Talk:New Zealand Wars

Page One

I would prefer a more detailed and fact filled account of the lead up to the wars. In particular some detail about the whole sorry history of the wairau land purchases would be nice. Hawthorn

Hello again Hawthorn, I tend to agree with you and if no on else does it I will try and do something later, right now I dont feel qualified. So far as the Wairau massacre goes I think the best way to tackle that would be an article on the Wakefields and the New Zealand Company, their cavalier attitude towards the Tangata whenua created the situation. That was why I left out so much of the background. The First War wasn't about land at all, as much as anything it was because Hone Heke was pissed off with FitzRoy moving the capital to Auckland plus some serious stiring by the American consul. Cheers Ping 11:06 25 Jun 2003 (UTC)

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Oh, and 210.54.126.174 - they always turn out longer than anticipated! Sort of a law of nature, I think. Possibly the same law that says if you buy three bags of cement to concrete a path, you'll have to go back to the timber yard twice more to buy extra. And you finish it three weeks after the day you promised your Significant Other it would be ready. :) Tannin

It's still coming, geting longer and longer and this is only the first war, However I know the last war, the Dog Tax War will be very short because it only lasted one afernoon. Ping aka 210.54.126.174

modern NZ history

It's going well, Ping. I know very little of modern NZ history (bar what I've learned from this page), but if I may suggest something, I think the entry could use some background, so that we can see not just what happened but why it happened. What was the attitude of the settlers in general? Were the military authorities in their offices in ... er ... wherever they had their offices ... reluctant? Gung ho? At the end of the wars (when you get to that bit), did things settle down quickly? Or were there festering resentments that went on for years/decades?

Not a violent and primitive nature

Also, I know it's an entire different subject in itself, but one of the few things I do know about the Maori is that their incessant wars with one another were not caused by a "violent and primitive nature" (as Captain Cook no doubt liked to think) but by their economic circumstances: lots of people, and very little to eat. In particular, a severe shortage of protein. When the Maori first arrived from further north, they brought the standard Polynesian "package" of crops, none of which were really suited to the relatively cold climate of NZ, especially not the South Island. To begin with, this was no problem: they were rew in number and there was any amount of animal protein to be had for the taking. But as the population grew, they wiped out the various Moa species, and a few others as well, and not having cold climate crops like (e.g) wheat or barley, ran into a severe protein shortage, making human meat highly desirable. As I said, this is a matter for a seperate article, but I think a brief mention of it should be worked in somewhere. Otherwise, it's too easy to see the Maori as just "mad savages".

Tannin 11:23 Apr 2, 2003 (UTC)

While a shortage of protein might help explain the cannabalism, I don't think for example that the musket wars were caused simply by the desire for a good feed. It would be wrong to portray the maori of the time as essentially peaceful people driven to war purely by a shortage of protein. There was an undoubted enthusiasm for war and battle within the culture, a glorification of combat which was not unique to maori and which the British of the time also shared. Which may explain why they generally got on so well - when they weren't busy killing each other that is.

Hawthorn

Thanks Tannin. Fair comment and I will think about how to do that. The Flag Pole still gets chopped down from time to time, 1974 was the last time I think. I hope the way I described the last siege ending goes some way towardds giving a better picture of the Maori. Basically it was two very different cultures that simply did not understand each other backed up by a fair degree of arrogance on both sides. I don't think protein was short for the coastal Maori as there was abundant sea food. The canabalism was largely ritual ,by eating your enemy you aquired his strengths. I suspect, although almost no one agrees with me, that the tribal wars were an important form of population control

First Maori War

I have rewrtten Maori Wars as a very brief summary, one that still needs a lot of work and expansion. The First Maori War I have redirected to stand as an article in its own right as perhaps should the accounts of the other NZ wars if and when their articles appear appear. I see this aa an ongoing projest unless someone else wants to take over Ping 08:21 Apr 14, 2003 (UTC)

No no. You go right ahead, Ping. You are doing great. I'll come along and do my customary copyediting thing a little later. (I'm knee deep in bird taxonomy right now.) There is no need to have the entire project finished too fast. Anytime before ... oh ... about Wednesday will be fine. :) Tannin

which wednesday of 2005 did you have in mind?Ping 09:17 Apr 14, 2003 (UTC)