceing German one, and that it is a Buddhist religious symbol, not a Japanese (although many japanese people are Buddhist). according to the intro page in the Blade of the Immortal manga, it is associated with the moon and magic. --- Eds01 00:13, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

IIRC the whole "regular" vs. "inverted" swastika thing is an urban myth. --AceMyth 03:34, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

Yup, there's not really any difference between the right- and left-facing swastika. Although, after WWII, outside of India, almost no one uses the right-facing swasika anymore. See Swastika and Sauwastika for more info.

About mentioning it. I don't think that's nessecary. This page is about the Kekkei Genkai, not the Hyūga Juin Jutsu. If you want it mentioned, put it in here, in the Juin Jutsu entry on the Naruto Jutsu page.--JadziaLover 14:39, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

removal notice

In the fight Naruto and Sasuke had, Sasuke's sharingan evolved fully and I saw at one time that the lines which surround the tomoes (the comma like dots which surround the pupil of a Sharingan eye)almost mix with the dots. I am also guessing that Sasuke has also gained a new Sharingan similar to Kakashi's. I think that Sasuke got Kakashi's Sharingan because at that battle Sasuke opened his Sharingan using a hand seal. I think that Sasuke does not know about the new Sharingan he got by the trauma he got.

As far as I know, personal speculations and first person reports are not Wikipedia material. I'm deleting this for the time being. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.60.106.3 (talk • contribs) 17:27, 19 September 2005.

Kakashis mengekyo

Ah reading about Kakashis transplanted sharingan from obito, and his development of mengekyo, *without* killing his best friend, it occured that its possible he got mengekyo because obito was something of a friend to him, and obito died saving him, hence giving the effects of killing your best friend, or something along these lines. As i havent seen these episodes, i dont know for sure, and wont put it into the actual post, however if someone agrees with me and feels it is worth posting, please do. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.235.152.102 (talk • contribs) 14:57, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

This is just speculation, so it probably shouldn't be here. Not only that, but there are holes in this theory. First of all, Kakashi didn't give a damn about Obito when he died. Second of all, Kakashi has been feeling guilty about Obito's death for a long, long time, so why didn't he develop the Mangekyō before?

I think it's better to just wait until Kishimoto decides to enlighten us. --JadziaLover 17:28, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

why would you say kakashi didn't give a damn about obito? Of course he did, he was his teammate, and he gave up his life saving him. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Renegade78 (talk • contribs) 08:39, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I think he trained for the special shariagan not through killing your best friend —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.218.219.219 (talk • contribs) 00:37, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I was under the impression that he recieved it by focusing massive amounts of Chakra into his left eye. Or was that a speculatory theory? The Wretched 12:53, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I think there is alot of room where we can speculate, and come up with some good ideas regarding Kakashi's MS (Mangekyou). I personally have heard no less than two firm arguments regarding his acquisition.

1. It is possible, as stated above, that Kakashi feels responsible for Obito's death, in essence "killing" him, which gave him the POTENTIAL for gaining MS. No one ever said there was a time limit on the deaths, or gaining of the MS. As it is, Kakashi can barely use it and he is a strong ninja. Itachi in all his glory can only use a few moves at a time as it is. This explains why Kakashi just now gained the ability. This theory makes no mention as to the appearance of the MS.
2. Itachi just told Sasuke that the method of gaining MS is killing your best friend to make him a hardened, strong, ninja. Infact, it doesnt matter how you gain MS, and there are multiple methods. Kakashi clearly has not killed his best friend (Gai) between his fight with Zabuza and Deidara, and yet he unlocked the power of MS. His is different in appearance to Itachi's because he gained it in a different way. This theory is understandable, because of the sheer requirements of using, much less controlling MS (Large amounts of Chakra, focus, etc). It could even be said that no one gains the power of MS unless they seek it out, and given Kakashi's past experience with MS it is understandable that he would want to gain this power.

Stupid theories:

1. Kakashi gained it by seeing Itachi's MS. Simply the most stupid of theories.
2. Kakashi's MS is different from Itachi's because he is not of Uchiha blood.

I'm sure there's more, but these are all I can really think of off the top of my head. SlaserX 18:30, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

And it might b because obito might have killed his best friend before kakashi got it.--67.191.195.232 17:17, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Wait a moment... Who, where or when was it said that Guy is Kakashi's best friend?

they act like best freinds.

They may act like long time friends but never was it stated that they are best friends.

We dont know how close exactly Kakashi and Obito were before he died, but my assumtion is that after Obito gave Kakashi the eye he asked Kakashi to end his misery and kill him quickly instead of him dieing under the rock. This allowed Kakashi to get the MS.74.73.103.13 20:22, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm surprised that no-one else has noticed that Itachi uses Kakashi's Mangenkyo Sharingan in Naruto:Narutimate Hero Three, They called it Doujutsu Kyokujitsu(Pupil Technique: Rising Sun),. Also several people have noted that Itachi's Mangenkyo Sharingan changes slightly, depending on ether he's using Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu, meaning that it's possible for Kakashi do to both of those moves, theoretically.

On the apparent "limitations" of the Byakugan and the Sharingan

I have reworded this particular passage, especially the words in bold:

The potential advantage Byakugan can provide in battle lags severely behind the spectacular feats potentially achieved by possessors of the Sharingan (believed to be its genetic relative), but it is worth noting that while the different levels and vast multitude of abilities which can be activated via Sharingan have been almost (if not completely) exhausted it remains to be seen whether there is any more to the Byakugan than what has already been exposed.

into this (my amendments are in italics):

Although it seems that the potential advantage Byakugan can provide in battle lags behind the spectacular feats potentially achieved by possessors of the Sharingan (believed to be its genetic relative) because it cannot copy techniques that it sees, or hypnotize human targets, in terms of insight the former surpasses the latter [1] because it can "see" a lot of what the latter sees (and in some cases, see it better) as well as seeing a lot of what the Sharingan doesn't see. See below.

because the first passage appears to be worded in such a way that makes the Byakugan apparently inferior to the Sharingan by stating matter-of-factly that it "lags behind." In fact it has been stated within the series itself that the Byakugan, though admittedly not being able to copy techniques on-the-fly or hypnotize people, can "see" much better than the Sharingan, as stated by Kakashi himself. I have also deleted that last part about the Sharingan's abilities being almost (if not completely) exhausted in the series, since I feel that there isn't any evidence (internal or otherwise) for this. -- Gryphon Hall 16:23, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Additions

There should be an entry for Sakon/Ukon's kekkei genkai on this page, shouldn't there? Also I propose merging Naruto jutsu#Kekkei Genkai (Bloodline Limits) with this page ^^. I also think there should be mentions of the possible Kekkei genkai of Deidara and the Sandaime Kazekage. --JadziaLover 22:06, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Added Sakon/Ukon and Deidara, and the Kazekage. --Pentasyllabic 23:21, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

On the addition of Sakon/Ukon's Kekkei Genkai

I was always under the impression that their abilities were merely a side effect due to the Curse Seal. Obviously the Curse Seal physically alters the bearer's body, and I figured this was an alteration given to Sakon/Ukon. However, it's also apparent that the Curse Seal manipulates and strengthens one's existing abilities such as the addition of a bone-filled tail to Kimimaro. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I think some clarification of this issue should be made if evidence to do so exists. If not, maybe this issue should be addressed more fully in the Sakon/Ukon section. -- JesusFreakATX 06:53, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

The second databook clearly states that Sakon and Ukon's abilities (Tarenken, Tarenkyaku, Souma no Kou, Kisei Kikai) are Kekkei Genkai related jutsu.--JadziaLover 09:46, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Ah, thank you. I have not read the data books unfortunately. Do you know where I might obtain them? JesusFreakATX 06:46, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Shodai Hokage's abilities in ch291

Seeing as how Orochimaru duplicated Shodai Hokage's abilities through tinkering with genes, is this a possible bloodline, and if so, is it just the bijū control ability or also the mokuton jutsu? --Pentasyllabic 01:04, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm almost 100% certain that the Shodai's ability to do Mokuton Ninjutsu isn't a bloodline limit. First of all, the data book makes no mention of it, calling the jutsu he did a Hiden jutsu. Second, it's not a bloodline. It's limited to the Shodai, and none of his descendants have inherited the ability.

The same goes for the bijū control ability, although we have too little information to make a good judgement about that. --JadziaLover 10:17, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

"None of his descendants..." i.e. Tsunade. Good point. --Pentasyllabic 18:55, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

True, but as Hatake Kakashi said in the 316th manga chapter: "The ability to control two elements simultaneously and create a new element to manipulate... That's what's called a Kekkei genkai. You have atleast heard of the term, right? The boy Haku, you once fought had that too. He was able to use the bloodline limit of "Hyouton". He controlled two elements, "Wind" and "Water" to create "Ice". That's a special jutsu that can only be used by those born into a clan with a bloodline limit."

So, since the Wood release does combine two elements, it seems like a kekkei genkai --- Hackeru

But maybe there can be ninjas who can combinde two elements without birthright, but rater training. We have all seen Jounins use two elements one at the time, but maybe some can combinde them.88.206.159.226 12:46, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

We don't know if the Shodai's ability is a Kekkei genkai because Kekkei genkai are hereditary and from what we have seen, Tsunade, his granddaughter cannot use Mokuton techniques.74.73.103.13 20:27, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

You don't inherit all of your father's genes. Only half of them. So mabye the 1st's descendants (and his brother, the 2nd) just had the bad luck to not inherit the trait. 71.203.209.0 07:37, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

My theory on this is simply that transferring the genes to Yamato was simply so that it would be easier for him to learn the techniques by making him almost exactly like the first, in essence, giving him the same chakra. The techniques themselves are probably locked away in the vaults or whatever and Yamato was able to learn them by having the chakra of the creator in him. I would say it is Hiden, but a special one, because the first and second were exceptions to various rules. This would go the same for the demon controlling power. Yamato was able to do it after studying it and having the chakra of the creator of the technique to work with. So I think that would explain it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 146.151.39.168 (talk) 17:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

question

who do think would win in a fight in Naruto 2 Hinata or Neji —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.218.219.219 (talk • contribs) 00:20, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

While the question is speculation, all evidence points to Neji. Hinata and Neji have both had two and a half years to train, and while Neji has advanced to Jounin level Hinata is still at the Chunin level. 171.72.5.226 18:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

No offense, but I think that means nothing. Don't forget that Hinata has that technique she learned in the Bikōchu Arc (I haven't actually seen that arc, but it said in her article that it was powerful, so powerful that some cringed at Masashi for giving her such an overpowered move). Although it's a filler technique, it would create a big continuity issue if she hadn't learned it in the main story. Also, we still don't know what it takes for someone to be a Jōnin. Neji could've just been promoted for someting he did on a mission or for completing a certain amount or something. If she hasn't improved by now, then it would make her pretty useless as a fighter. All I'm saying is, don't count Hinata out yet... The Wretched 13:01, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Continuity issues? The only way the anime and manga would contradict each other is if Manga Hinata goes out and blatently says she knows no such technigue, which would be extremely random. Manga Hinata just won't use the move. And does Masashi Kishimoto really help write the anime? And people cringed that 'Masashi Kishimoto' gave her such a move? I don't think he's a writer for the anime. Bottom line, Hinata won't use that move again unless the writers for the anime decide to through it in during one of her future battles.

She's used it twice in the anime. As for the manga, they wouldn't hold back such a technique in a situation where it would be helpful. Of all the filler moves, I'd expect that move to be the one they carry over. Most of the other moves are useless in comparison. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 23:51, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Compare every Chunin to every Jounin introduced in the series, there's a huge class difference. Shes been promoted so clearly shes improved, and I dont doubt she'd put up a better fight. But fair odds Neji would win.--Master Shan 02:16, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

i second that.--67.191.195.232 17:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

confusion

Oh yeah another question to can Tsunade perform the Mokuton ninjutsu seeing as she's the granddaughter of the first Hokage —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.218.219.219 (talk • contribs) 00:24, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

No, only the Shodai and those with the same genetic make-up can perform Mokuton Ninjutsu.

～卍 JadziaLover ^{会話~投稿} 卐～ 05:36, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

inheritance

If Kakashi had a baby with somebody would the baby posess it as kekkai genkai and if this were true then would it be in both eyes —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.218.219.219 (talk • contribs) 00:33, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

No, Lamarck, that's not how it works. --69.113.106.92 04:43, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

No, the Sharingan was added unnaturally to Kakashi. As such, if he had any decendants, they wouldn't even inherit it in one eye. The Wretched 13:03, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Merger

The Naruto jutsu page contains a second set of (somewhat more basic) information about kekkei genkai, essentially creating two Bloodline limit pages. While it does have a link to the main Kekkei genkai (Naruto) page, I would suggest scanning the Naruto Jutsu's version for any information the Kekkei genkai page doesn't already have, and then deleting it and just leaving the link - what says anyone else? Phoenix1985 15:21, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

this is just my opinion but i think it should stay like tis,if anyone seconds phoenix 1985's opinion it's fine with me.--67.191.195.232 17:39, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Mangekyō Sharingan Illustration

Someone export this to a .gif so we can put it in the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Doomed Rasher (talk • contribs) 16:39, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

The article has images and we wouldn't be able to give a proper rationale for something we stole from PutFile. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 20:56, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I submitted the video and knows the source of it. Any way we can do so?--Doomed Rasher 22:53, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

The article has a much better image of the Mangekyō Sharingan already. Your animation is poor quality at best. There's no reason to add it. On top of that, making gifs requires software that you have to pay for. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 22:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

The poor quality animation is all SnagIt's fault anyway. So maybe we could add this to an external links section?

Why? It doesn't add anything. It's just a poor quality animation of an eye. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 00:59, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Inuzuka Clan

I was wondering, shouldn't the Inuzuka's extra sensitive nose, as well as their ability to communicate with canines be considered a kekkei genkai? --tensaryu July 11 // 12:15 PM

No. It's a skill accomplished with chakra molding. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 19:57, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Treasure Hunt Arc Kekkei Genkai

The ability of copying faces that is labeled as a Kekkei Genkai in the Treasure Hunt Arc should be added to the list, although it is not considered Canon. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Doomed Rasher (talk • contribs) .

That wasn't ever identified as a kekkei genkai, just a special talent of the clan. There's no evidence that it couldn't be learned by an outsider. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 16:55, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Mangekyo Sharingan Appearance

The article talks a lot about how Kakashi's Mangekyo Sharingan looks different from Itachi's, even speculating that this dojutsu's appearance may vary across users. Well, can't we also speculate that maybe Mangekyo Sharingan changes appearance depending on which jutsu is being used? We know what Itachi's eyes look like when using Tsukiyomi, but we've never seen his eyes during Amaterasu. What if Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu, and Kakashi's jutsu (Susanoo?) all have their own characteristic pupil appearances? --focoma 10:37, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

i wondered 4 a while 2 and i don't think it's whitch jutsu he's using

i think its what jutsu he can use.--67.191.195.232 17:25, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I dont like these connections between the justu Kakashi used and Amaterasu...It just seems like a stretch to connent Itachi and his MS's. Amaterasu's defining after-effect, black flames, dont in anyway appear after kakashi's attack..the jutsu is described as a warp in space-time...he's literaly removing objects from this plane of existence rather than destroying them with flames as hot as the sun. Anyway...while it is true that Amaterasu was sen off screen I think we have enough information to at least conclude that they are likely two different jutsu's rather than the same.--Master Shan 21:46, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Exactly. Of course they're different jutsus. My point is that Amaterasu might have its own unique pupil appearance. What I'm speculating is that each Mangekyo Sharingan jutsu appears differently, so Kakashi's Mangekyo Sharingan is the same Mangekyo Sharingan as Itachi's...just using a different justsu. --focoma 04:06, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I'm disputing the part in the article where it says that Kakashi's Mangekyo Sharingan is "a different version". I don't think it is. I think Itachi could also use Kakashi's space-warping jutsu (if he knew how Kakashi learned it), and while doing it, his eyes would look exactly like Kakashi's during his fight with Deidara. --focoma 07:48, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Itachi hasn't used Kakashi's space-warping MS, the end. There's nothing to dispute here. --Pentasyllabic 12:41, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, this theory makes a lot of sense. I believe what he means to say is that if Itachi were to use Kakashi's space-warping jutsu (although we know he doesn't) that his MS may look like Kakashi's. In other words, different MS justus have different appearances.

Haku's bloodline and continuity

Haku's kekkei genkai brings up one of the larger continuity issues in the series, though it is restricted to the movies. In Naruto the Movie: Snow Princess' Book of Ninja Arts, the three Snow ninja were all able to use some form of ice-based jutsu. Furthermore, Kakashi was able to copy one of their jutsu with his Sharingan. This could only mean that their ice-based jutsu wasn't kekkei genkai-based, yet it is explained in Part II that such techniques require the ability to mix chakra, which normal people can't do.

I have some objections to this this section, the foremost being that the movies aren't generally considered canon. But, if you want to speculate, there were only four Snow ninja (probably elite ninja too, having the power to stage a coup in the Snow Country), and thus not "normal people". (see also: retcon) --Pentasyllabic 22:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Good point. Only seemed prudent to include it after that whole explanation. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 23:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

The movies arent canon so it doesnt really matter, but my theory is that since it was so cold in the snow country, he used a water jutsu and it turned into ice.

It has been explained that Haku mixes wind and water chakra, thus making ice. It was his bloodline. --Benpercent 16:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Byakugan Vs. sharingan

which is stronger?--67.191.195.232 17:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

That is up for debate, both have specific advantages and disadvantages. You can't really say that one is ultimately better than the other. --.:Debil:. 01:37, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

New Picture

I uploaded a new picture of Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan, because the old one was weak, and the image was squished. Enjoy. --.:Debil:. 01:36, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

nice i could have drawn a pic better than the old one.--Geterdone 16:52, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

remove

i think we should remove the exploding clay from the blood line list it's a hidden art not a blood line.--Geterdone 17:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Akadō Yoroi

Why isn't anything included on Akadō Yoroi? Has the anime or manga confirmed that his chakra-stealing technique isn't a kekkei genkai? Because I distinctly remember back when it was first introduced that there was a flurry of discussion about it, and most of it seemed to point to the technique being a kekkei genkai. Someone mind clearing this up? Kakashi-sensei 05:26, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Jirobo had the same ability, so it's not blood-related. Just a skill. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 06:16, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Elemental mixes

As explained in a recent chapter by Kakashi, kekkei genkai rely on elemental mixes. I want to edit this article to add the confirmed elemental mixes and add kakashi's speech to the top. ok? Nomingo 19:31, 26 Aug 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it's necessary since the Hyoton and Mokuton entries already mention what types they mix, unless there are other known mixes? --Pentasyllabic 17:06, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

You misunderstand Kakashi. He said Haku and Yamato rely on such mixes. The Sharingan, Byakugan, etc, do not rely on such mixes to operate. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 00:43, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Could sand be considered mixing earth and air elements?

That's using wind element to control sand, not a mix. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 22:07, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

We should get a better Picture for Itachi's MS

You can't really see the pupils or what it looks like in the colored picture because of the shadows, we might want to replace it with a Manga picture instead, cause a black and White eye is easier to see then the Red and Black we are seeing now. Plus the eye isn't even in center fold in that picture.

I don't really mean to argue,but I think that the pictures are just fine.Zachary crimsonwolf 12:59, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Amaterasu

What exactly does Amaterasu do?

Try clicking the link. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 20:59, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Wow!! Someguy,you really know a lot bout Naruto,and I've seen your contributions. You are my idol !!! accept me,man!!Zachary crimsonwolf 13:01, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Biju control

can Tenzo (yamato)realy "control biju" i thuoght he just reversed the transformation.

Same genes, same ability. Also, the ability to suppress the Kyubi is controlling it, since he's making it do something against its will. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 00:04, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Kurama clan's kekkei genkai

Should the Kurama clan's kekkei genkai really be under possible kekkei genkai i mean it was in the show and they did say they had a kekkei genkai. Im just saying it should be switchedHoshigaki Kisame 20:46, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

We cannot decide to add the kurama clan's powerful genjutsu in the page yet because it is not yet clear is the kurama clan's ability is a kekkei genkai. and here are my reasons: 1. it is a powerful genjutsu (illusion technique) but other than being powerful there is nothing "unique" to it that makes it impossible to copy (such as the byukigan). 2. The episodes where the kurama clan appeared was in the anime filler arc. this is a big blow since many mechanics of the anime do not follow the manga (which are considered cannonical). One interesting example to this is naruto throwing or shooting his rasenagen (see the section of the rasenagen for this flaw because it is very long).

The anime said it was a kekkei genkai, hence it's going to be mentioned. In any case, the power to have illusions cause tangible effects is quite unique. Besides, why are you commenting on months-old topics? There's little point. And sign your posts with four tildes. Sephiroth BCR 02:19, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Filler Kekkai Genkai's

Shouldn't someone make a place for the filler kekkai genkai's to be under, to help people not get confused and that they are only in the anime and not really considered canon. It's not too important since there's only two, but im just pointing this out.

It's not up to us to decide what's canon and what isn't. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 19:08, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I would point out that they're not necessarily saying it's not canon, so much as pointing out the fact that when there are differences in two existing works and one is an adaptation of the other (generally with little/no input from the original author) it is considered that the adaptation is not strictly canon. By differentiating between the kekkei genkai forms that are strictly canon, which is to say from the manga, and the ones that are not STRICTLY canon, or from the anime, may confer some benefit unto people that are coming here for enlightenment. As they mentioned, it's not terribly important, as there is basically nothing present in the two from the anime that strictly contradicts anything from the manga, there could come a point where an impasse is reached, and by separating them now, it would provide a simple explanation resolving that as well as just create a nice breakdown between the manga originating and anime originating moves, which will be helpful in the future when/if more anime-exclusive KGs are added, if it's difficult to accept a canon/noncanon comparison. 192.251.125.85 10:08, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Naruto's clan

Naruto having a demon inside him can't really be considered a clan technique as someone learns such from other members of that clan, which Naruto doesn't have.

What are you talking about, no one said anything about Naruto in a clan and it's not in the articles.

Then why is he used in the notes section?

Naruto is used as an example of what a kekkei genkai is not. Try reading it. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 20:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

First, I'd like to apologize and say that now I've read the article more carefully. Second, having a demon doesn't give the person specialized techniques, merely an increse in strength and chakra, though they could make such techniques from those increases. Third, I thought that the article would give an example of a clan's specialized technique.

Sharingan

Is the sharingan able to tell the difference between types of jutsu. I mean like being able to tell if one jutsu is an earth type while another is lightning and stuff like that. I was just wondering because of when Kakashi found out Kakuzu was using an earth jutsu, and was wondering if that was either the sharingan or just him using the sharingan to see the jutsu and then he deduced what it was because of being quite knowledgeable.

That's Kakashi's own knowledge. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 00:12, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I just reread it so never mind.

I have a sharingan question. Can the sharingan copy clan techniques because i don't see why it shouldn't.74.73.103.13 23:01, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Presumably, as long it's Hiden rank. Kekkei genkai is impossible to copy.Jacce 14:13, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Aburame Clan Kekkei genkai

This page doesn't have anything in it about Aburame Shino being a bug master. In the Chunin Exams it says that it's a clan trait. A pretty cool one (though definitely grosser than most). Why hasn't anyone added anything about it to this page? I'd do it, but I don't think I know everything about it. I've only seen up through episode 75 so far, and I haven't read any of the manga. --63.239.240.1 21:00, 15 December 2006 (UTC)bretterson.brett@gmail.com

Check the notes. Their ability to control bugs is not a kekkei genkai. They merely make themselves into a hive and control the bugs through chakra. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 21:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Question on Sharingan

So does the sharingan actually let the user use any element? Since it can copy mostly any jutsu I'm sure that it allows them to manipulate all the elements. If not then this whole new nature manipulation is confusing. Oontzah 04:07, 10 January 2007 (UTC)Oontzah

It only lets the user use those jutsu they have the ability to perform. One must know how to perform water/fire/etc. jutsu to properly copy such things. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 04:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Mangekyou Sharingan

Everybody's been saying that Kakashi has his own varient of the MS. Now this is just a theroy, but, Couldn't it be that the Mangekyou Sharingan's "requirement" and development differs amoung the users? We've only seen two different versions on only two different people. 74.234.57.43 15:30, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

dosen't Ino's abilities to enter others peoples bodys count as a kekkei genkai?

I mean if you think about it only her and her dad do things like that, she should be invluded in this shoulden't she? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.190.133.20 (talk) 19:23, 8 February 2007 (UTC).

Some clans has developt some special characteristic technique, like Ino and the mind jutsu, but they are not genetic, like the kekkei genkai, so thats why they are called Hiden, because nobody outside the clan knows them.Jacce 06:49, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Nara Clan Shadow abilities

Is Shikamaru's abilities clan related, or are they a Kekkei Genkai? Sorry if we talked about this, but I don't have the databooks to check. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.119.225.61 (talk) 14:59, 10 February 2007 (UTC).

It's clan related.Jacce 15:12, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

There are two types of blood related jutsu. There is the clan jutsu, like the Nara clan jutsu or the Yamanaka clan jutsu which are teachable to anyone in naruto. Then there is other clan related jutsu like the dojutsu type(i.e. sharingan, byakugan) that are not copyable. Thus far Nara clan jutsu and Yamanaka clan jutsu are not kekkei genkai. Orochimaru12 17:57, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Hiden

I was just wondering, should we put Hiden's immortality ability under possible kekkei genkai? It seemed to be connected to his body, as it didn't ever run out, even after he was completely blown to pieces.Lascoden 04:51, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Not clear what causes it. Could be a technique of some sort. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 22:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I think it shouldnt be put under Kekkei Genkai because you cant pass down immortality through your genes. Or else all of Hidan's family would be alive and known. Orochimaru12 07:05, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Who ever added the Hidan section should really improve the article fluency if it is going to stay. 8:24 1 March 2007

Iron Sand

Would the iron sand be the same as the Wood based moves that the First Hokage pulls out? Rocks Lotus 13:46, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't really understand the question. The same in what sense? Both are jutsu used by Kages, one is definitely a Kekkei Genkai and the other is probably a kekkei genkai. Retlor 15:58, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry i ment the same as Yamanto pulls out not a blood line just a move that only the third kazakage can use. Rocks Lotus 09:45, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Yamantos moves is definitely Kekkei Genkai, Thirds is probably Kekkei genkaiJacce 15:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Sasuke's Mangekyo Sharingan

In the manga, it is apparent now that Sasuke has obtained a Mangekyo Sharingan (which he used to apparently kill/defeat Orichimaru). Shouldn't There be an article entailing his Mangekyo? He's obviously got it, and through some means that didn't involve killing his best friend (unless he was under the assumption that he had killed Naruto in their last encounter, which I'm sure he isn't). So there are now three Mangekyo users, Sasuke's being identical to Itachi's in ability (I.E. illusion dimension powers). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.184.104.75 (talk) 07:21, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

I dont think its right to assume that Sasuke's Sharingan is MS the only differince is a Circle conecting the dots. Remember "Assuption's are the mother of all fuck ups" Rocks Lotus 09:29, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Obvious? Seems speculative to me. And lots of characters can cast illusions without the Mangekyo. 71.203.209.0 05:26, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

All the Sharingans have the circle. To me it seems that while Sasuke defeated Orochimaru his the circle was much more defined, that could be due to the drawing. Pyromaniac589 10:28, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Possible Kekkei Genkai

This section has to go. It is pure original research, as neither ability has been officially stated to be Kekkei genkai. You have as good a chance as saying any other single-person jutsu whose rank has not been given in the databooks (Hidan's immortality, Kazuku's hearts, etc) is a Kekkei Genkai. I'm deleting the section entirely. You Can't See Me! 01:47, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I see that my edits have been reverted twice by now. So I ask, why bother keeping this? Look in the text itself:

===Exploding Clay===

Deidara possesses mouths in the palms of his hands, which can chew up clay and sculpt it into a number of artistic, and usually explosive, forms, thus the name "exploding clay". Deidara can create clay and make the clay explode by saying "Katsu" (喝, "Katsu"?). It's not known if this is a kekkei genkai, or merely a secret technique akin to Kidomaru's six arms.

Iron Sand

The Third Kazekage had a special genetic trait that allowed him to turn the chakra he molded into magnetic forces. This ability allowed him to create his Iron Sand, based on the jutsu used by the previous host of Shukaku. This ability was "inherited," and likely made more deadly through the addition of poison, by Sasori in his Kazekage puppet. It is unknown if this was a kekkei genkai, or wholly unique to the Third, similar to the First Hokage's ability to perform Mokuton jutsu.

As far as I'm concerned, that doesn't cut it. It's speculation. You'd be doing the same thing by adding a sentence under Fourth Hokage saying, "It is unclear if this is Naruto's father, or if the similarities between the two are pure coincidence." If my eyes aren't playing tricks on me, you get rid of those kinds of additions. This article is about kekkei genkai, not abilities that may or may not be kekkei genkai. You Can't See Me! 07:00, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Any commentary can be applied under the respective jutsu article. Sephiroth BCR 23:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Mokuton

Why has mokuton been added? Tsunade is decended from the 1st and does not have the ability, therefore it is not a bloodline. It is a unique jutsu. It is just as how Chidori and Rasengan are not bloodlines, even though they are only known to a few. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.91.155.164 (talk) 19:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC).

Because Kakashi calls it that in the mange. Issue settled. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 20:10, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Just because something is in the bloodline doesn't mean every descendant will inherit it. A person gets only half of each parent's genes, meaning there's no guarantee that a given trait will be passed down. Tsunade apparently is as unlucky in the genetic lottery as she is in actual gambling. 71.203.209.0 05:28, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Then what his brother second Hokage and Tsunade's brother Nawaki what about them is the First the only member of his clan that can use there Kekkei Genkai. user thedarklonewolf 4:50, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Kimimaro was the only person in his clan who could control his bones. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 21:54, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

If that is so then why did Kimimaro tell Garra that it was his CLANS power and now because he was the only member of his clan left that it only now only his. user:thedarklonewolf 6:23PM 15 April 2007

Because it was his clan's power, simply a rare one. No one else could do what he could, because the trait wasn't inherited by them. Same with Mokuton. Regardless of what arguments you make to the contrary, manga says it's a kekkei genkai. Manga knows best. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:49, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore, I don't believe that the Second is related to the First at all. And, there is no proof that Tsunade and Nawaki can't use Mokuton. They may have the ability to use it but choose not to hone it. For instance, Tsunade may have forsaken it in the pursuit of medical training. Actually, we don't even know what Nawaki's fighting style was; for all we know, he might have gotten mutilated and disfigured from falling out of his own tree into a pile of kunai and shuriken. You Can't See Me! 09:08, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

It has been stated multiple times that the First and Second Hokage were brothers. It's a fact they are related. Also, Mokuton has been stated to be unique to the First. Only someone with the same genetic make-up as the First can use it. That's why Orochimaru needed the First's genes to alter Yamato and couldn't use Tsunade's or Nawaki's genes. If either Tsunade or Nawaki was able to use it, Mokuton wouldn't have been considered unique to the First. This all doesn't make the Mokuton any less a Kekkei Genkai. However, since the databooks state that the First's Mokuton jutsu is a Hiden jutsu and not a Kekkei Genkai, it might be that Mokuton has somewhate of a dual status. Technically a Kekkei Genkai, but considered a Hiden Jutsu, since only one person could use it.

About Kimimaro, it has never been said that he was the only one in his clan who could control bones. It was said that Kimimaro was the last survivor of his clan, but it's heavily implied that his Kekkei Genkai was found in (many) more of his late clan's members.--JadziaLover 18:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh. I can't believe I never caught on to those brotherly references between the First and Second. *forehead slap*

In any case, you've just prooved that Mokuton is a Bloodline Trait - It requires You-Know-Who's genes. That's what we've been saying. As for it being called a Hiden Jutsu, I suppose that may have been a specific Mokuton technique, such as Haku's Thousand Flying Water Needles. Although it is a jutsu directly invoked by Haku's ice and water manipulation, it is still considered a B-Rank ninjutsu.

And, out of stubbornness, I stand by my statement that Tsunade and Nawaki (and now, the Second) could be capable of Mokuton, but either couldn't figure out how to use it or decided against it. For example, water-elemental chakra is one of the two main components, and Water-elemental jutsu was the Second's specialty. Second might have instead honed only his Water chakra and not his Earth chakra, resulting in his aformentioned specialty. Tsunade and Nawaki may simply have not been taught how to use Mokuton or decided to go with a different fighting style, hence why the First is the only one known to use it. You Can't See Me! 02:02, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

In the end, however, the manga and anime directly point to Mokuton being a specific trait of the First. If Tsunade was capable of using Mokuton techniques, then given its effectiveness in combat (see Yamato's exploits) would have made her utilize some aspects of it. That she did not learn it or some other factor seems odd, especially in light of the resources available to her due to her status, as well as her skill making learning both earth and water-based manipulation possible. If Jonin-level ninja are capable of at least two different elements, then it seems entirely possible that a S-class ninja could do so as well, or even to a higher degree. In any case, see the conversation between Yamato, Kakashi, Jiraiya, and Tsunade, in which Yamato is directly pointed out to be the only person that can supress Naruto's demon fox form, as only he has inherited the First's genes in their entirety. Sephiroth BCR 02:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Or it could just be that the First developed Mokuton after the birth of Tsunade's mother/father, explaining why neither the Second, Tsunade, or Nawaki have been shown to to be able to use the ability. This, as is any other theory on the matter, is speculation. ~SnapperTo 02:44, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Indeed it is speculation, as is my theory. Why was I arguing, aside from stubbornness? Who knows? My apologies, people. You Can't See Me! 03:05, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think you can simply 'develop' a Kekkei Genkai. I think you have to be born with it...

And just to be nitpicky, Haku's Thousand Flying Water Needles of Death has nothing to do with his Kekkei Genkai. It has a rank because it's a simple jounin-level Suiton technique. --JadziaLover 05:32, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Someone needs to begin/develop/perfect/whatever a kekkei genkai, or else there'd be nothing to pass from one generation to the next. ~SnapperTo 21:12, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I think Kekkei Gennkais are thing that you learn naturally in one way or another. Example Haku, Kimimaro, Ranmaru, and Yamato learned theirs naturally without any training and LATER with training profited them. Well as the Hyuga clan and the Uchiha clans learn there’s by going though life and death experiences. and some on and so forth. Comments anyone. user:thedarklonewolf 4:34 P:M April 19 2007 (UTC)

Jugo

Shouldnt Jugo's power be classified as a Kekkei Genkai. I mean it did say it was because of his blood. Just a suggestion 72.76.247.177 03:47, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

There's a difference between being in one's blood and being in one's genes. Granted, the word "blood" is thrown around a lot in the context of "genes," but that's not a guarantee. For all we know, Jugo's ability may be floating around in his bloodstream, not programmed into his bloodline. Think "disease," sort of like mutant-ninja-AIDS. You Can't See Me! 09:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Souma no Kou

Because I have no way of entering kanji other than going through other articles in search of the same kanji, could someone add the kanji to Souma no Kou's entry? Also, shouldn't the ability's name go from "Souma no Kou" → "Sōma no Kō" → "Soma no Ko"? ~SnapperTo 02:08, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Point to Snapper2. Game, Set, Match. You Can't See Me! 09:12, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Byakugan, Sharingan and Genjutsu

I've been reading about the Byakugan and the Sharingan, and I read that the Sharingan can see through Genjutsu, but there was nothing about it in the Byakugan section. I'm experiencing a backwards effect here. At a Naruto site (can't remember which one), I read there that the Byakugan can see throught Genjutsu, but It didn't say that the Sharingan could. Which is true, and where is it found? 74.167.170.215 23:01, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Byakugan's never demonstrated any such ability. Sharingan has. Itachi quite easily sees though Kurenai's genjutsu. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:05, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

RE: Byakugan seeing through Genjutsu, it's probably an assumption made because the Byakugan can distinguish normal Clones from Shadow Clones, though this is a function of being able to see the Chakra circulation within a person and not necessarily seeing through Genjustu. Cheers, Lankybugger ○ Yell ○ 18:48, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Why was the Mangekyo Sharingan was not shown in America

Like the title seggusts I am wonder why the Mangekyo Sharingan was not shown America. It does not look like any religious symbol or any thing like that. What the hell @#$*%. user:thedarklonewolf 12:01 am, April 22 2007 (UTC)

Hate to point out the obvious, but the actual form of it is not shown for some time. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 05:06, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

You don't get to see what it looks like until Sasuke's flashbacks in Naruto vs. Sasuke. You Can't See Me! 22:24, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Sharingan form

What about the sharingan that sasuke's evolves into that looks like a three bladed shuriken? It comes just as he is about to use Flapping Chidori on naruto while naruto uses rasengan. I know it'll be speculation, But there should be something on it.---As said on this site, <i>The wii version will Have wii compatibility 17:11, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Are you referring to third tomoe that he gains during his fight with Naruto, or the random showing of Itachi prior to the scene in question? ~SnapperTo 20:16, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Um, no, I am reffering to the sharingan that briefly forms on sasukes eyes. The circle in the center is not big enough to be the mangekyo. This.Right here.---As said on this site, <i>The wii version will Have wii compatibility. And yes, I am putnamehere3145 17:11, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

An actual screenshot would be more helpful, not a recreation of its appearance. ~SnapperTo 03:39, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Couldn't find one. V_V---As said on this site, <i>The wii version will Have wii compatibility 04:02, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

So in other words you're just making it up or merely aren't paying close enough attention. There's no such thing. End of story. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 04:09, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

It was also in the first cutscene on naruto shippuden:Narutimate accel. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Putnamehere3145 (talk • contribs) 04:16, 28 April 2007 (UTC).

No, it wasn't. There is no such thing. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 04:48, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I hate to argue. search for naruto ending 16 and look at the 4th sharingan form. that is all. I am done arguing. Sorry for your time.---As said on this site, <i>The wii version will Have wii compatibility 06:03, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Not there, either. You are making it up. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 06:15, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I've heard of it too. It's pretty popular, but he didn't make it up. If anyone still cares, I could thy and find a pic of what it looks like. 74.167.170.215 16:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

another example of it. 72.24.191.233 23:41, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

That's fan-art. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I have read the manga and watched the anime closely, there is no 3 bladed sharingan. Someone probably made it up. Pyromaniac589 10:34, 8 August 2007 (UTC)