Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stefan Engeseth
The Swedish summer holidays are over, everybody's back in town, and the pranksters back at their computers wasting everybody's time. Stefan Engeseth is a vanity page for a "Stockholm-based businessman" and author of an "acclaimed" book on marketing, created by the same user as the Vendela Kirsebom article ten minutes earlier. (Kirsebom is rather more notable than Engeseth.) It's interesting to see how the user had, just before, inserted Engeseth and Kirsebom in the List of Swedes article under " Other notables", creating a hilarious effect in what had been a very short list of Swedish household names, and being underhand in marking the insertion of himself (?) as a minor edit. Then he created the Engeseth and Kirsebom articles, I don't know why, but perhaps less for self-promotion than in order to blue their telltale redlinks on List of Swedes. Anyway, I've asked Mic to revert the list, and Stefan Engeseth needs to be deleted, if not Vendela Kirsebom. Bishonen 13:19, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Delete: All the Swedes I know are scratching their heads on this. Minor figure, at best. Geogre 14:05, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Delete. He is not notable at all, nobody i know (Swedes and Swedish-Finlanders) have ever heard about this guy. Only 40 google.se hits and almost all are promoting him or his book. Kirsebom however should stay. bbx 14:13, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Delete—fair enough. I entered it but admittedly he is known only within his industry and perhaps those he has promoted his work to. He seems better regarded outside Sweden. To Bishonen: I have not entered anything about myself but was in touch with a couple of people as I wrote their bios (you'll probably be able to guess which ones) to ensure none of their personal info was put on without their permission. This was an innocent mistake, not a puff piece for Mr Engeseth and certainly not a prank. I will take responsibility and revert the list, removing Mr Engeseth, but will wait for the outcome of your decisions on Ms Kirsebom (who, again, seems better regarded outside Sweden). Stombs 22:15, Aug 13, 2004 (UTC)
- Hi there, Stombs. This is a vote about the Stefan Engeseth article, not about Vendela Kirsebom, and people here seem to agree in any case that she's notable enough to have her own article. But about the other matter, your addition to the List of Swedes of Engeseth and Kirsebom as two out of six (!) of the most notable "other" Swedes through the ages: uh, I don't quite know how to say this ... but I suppose E. and K. must simply be tremendously well-regarded outside Sweden. Thank you for removing Engeseth from the list, but I see that you've left Kirsebom right up there with Lars Johan Hierta and Sven Hedin. (It's not polite to look so surprised, co-voters. The two last-mentioned actually are notable in Swedish history.) (I've removed her now.) Admit it, you're trying to get on BJAODN, aren't you? Bishonen 23:32, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Hi Bishonen: thanks for replying to me. I am still getting used to conventions here but judging from Ms Kirsebom's company, I take your point and thank you for removing her. In that context, I may have succeeded in getting on to BJAODN! I know E. is well regarded in some overseas countries (but only in his field) and I'm about four degrees of separation from him but maybe I got suckered in by his promotion. Well, at least I didn't add the Graaf sisters. Then you guys would think I was on drugs. Stombs 23:46, Aug 13, 2004 (UTC)
- Hi there, Stombs. This is a vote about the Stefan Engeseth article, not about Vendela Kirsebom, and people here seem to agree in any case that she's notable enough to have her own article. But about the other matter, your addition to the List of Swedes of Engeseth and Kirsebom as two out of six (!) of the most notable "other" Swedes through the ages: uh, I don't quite know how to say this ... but I suppose E. and K. must simply be tremendously well-regarded outside Sweden. Thank you for removing Engeseth from the list, but I see that you've left Kirsebom right up there with Lars Johan Hierta and Sven Hedin. (It's not polite to look so surprised, co-voters. The two last-mentioned actually are notable in Swedish history.) (I've removed her now.) Admit it, you're trying to get on BJAODN, aren't you? Bishonen 23:32, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Delete. When the original author votes to delete, that's enough debate for me. Skyler 01:43, Aug 14, 2004 (UTC)
- Delete. Not notable. -- Mic 18:08, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Keep: Notable enough. It should not be expected that friends of yours know about swedish people known in the business inustry of sweden nor is it a criterion to have an article on him. This is not an encyclopedia on english culture but an encyclopedia in english. A Google search on swedish domains gave me 74 hits, a general google search will give 546 hits this excluding hits with wikipedia and not using filter. Stombs, there is no reason for you to vote for a delete, this is a completely legitimate article.--Dittaeva 20:28, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Excuse me? I'm sorry for taking a tone with you, Dittaeva, but what is it that in your opinion disqualifies the users who have voted about this, or friends of theirs (of whose, exactly?) from being knowledgeable on the subject? It can't be our nationality, since you do know that this is not an encyclopedia on English culture but an encyclopedia in English, so of course you realize that Wikipedia users aren't all Americans. Bishonen and Mic are Swedes, as it happens, bxx a Finland-Swede. But maybe you have some secret information about what line of work their friends are in? About the Google hits, though, I do appreciate that you supply the links and figures in a spirit of helpfulness, and I don't at all mean to suggest that the way you count is "wrong". But I think it's most usual, on VfD at least, to count only the hits that you actually see, i. e. up to the Google boilerplate "In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar"etc. Looked at like that, your links give 26 Swedish hits, 153 general hits, and surely that's woefully, almost incredibly, few for anybody in this line of business. Heck, never mind about ommitting the very similar entries, they're too few no matter what. The man's a marketing specialist, he teaches people how to get Google hits. But if Stombs or any other voter is impressed by your argument, I hope they know that they're free to change their votes any time, until the entry rolls off VfD. Bishonen 21:43, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Ok, I deserved your tone for the friends issue, I was thinking about Geogre with his "All the Swedes I know", and bbx with his "nobody i know". I am truly sorry about the google hit values I gave, I have always done it like that, but see that your way is the better one, will try not use such values again. But I still think he is notable enough.--Dittaeva 22:09, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Meant to establish the basis of my vote only. Since a Google search was unrewarding, I went back to the next level of research: Swedish language. Since I don't know Swedish, I have to rely on my Swedish friends to find out for me. I asked them, first, "Is this a famous person?" No. Then I asked them to find out. After a .se web search, the answer was "a business figure." Ok. So, having personally no knowledge of the figure, I went to Google. Getting nothing from Google, I went to Swedes I know. Getting nothing from them, I voted Delete. When I put in a vote, the words there are generally meant to be an explanation of why. If you found hundreds of Google hits in English, then your search was better than mine. Since this is the English language Wikipedia, I think we serve the Anglophone community. That means, to me, that an Anglophone would wish to know about the subject. I couldn't find a way for that to be the case with this figure. Geogre 13:23, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- My vote was rough because I don't care too much my futile votes. But since I'm at it: Searching Google for "stefan engeseth" -wikipedia -"known speaker in inspirational business" on english pages, without filter, I get 88 hits omitting "very similar hits". If you really are interested these hits describe him: [1], [2], [3] and probably some more on pages that does not seem to be his own. His book seems to be hailed as, well, really, really good. --Dittaeva 20:49, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Excuse me? I'm sorry for taking a tone with you, Dittaeva, but what is it that in your opinion disqualifies the users who have voted about this, or friends of theirs (of whose, exactly?) from being knowledgeable on the subject? It can't be our nationality, since you do know that this is not an encyclopedia on English culture but an encyclopedia in English, so of course you realize that Wikipedia users aren't all Americans. Bishonen and Mic are Swedes, as it happens, bxx a Finland-Swede. But maybe you have some secret information about what line of work their friends are in? About the Google hits, though, I do appreciate that you supply the links and figures in a spirit of helpfulness, and I don't at all mean to suggest that the way you count is "wrong". But I think it's most usual, on VfD at least, to count only the hits that you actually see, i. e. up to the Google boilerplate "In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar"etc. Looked at like that, your links give 26 Swedish hits, 153 general hits, and surely that's woefully, almost incredibly, few for anybody in this line of business. Heck, never mind about ommitting the very similar entries, they're too few no matter what. The man's a marketing specialist, he teaches people how to get Google hits. But if Stombs or any other voter is impressed by your argument, I hope they know that they're free to change their votes any time, until the entry rolls off VfD. Bishonen 21:43, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)