Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ghadeer Jaber Mkheemar (0th nomination)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was - kept

Ghadeer Jaber Mkheemar[edit]

Non-notable, 18 Google hits, many from this WP article: a Palestinian girl tragically killed by a stray bullet. Even though the Israel Defense Forces#The Code of Conduct explicitly prohibits targeting non-combatants, the article is written specifically to demonize Israel (conveniently providing links such as State Terrorism) and incite hatred. Instead of fighting the intentional killing of civilians, articles like this work against peaceful future for both Palestinian and Israeli children. ←Humus sapiens←Talk 08:58, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Revoking the non-notability reason. Regarding the stray bullet, I am curious, are we now going to have an article for every stray bullet victim? What a shame. ←Humus sapiens←Talk 10:35, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Humus, you know no one is saying that. The soldiers fired on the school. The "stray bullet" was aimed at the school. That is why this girl has, tragically, achieved a measure of notability. By all means, incorporate your POV in the article. Wikipedia shouldn't take a standpoint, you're right, and you have every right to express that. Quote official sources that say it was an accident with a stray bullet, if they exist. Put in the facts. I would help you defend your point even though I don't share your POV. But don't try to scrub it out to make your point.Dr Zen 10:58, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The rest of this discussion is at User_talk:Humus_sapiens#Disagreement.3F ←Humus sapiens←Talk 11:19, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Can't see why anyone would want this removed. - Xed 09:01, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. I can. A merge with a more complete article would also be acceptable, since there's little to say here. —No-One Jones (m) 09:03, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Having been convinced by those who argued in favour of articles for victims of 9/11, I vote to keep this one. A notable victim of terrorism.Dr Zen 09:09, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Victims are not notable. Incidents are. Write about the incidents, not the victims. --Improv 16:54, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    Does that mean you support putting all these incidents into an article like Israeli violence against Palestinian children?--Alberuni 21:33, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    No, but I would support putting all the separate incidents, if notable, into their own articles. Perhaps they could be tied together with a category, appropriately named. The mentioning of children, which as far as I understand is not a particular focus among even the most extreme hawks in Israel, is inflammatory and not called for. Of course, the same for all of this should go for Palestinian violence against Israelis. --Improv 19:34, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • I agree with Improv on this one. The article should discuss the incident, not focus on the individual victim. Perhaps that could be accomplished by a simple page-move to a different title about the incident? By the way, we ultimately decided not to keep articles for each victim of 9/11. They have generally been moved over to Wikimemorial. Rossami (talk) 17:11, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • What next; will someone go to this [1] site and create over 1,000 new articles, each listing the name of a victim, and a paltry few details about their lives and deaths (if any), and accompanied by provocative "See also" sections designed to create a POV? People should stop using Wikipedia as a tool for their propaganda wars. By the way, I'm deliberately not voting in my comment here, but rather expressing my disgust with the blatant attempts to create Wikipedia articles purely for the purposes of propaganda. Jayjg 17:35, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Clearly we cannot have an article on every terror victim, but this person may meet standards for notability. On this vote I abstain. --L33tminion | (talk) 19:03, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)
  • Merge and redirect: I do think this victim stands out, but we have clear precedent set that victims, even those who are rallying points for popular movements, are better discussed in the context of the effect on the world had. I.e. the incident or the general topic should be discussed, but not every victim. The reasons are multiple for this. I agree that there are exceptions, like Amadou Dialu (not sure of the spelling) or Rodney King, so I'm not very firm in deletion in this case, but part of what makes those two cases worthy is that they are isolated. There is no general "brutality of the NYC/LA cops" article in which to discuss them. Unfortunately, the killing of civilians in Israel has been happening. The biggest problem is the merge and redirect location. All of the articles are riven with POV and edit warring. Geogre 19:46, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Non-notable individual. Wikipedia is a general-purpose encyclopedia, not a memorial site to "victims" of "terrorism". Those who wish to create articles for every "victim" of every "terrorist act" are welcome to register victimpedia.org and place the content there. Deletionist 21:23, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. The fact that the VfD nominator for this article is attempting to promote Zionist revisionist propaganda that Ghadeer Mkheemer was killed by a "stray bullet" indicates why there is a need for objective information about Israeli atrocities. --Alberuni 21:30, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete Normally, I would say "Keep" to this kind of article. But, after doing a google search to verify the claims of HS, I found that only 4 of those google hits were NOT from wikipedia (or a site that copies from it)--Josiah 23:19, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • I changed my choice to Keep after seeing that alternate spellings did return google results, so Wikipedia is not the originating article for this.--Josiah 04:18, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep it. [[User:Radman1|RaD Man (talk)]] 23:23, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. HS has retracted the charge of non-notability, which as far as I can see leaves only the fact that the incident reflects badly on Israel, and the unproven claim that it was a stray bullet, as "reasons" for deletion. - Mustafaa 01:03, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep DCEdwards1966 03:00, Nov 20, 2004 (UTC)
  • Merge and redirect. — A.M. 03:38, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete or merge. I agree with Improv. -- WOT 17:27, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Tragic but non-notable. Gamaliel 18:14, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • KEEP. Victim lists are questionable, but this appears to be a notable victim because it relates to a notable, widely reported event. HistoryBuffEr 02:48, 2004 Nov 21 (UTC)
  • Merge and redirect. --Viriditas 03:28, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep it's the incident, not the person that is notable. a merge of articles on such incidents would be ok.Wolfman 04:56, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. This particular article appears noteworthy. [[User:GRider|GRider\talk]] 18:08, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. For reasons stated by others that vote keep. --Dittaeva 20:46, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep. Should be renamed to UNRWA Co-Ed Elementary D School Incident or something similar. -- Key45 01:08, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep - Ta bu shi da yu 02:53, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete. Otherwise we should have thousands of articles dedicated to all victims in the conflict. This particular victim is not more notable than others. Most of them have been in one way or another mentioned in the media. Takalak 09:59, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete - Tεxτurε 21:38, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Voting Tally[edit]

Total 24 votes as of: 01:07, 2004 Nov 25 (UTC). (This VfD is past 5 days).

  • Keep:
  1. Xed 09:01, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  2. No-One Jones 09:03, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  3. Dr Zen 09:09, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  4. Alberuni 21:30, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  5. Josiah 04:18, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  6. RaD Man 23:23, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  7. Mustafaa 01:03, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  8. DCEdwards1966 03:00, Nov 20, 2004 (UTC)
  9. HistoryBuffEr 02:48, 2004 Nov 21 (UTC)
  10. Wolfman 04:56, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  11. GRider 18:08, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  12. Dittaeva 20:46, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  13. Key45 01:08, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  14. Ta bu shi da yu 02:53, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Delete:
  1. Improv 16:54, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  2. Rossami 17:11, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  3. Deletionist 21:23, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  4. Improv 17:27, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  5. Gamaliel 18:14, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  6. Takalak 09:59, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  7. Texture 21:38, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Merge and redirect:
  1. Geogre 19:46, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  2. A.M. 03:38, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  3. Viriditas 03:28, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  • Unclear vote:
  1. Humus sapiens 10:35, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC); Delete or Redirect?
  • Abstain:
  1. Jayjg 17:35, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
  2. L33tminion 19:03, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)

Comments[edit]

Unless I have counted the votes incorrectly, the majority vote is to keep this page. Thus, I suggest this VfD be ended and archived.--Josiah 04:18, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

  • What's the rush? Proper procedure would have us wait until the listing has run its normal time on VfD, and *then* judgement is made. --Improv 21:06, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
    • No rush. Someone will get around to this. - Ta bu shi da yu 02:53, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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