Talk:Pun

Typology

Some of the examples in this section are rather dubious. E.g.:

1 'Czech' and 'Check' sound pretty much identical to me, which rather contradicts the definition of an imperfect pun.

No, I am a Czech from my birth in Prague being baptized with Moldau - Vltava in Check Water and it may be Pretty Udderly Amoosing sorrrry to disagreeee --Capekm (talk) 23:09, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

sub 1 let me know what is perfect in this imperfect world except our definitions: having in mind Johann W Goethe's words: Grau is jede Theorie nur des Leben Baum is evig gruen! No pun is complete on the contrary: the point is only a vague area in life and where are we? I am afraid - or lucky? DO NOT KNOW - we are alive. --Capekm (talk) 23:09, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

2 The golf shop pun - there is only one pun here, the one on 'drive'. "Putting around in a golf cart" has nothing to do with it - 'putt' is used simply to change the meaning of 'drive'. --Graminophile (talk) 22:42, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

first point, agreed. and the examples overall are pretty poor and non-encyclopedic; a major overhaul is needed. second point, "putt" is a homograph; same form but 2 different meanings, namely a golfing-related "putt" = roll the ball into the hole on a golf green; and the driving-related "putt" (or "putt putt") = the rapid intermittent sound of a small gasoline engine. so i have to argue that there are two puns there, regardless of whether or not it's a good representative example for the article :) peace Warchef (talk) 20:24, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Golf carts have electric motors which do not "putt-putt"

SIMPLE QUERY - PLEASE RESPOND

How do you make the in Greek? I thought the code was "&sigmaf", but that didn't work. Please help.

You need a semicolon (ς), but it still won't work for some browsers. Similarly ς or ς.

Factual accuracy dispute

The description of a pun is more accurately a description of spoonerism and not pun. –– Constafrequent ^{(talk page)} 07:47, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

a.k.a. oonerspism

Ajoke

Q: When is a door not a door?
A: When it's (ajar/a jar)!

Once my brother and I went camping and he tried to scare me by pretending he was a bear, but I was barely scared. --Gimli 00:21, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

LOL

--Capekm (talk) 23:09, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

What´s the difference between a pun and a fart? A pun is a shift of whit! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.161.31.182 (talk) 17:58, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

And a fart is a wind of shit. --TiagoTiago (talk) 09:56, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

You mean 'whift', and you don't have to spell out the joke, Tiago. That tends to ruin the fun.148.64.29.61 (talk) 13:01, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Unsure of 'pun' definition

I added the following example 'pun': "Many puns are created without the knowledge of the speaker, For example: A TV show once depicted a man who had been impaled by an anchor. When interviewed the surgeon who performed the operation stated the common phrase "He sailed through it". With the pun being that an anchor is used during sailing."

Although, this doesn't seem to match the definition of pun at the top of the page. But i am sure this is labelled a pun. Can someone give me a heads up on this, i expect either i've confused this with another word, or the definition of 'pun' needs some additions to it..? Any ideas, anyone? ---Benbread 18:08, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It is a pun in that two different meaning of "to sail" are referenced, the metaphorical "sailing" through an operation being separate from the literal "sailing" which involves anchors. But I'll give the def. a look. Orbis 3 15:59:26, 2005-08-11 (UTC)

I have to disagree. Only one meaning of "to sail" is used, but one of the instances is a metaphor. No homonyms are involved, as required by the definition. This is a very common misuse of the term "pun", not an example of its use. Shantavira 13:35, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Orbis is correct. Using a metaphor with a connection in its literal sense is a legitimate type of pun. A wonderful example was a dialogue between two inveterate celebrity punsters, Gordon Jump and William Shatner, where Jump remarked that "I have three daughters and a shotgun," to the last part of which Shatner replied (among other things), "It must have been a breech birth." BobGreenwade 18:35, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Paranomasia

Currently, paranomasia redirects here. I feel it could merit a separate article. I have always thought that paranomasia was a subset of pun. Puns which were also examples of paranomasia used etymological word play ie. different meanings of one word etc not homophones or almost homophones. It has been a while though and I'm happy to be corrected. -orizon 10:28, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

    From a college printout I found paronomasia along with antanaclasis, and syllepsis are 3 subsets for pun
    the definitions being

    Pun: generic name for those figures which make a play on words
    antanaclasis: repetition of a word in two different senses
    "Your argument is sound, nothing buy sound." -Benjamin Franklin
    paronomasia: use of words alike in sound but different in meaning
    "Independence is what a boy feels when all he wants from father is to be left a loan." -Minneapolis Star, April 26, 1966
    syllepsis: use of a word understood differently in relation to two or more other words, which it modifies of governs
    " The ink, like our pig, keep running out of the pen." -Student paper

Sorry I don't know the source name so I'm not sure if this can be included, or where this would fit in. --24.145.155.131 02:18, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Orizon is correct. The word paronomasia should be removed or declared as a subset of puns. The article currently contradicts itself as antanaclasis is not paronomasia, but both are puns. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.90.158.132 (talk) 17:43, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Not only is that printout not a reliable source, it itself doesn't even say that paronomasia isn't punning. Its definitions of paronomasia AND syllepsis are contradicted by Dictionary.com. Other online dictionaries also consider them (paro + pun) synonymous. Does anyone have any sources that say otherwise?

Nowhere on this page is it said that antanaclasis is punning. Only the antanaclasis page disagrees. Note that even before my edit this page didn't hold it true: here's the old version. I say either find more sources or just change the antanaclasis page. - SSBDelphiki (talk) 07:38, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

The pun on "Peter" from Matthew

The article states that the pun wouldn't have worked in the origional Aramaic that Jesus spoke. Though "Peter" wouldn't have worked, there are two references to his name being "Cephas" which does mean "Rock" in Aramaic, so the pun would still work in the origional spoken language. If no one has any complaints against me changing that in the article I will change it in the next couple days. KyleT 22:54, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I am confused about the update on the section on Peter: "This has actually been presented as circumstantial evidence that the passage was originally invented, years after Jesus' death, by a Greek-speaking author." I don't understand what about the name difference in Aramaic and Greek makes it evidence that it was invented later, especially since he is called Cephas in John and 1 Corinthians. Is there a site that explains this more fully? Also, I don't believe that anyone contests that the Gospels were written at least 10-20 years after his death. KyleT 20:08, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. If the pun works in Aramaic as well as Greek, then surely it cannot be evidence for later invention. Nor can we simply reverse the sense by adding a "not". So let's just delete the sentence, unless anyone can explain it. TobyJ 11:36, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

How can this be an example of a pun at all? It is clear from the context that Jesus gives him the byname Peter/Cephas at this occasion; his real name was Simon. Apus 08:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

It's that way in the Bible

Jesus told me he was making a pun by changing Simon's name to represent his importance to the church. The sequence is clear in the Bible:

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar–jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.'

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Pretty clear to me: Simon=flesh and blood >> Peter=rock

It's the most famous pun in history. Ortolan88 21:53, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

"English-language phenomenon"?

In order to be able to pun effectively it is necessary that a language must include homonyms which may readily be misrepresented as synonyms. Languages with gender or case structures tend not to facilitate this: the pun is generally an English-language phenomenon, although puns can be constructed in other languages with varying degrees of difficulty. [emphasis mine]

I have to disagree, and strongly. Although I have not actually studied the matter, I have heard all kinds of things that suggest the pun is appreciated just as easily in a variety of languages. For example, I remember reading that a study, I forget which, showed that Germans have a high appreciation of puns. Puns may not be as easy to make in German, but the pun is certainly alive and well in Germany. Puns are very common in Japanese, with perhaps the most famous example being the title of the anime/manga Urusei Yatsura, which can be read literally as "people from the planet Uru", but "Urusei" ("planet Uru") sounds a lot like "urusai", meaning "obnoxious". It is very evident to me that Japanese is not at all lacking in pun-making capabilities and I would wager that they use puns more often than we do. So that covers Germany and Japan. The article itself mentions the ease of Chinese puns, which I assume typically follow the same principles as Japanese puns. So that covers three non-English-speaking countries that make heavy use of puns. If we assume that, if puns are indeed popular in Germany, they're probably popular in Austria and Switzerland too, that's two more countries. There are certainly languages where puns are so difficult to construct that they are not common or popular forms of humor in that language, but I think we're already getting far from "generally an English-language phenomenon". Sure, I've only mentioned three other languages, but even if these were the only languages with puns, would it make sense to you if somebody in China said "The pun is generally a Chinese-language phenomenon" on the basis that only three other languages had them? In any case, it seems apparent to me that it is a world-wide phenomenon. I'd change the article, but I think I should have a source to back up that assertion. - furrykef (Talk at me) 16:13, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I strongly agree with Furrykef's strong disagreement. To say that the pun is generally an English-language phenomenon is at best a parochial statement and certainly a wrong one. (To take but one example, long before the English language came into being, Indians were punning — and moaning at each other's puns — in Sanskrit and Tamil and writing them into their plays, poems, and grammar books.) Repeat that statement to any native speaker of any language and he or she will go on throwing puns at you until you drop to your knees and swear to forsake your punditry. - Mu 22:28, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

The article claims that punning is difficult in languages with a complex case structure. As a Finnish-language punster I must disagree with this (although I have no scholarly references, only personal experience). The Finnish case system is implemented by declinating words, which means that each word has a plethora of different forms. This phenomenon in effect multiplies the vocabulary available for punning. Very often it happens that unrelated, similar-sounding words have some declinated forms that are identical. For example, kuusta can be either the partitive case of kuusi, meaning spruce or the elative case of kuu, meaning moon. Kuusi, in turn, can mean also the number six (this one is a genuine homonym), or it can be a form of kuu, with 2nd person singular possessive suffix attached. Kuulla means hear, but it also is the adessive case of kuu. In the meaning six, the partitive case of kuusi is kuutta, which also is the abessive case of kuu. Punainen Nörtti

So, Naughty Nörtti, show us with a Finnish pun!TobyJ 12:20, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I mentioned the declensing puns, so I stick to this category (most of Finnish puns seem to be polysemia puns).

Vangilla oli karatessa musta vyö.

The prisoner had a black belt in karate / The prisoner had a black belt while escaping. (karatessa can be a declensed form or either karate or karata, to escape.)

Eläinkaupan hiiret olivat kateissa.

The mice of the animal shop were lost / The mice of the animal shop were in cats.

kateissa can be a declensed form of either katti meaning cat or kadota meaning to get lost.

Hevonen on turvallinen eläin.

A horse is a safe animal / A horse is an animal with a horse's mouth.

turvallinen can be a declensed form of either turva meaning safe or turpa meaning a horse's mouth.

Join kustakin mukista.

I drank from each mug / I drank also pee from a mug.

kustakin can be a declensed form of either kukin meaning each or kusi meaning pee.

Joutsenet näyttävät kurjilta.

The swans look miserable / The swans look like cranes.

kurjilta can be a declensed form of either kurja meaning miserable or kurki meaning a swan.

- Mitä teit puolityhjälle pullolleni? - Vein vajaan.

What did you do to my half-empty bottle. - I took the half-empty. / I took it into a barn.

Vajaan can be a declensed form of either vajaa, meaning half-empty or vaja, meaning a barn.

Kun ostaa maastoauton, ei tarvitse katua.

If you buy a Jeep, you do not need to regret / If you buy a Jeep, you do not need a street.

katua means to regret, but it can also be a declensed form of katu, a street.

Surraan vasta huomenna, sanoi kärpänen ja lähti kävelemään.

Let's mourn tomorrow, said a fly and walked away / I'll buzz tomorrow, said a fly and walked away.

Surraan can be a declensed form of surra, to mourn, or surrata, to buzz.

Western-tähti ei ampunut kuutta laukausta.

Western-star did not shoot six shots. /Western-star did not shoot a shot without a moon.

kuutta as above. The word tähti, star has the same polysemy as English meaning also a celebrity.

Note that all the above puns are grammatically correct in both ways. There are also Finnish puns that are grammatically correct when read in one way, and "almost grammatically correct" when read the other way.Punainen Nörtti 18:24, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Then some homonymia:

Jos tien toisella puolella on viisi puuta ja toisella kuusi, kuinka monta puuta on yhteensä?

If one side of a road has five pines and the other side six, how many trees are there altogether? / If one side of a road has five pines and the other side a spruce, how many trees are there altogether?

kuusi as above.

Then some compond word puns. In Finnish you can make compond words by writing the words one after another.

Lohiamme on täynnä lohiamme.

The pool for salmon is filled with our salmons.

Amme means a pool and lohi means a salmon, thus lohiamme is a pool for salmon. On the other hand, -a is a partitive marker (here used for plural) and -mme is a possessive suffix, and thus lohiamme means also our salmons.

Hienostoravintolassa käydään kauppaa ruumiineritteillä.

In a restaurant for the nobility they trade sweat./ In a buying-sweat-restaurant they trade sweat.

Hien osto means buying sweat, and when combined with ravintola, restaurant you write everything without whitespaces, that is, hienostoravintola (Meaning a restaurant that is concerned with buying sweat). Hienosto means also nobility, it is derived from the word hieno, fancy.

Pikkukaloille haitaksi on vaarallinen kulkuneuvo.

For little fish a dangerous vehicle is harmful./ For little fish a shark taxi is a dangerous vehicle.

Haitta means harm, and it declenses into haitaksi when by adding the transitive case marker. hai means shark, and taksi means taxi, thus haitaksi means a shark taxi.

Then the second-lowest form of punning, the polysemia pun. (The lowest form of punning is of course the polysemia pun using sexual euphemisms.)

Poliisi pidätti hengitystään.

A policeman held his breath. / A policeman arrested his breath.

Yes, the Finnish word for arresting, pidättää is used also for holding breath. Well, maybe the English equivalent could be A beautiful policewoman arrested my attention.

Jos menee asehuutokauppaan, ei kannata ostaa tarpeetonta kanuunaa.

It you go to a weapons auction, do not buy a needless cannon.

Needless cannon means also needless stuff.

Kävipä ohraisesti, sanoi oluenpanija.

Barley happens, said a brewer.

An old-fashioned Finnish equivalent of shit happens is barley happens.

Ahne koronkiskuri sai töita suutarilta.

A greedy loan shark was employed by a shoemaker.

loan shark is interest puller in Finnish, and the same word korko is used both for interest (in the context of loaning money) and heel (in the context of shoes), literally meaning rising.Punainen Nörtti 16:11, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Kiitos! Very impressive proof. TobyJ 18:23, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

dajare

The article dajare is big enough and distinct enough to be left separate. Anthony Appleyard 06:43, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Bibliomaniac15 23:56, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

From looking there, I think dajare looks like a version of a pun. Let's merge them. (142.22.186.7 20:42, 24 May 2006 (UTC))

Logically, dajare is large enough to be seen as a sub-page spun off of pun, with a summary on the main page prefixed by a reference to the full article. --Kaz 18:53, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Its similar, warranting a see also maybe, but seems different enough (and long enough) to warrant its own article. savidan^{(talk) (e@)} 11:37, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Oppose Similar, yes, but distinct enough that they should not be merged. EVula 21:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

What is distinct about it besides it having different examples because of the language? Is it not just a Japanese pun? In Defense of the Artist 16:24, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

"I prefer a partial merge" Reference should be made to the Japanese equivalent of the English pun, especially since they have a name for it. The reference could precede the notation on the Chinese. Anything beyond that would be tedious in the need for translation and explanation. [graycek,10:36AM,10/04/06]

There is no reason to merge "駄洒落(dajare)" and "Pun" in the database. 駄洒落(dajare) is not a spin-off of the Enlgish pun, it is a seperatly evolved idea that exists in almost all languages - which is also mentioned on the "Pun" entry in reference to ancient Hebrew puns. If 駄洒落(dajare) is merged you should merge any other entries of non-English puns also. --Xaghce 06:48, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Richard Whiteley

No page about puns is complete without a mention of the king of them all!Martyn Smith 21:36, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I would have said that Mr Whitely's use of puns was more accurately described as "awkward" rather than "dextrous"... --Amaccormack 10:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

We need more simple, modern examples of pun

Can't come up with any at the moment, though. --nlitement ^[talk] 02:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

* How did Mr Holmes figure out who dunnit? - Sheer luck!

* My dog is a champion boxer.

* A man went to NASA and asked if he could meet astronauts. The receptionist replied: I'm sorry, but they all have gone out to launch.

* A wife and a husband in the Soviet Union during Christmastime were arguing whether it snows or rains. They asked Rudolf, who answered that it rains. The wife said to his husband: Rudolf the Red knows rain, dear.

* Three brothers bought a ranch and their mother named it Focus, since that's where the sons raise meat.

* Do robots have brothers? - No, but they have transisters.

* - What is Mind? - No matter. What is Matter? - Never mind!

* The eleventh pun always gets the laugh, even if no pun in ten did.

* A Polish mathematician tried to fly an aeroplane. When he failed, he said: "I'm just a simple Pole on a complex plane."

* Two Brummies went to New York and drove a car on the left side of the road. A policeman stopped them and asked: "Did you come here to die?". The Brummies answered: "No, we came here yesterdie."

Update: Eats, Shoots and Leaves

Punainen Nörtti 10:55, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Bad word play is the ultimate pun-ishment Chris-marsh-usa (talk) 03:25, 3 March 2010 (UTC) (The Pun-isher)

Groanworthy modern pun follows:-

Q. Did you hear about the policeman who arrested a battery and a firework?

A. No....what?

Q. He charged one and let the other one off....

-- FClef (talk) 19:19, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Neologism?

How is Pun a neologism? I'm taking it out of that category. --Xyzzyplugh 14:58, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Are these really puns?

No. These aren't puns. They're complete nonsense. I say death to Hwoarang the doorbell.

Proposed merge

• Oppose.Both articles would lose their focus. Dajare is really culturally Japanese (I realise that the concept of ethnic culture is out of favour at the moment). It is part of the category of "Japanese word games" - what would happen to that if it were merged? It is strongly focused enough to stand alone.

Perhaps a disambiguation page or cross-reference is called for. -- FClef (talk) 23:48, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

• Oppose. The significance of dajare is specifically tied to Japanese culture and language (many, many homophones). The current cross-referencing seems sufficient to me. -Garrepi 01:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose. Very different contexts. Keep link at the bottom in see also. Scoutersig 15:35, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose. It's difficult to tell why at the moment, because I think the dajare article is very underwritten. However, the cultural importance of dajare is very much different from the cultural importance of the pun. The article on dajare should be much more detailed to reflect this; I think I know where to get more information about them, so I will see if I can strengthen the article to give it feet to stand on. Erk|Talk _{-- I like traffic lights --} 13:58, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Is this a pun?

"Pre-owned game." this is because own has two meanings, the original "own" and the leetspeak own or pwn, the latter meaning that the game was previously pwned "beaten". --211.28.237.112 15:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think "pwned" is commonly understood yet to become a pun except between those already familiar with "pwn". Still, few years later, I think it will be. --Revth 08:47, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I really like this one:

Quotations

..."Never underestimate someone's last name that is Pun, for in doing so, one is punning. The word joke is allowed, but don't choke yourself when saying 'Pun'." -- Lady Anthia - you know, I know that person...

--74.96.208.20 02:24, 17 December 2006 (UTC)User:Xinyu

WB

Warner Brothers' show "Animaniacs!" made great use of puns, one episode was even named "This Pun For Hire" and focused on dealing out one pun after the other at an unbelievable rate, you think they should be noted?

Yakko: How're you doing Scratchy? Dr. Scratchansniff: I take umbrage of that. Yakko: Oh sure, take all the umbrage, don't leave any for us! Dr. Scratchansniff: No, I mean, I take offense! Yakko: And you want our fence too? *hands Scratchansniff 5 planks of fence* Alrigh, take it! But that's all, we're tapped out! Kloey: Who are you guys? I'm new to this website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.130.117.109 (talk) 23:23, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Example in Intro

I believe the intro would be a lot clearer if there is a simple example with explanation in the intro. If I think of an appropriate one, I shall add it.leontes 02:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

"Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer by this son of York"

"Now is the Windows of our disk contents made glorious SimEarth by this son of Zork"

Globalize

Hey folks. I added the globalize tag to the article because it describes punning and how it is interpreted primarily from a western, english speaking perspective. It notes that punning is seen as something of an art form in the UK, for example, whereas US audiences may be less impressed by the skill. The fact that such distinctions exist between just the US and the UK -- from a global perspective, culturally and linguistically similar places -- should behoove one to ask how other countries and cultures view the practice. Sadly, no word on how puns are received in France, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, China, Indonesia, or Zimbabwe.

While it is impossible to cover every place, culture, and language, it would be nice if this were fleshed out a little bit more. Thanks a bunch, 70.132.14.22 07:09, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Official Puns?

I don't understand why this section exists in this article. A number of these so-called "examples" explain precisely why the phrase used is NOT a pun. I do not understand how this contributes to this article. Specifically, the example of "Curb your dog" to me, does not realise any pun. The example of the GM amphibious truck is silly, as the paragraph states, "Hey, this SEEMS like a pun, but it actually isn't! HA HA!" I would suggest that this section be either cleaned up significantly or removed. 69.121.41.162 03:41, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Fun with Auto-antonyms

Weather can mean to erode or to endure

We can weather the weather while weather weathers witherite wether one wekagram or one wektogram. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Asha'man Nellis, Jearn Rift Sept of the Codarra Aiel (talk • contribs) 19:39, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

James Bond movies

I think it should be mentioned that *all* the James Bond films always have puns after the villain dies. It's always like James Bond fries the villian or something and then makes a witty commentary (like the villian being a "hothead" or something...) Dunno, someone ought to collect them James Bond puns.85.0.115.168 (talk) 13:28, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Lojban Reference

Why was the lojban reference removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sdeshpa (talk • contribs) 04:52, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Do we really need a big, huge list of puns?

I think that the list should be either A) removed or B) cut. RockRichard (talk) 04:20, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

It helps gives plenty of examples, as well as providing laughs. I do not think it takes away from the article in the least. -Joozpope 2:15, 15 December 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.49.115.51 (talk)

I think a list is necessary because the recursive pun section for example has puns taking a homophonic format. There should be an examples list with each of them classified from the types discussed in the page. It doesn't need to be large but it should at least contain two or three examples of each pun type. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.66.31.58 (talk) 02:37, 12 August 2017 (UTC) I think we should keep the list — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ooh Saad (talk • contribs) 14:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Etymology section

The etymology section contained a statement There is no creditable documentation for the notion that the word is a backronym for "play upon names". I've removed this particular section [1]. It was tagged with a {{fact}} flag, which is nonsense. What is the fact flag tagging? That there is no documentation, or that the word is a backronym? If the flag is tagging the lack of documentation, how can one cite something which does not exist? or that the word is a backronym?

The term is attested from the 17th century; acronyms (and backronyms) are constructs of the 20th century, with some very few from the late 19th century, but none so far back (reliable sources can be provided, some of which are already discussed in the acronym article). Claiming that pun is a backronym of play upon names is under the same nonsense as claiming that golf was an acronym for "gentlemen only, ladies forbidden" or shit for "ship high in transport". Yngvarr (c) 14:55, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Some did something stupid.

Hi. Someone changed the whole article to the words "a penis". I didn't like that so I got an old copy and changed it back to normal. Just wanted to let everyone know I changed it back. Look at the history to see for yourself someone changed it to 'a penis'. From Cliko

Example in intro, revised

The example in the lead paragraph used to be "there is nothing punny about bad puns". While it is a cute example, its self-reference make it confusing. I have replaced it by a less funny but hopefuly more understandable example, "Do you want some cheese to go with your whine?". If you have an even better but simple example, please go ahead. (The "nothing punny" example is now in the "puns about puns" section.) Jorge Stolfi (talk) 02:20, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe the "there is nothing punny" is a better example: the other one is complicated by sarcasm, which is another form of humor and I think confuses the issue. Also, the wine line has been exploited in film and television, and I think having a popular pun in the lede feels somehow off for a encylopedic article, and may confuse people to think that puns need be familiar. Although it may be self-referential, I do not find it confusing. However, some other simple ideas for sample puns: "Wikipedia is a free insightlowpedia." "Savour the article after editing it." "The encyclopedia that everyone can edict!" I do think "there is nothing punny" is the best example and is more appropriate, however. Additionally, the way that the lede has been edited in the third paragraph "A pun may also exploit confusion" is confusing, as it restates the content of the first sentence using more precise language, which is appropriate, so "in other words" would be a better way to start the sentence. leontes (talk) 03:02, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

I am not happy with the "whine"/"wine" example either, but I still think that the self-reference in "nothing punny" is not didactical. The Wikipedia examples above are cute; however, I feel that referring to Wikipedia in Wikipedia articles kinda inappropriate (like a movie character saying "this is not a movie, you know". It breaks the spell...). All the best, --Jorge Stolfi (talk) 03:20, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

"A linguist sword is always sharp." "When it comes to choosing vowels, I'm pick e." "Meat packers are not only smart, they are cleaver." "Lunch thyme, Dinner parsley." leontes (talk) 06:56, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

"Pun indented"

Unfortunately this edit was reverted, but IMHO it is the best example of a self-referential pun.

• "Pun indented" (An edit on Wikipedia by User:Punainen Nörtti)

(Play on "pun intended")

Joepnl (talk) 18:59, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

If we were not an encyclopedia and were instead Joke-of-the-day, sure. But we are not and we do not include self referential "examples". -- The Red Pen of Doom 19:04, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Examples are bad

Congratulations on about the lamest collection of puns I've ever seen. I mean, they are BAD. Was this intentional? 99.231.223.132 (talk) 05:27, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Statement?

Shouldn't the statement:

Walter Redfern exemplified this type with his statement "To pun is to treat homonyms as synonyms"

be in the section on Homonym puns, rather than in the section on Homophone puns?70.179.92.117 (talk) 04:15, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Aspect ?

In the section on Double/Multiple puns, what is meant by "first aspect" and "second aspect"? Is the example Tom Swiftly a good illustration of the two aspects? It looks to me like a garden-variety compound pun -- two puns ("con" and "descending") in one statement.70.179.92.117 (talk) 04:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Great Dessert

Why can a man never starve in the Great Desert? Fifth not explained pun? Isn't dessert something to eat too? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.230.54.20 (talk) 16:02, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Additions to the typology?

Are these already covered in the typology? "paradigmatic puns (which depend on outside context, such as the multiple plays on “crossing state lines for immoral purposes”), and syntagmatic puns (where two related words are both found in the same pun, such as “You can tune a guitar, but you can’t tuna fish. Unless of course, you play bass”)." from this Boston.com review of "The Pun Also Rises". Jodi.a.schneider (talk) 12:06, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Learn the difference between "that" and "which". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.22.165.103 (talk) 05:38, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

IF there are more pun types you are aware of then can you add them on to the main page?68.66.31.58 (talk) 02:41, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Removed Kennedy example

The example of Kennedy's speech given in the Rhetoric section was not suitable with regards to the statement it was meant to support. It is not an example of a pun intentionally used as a rhetorical device, that was misinterpreted by the audience - Kennedy did not intend any double meaning or wordplay. Furthermore it is not even an example of an "unintented pun". The entire story hinges on the assertion that the phrase "ein Berliner" does not have a double meaning (required for a pun), but can only refer to "a jelly doughnut". If that were true, it would be a form of malapropism rather than a pun. However, the idea that Kennedy made a "mistake", which the Germans found amusing, has been thoroughly debated and debunked on the Ich bin ein Berliner page. IamNotU (talk) 22:08, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Top image as example, "kleptoruomania"

I wonder if this is truly a pun or a malapropism, and I guess I don't fully understand the difference if the top image and example is "kleptoruomania"... Is there a reason why this is a pun while "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" is malapropism or a spoonerism? Or the better example of "electric college" instead of electoral is a difference in a syllable or two, much like kleptoruomania, so I don't see how it is truly a pun. And maybe I am not getting the difference between these various terms, is it that "electric" is already a word? So using the wrong existing similar word is the distinction in humor? I thought what made a pun a pun was sounding the same or being the same word with different meaning. It seems adding "ruo" as an additional syllable doesn't make this the best example of a pun, because you can add syllables to any word or country to change its meaning entirely, "China up" would be a terrible example of pun for example. The most apt example should be given top billing, or none at all... I actually came to this page for a clearer understanding of what makes something a pun, and the showcased example doesn't really fit the differentiation between some of the similar word plays described. I'm sure there are plenty of examples of homonyms used without additional syllables, maybe from Groucho Marx or someone that could better exemplify this distinction. PJV (talk) 09:01, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

I think you're right, it's not pun at all. I think it's usually more difficult to imagine images for the puns, where the humour springs not from what it seen but just from what is heard. It is still possible, of course [2], [3] etc. Indeed the Violent Veg series of greetings card has made a big commercial success out of vegetable-related puns: [4]. One of these would be ideal, I guess, but they'll all be copyright protected. Somewhere in between the two, perhaps, is Graham Rawle and his well-known "Lost Consonants" series. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:19, 2 December 2015 (UTC) ... is this a big pun, or just a little Malapropism?

Links to other languages

In Spanish and other languages, puns are only linked to calambur, a joke that consists of uniting word sounds, not paronomasia. Calambur is actually a subset of paranomasia, and paranomasia a subset of pun. Seems to be a systematic link in at least 4 languages. So shouldn't there be a more complete original article and derivatives? As it was suggested before? Chibs007 (talk) 15:13, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Tragedy on the Cliff by Eileen Dover

Regarding Wikipedia:Reference desk/Entertainment#Tragedy on the Cliff:

If we can find out the name of these, or at least come up with a good section heading, we might be able to add something about them, sourced or not. After all, they have been around, everyone knows them, and other media refers to them.

Thoughts?

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:25, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Boldly added here. Please leave it, expand it, source it, or remove it. As you wish. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:39, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

(Adding link to thread once it gets archived, since I'll probably forget to do it in a few days when the link turns blue: Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Entertainment/2017_June_8#Tragedy_on_the_Cliff. ---Sluzzelin talk 04:55, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Well, I have a reference if not a name...

Partington, Alan (2006). The Linguistics of Laughter: A Corpus-Assisted Study of Laughter-Talk. Routledge. p. 127. ISBN 978-0-41538166-6.

Quote: "A series of children's jokes based on the theme of 'the World's Greatest Books' work by metanalysing a seemingly innocuous author's name; the humour is in the relation between the new M2 and the book topic which often contains an element of taboo: The Haunted House by Hugo First ('you go first'), Cliff Tragedy by Eileen Dover ('I leaned over'), What Boys Love by E. Norma Stitts ('enormous tits')".

Alansplodge (talk) 23:10, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

And Booth, David (1990). Writers on Writing: Guide to Writing and Illustrating Childrens Books. Grolier Limited. p. 83. ISBN 978-0717223930.

Quote: "Beware, too, of the inadvertent pun. No character can survive a name like Gloria Mundy, Hugo Fast, or Marietta Lyon. (The unregenerate Peter DeVries must answer for Eileen Dover, Herbie Hind, and Justin Case.)".

Alansplodge (talk) 23:29, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Well bloody done, Alansplodge! I'm afraid I must leave it to you or others to add those refs because google books is blocked where I am. Good digging! Thank you! Anna Frodesiak (talk) 02:06, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Now done Anna. I wonder how long the "E. Norma Stitts" gag will stay in the article?  :-) Alansplodge (talk) 17:52, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Pure Recursive Puns

In the main Wikipedia article, all of the pun examples in the Recursive Pun section are what I believe to be in an Homophonic Pun format. Can someone provide a pun that isn't in a Homophonic format, preferably ones that don't take any form of the other pun types like Homographic or Compounded? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.66.31.58 (talk) 22:21, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Morphological Pun Expansion

The "Other" section talks of morphological puns like portmanteau. I would like to see more examples of this type other than portmanteaus but I would accept some of those.68.66.31.58 (talk) 03:07, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Opening sentence

The opening sentence of this article is rather complex for a first sentence of an article. I am sure that there must be an easier way of defining puns - such as saying that they are plays on words. Vorbee (talk) 17:47, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Wondering if this is a pun please? we are on the subject of canyons and hiking and books, please see below

Not in the canyon in my book — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.13.254.124 (talk) 22:17, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Peace/peas example/egg sample

   Maybe this is just my pea-culi-nary hangup, but I get a lot of cognative dissonance/mental interferance when I contemplate specifically "Give peas a chance": I'm distracted, perhaps bcz my mom during pregnancy viewed a tee-shirt that depicted a guy holding a blender, and the slogan "Visualize whirled peas". I'm a bit more than half-serious, in saying that my aged brain doesn't have room for more than one pun on peas/peace w/o balking, and I'd welcome a different example entailing, say, a longer quasi-spoonerism like "... the squaw on the hippotamus, and the sons of the squaws on the other two hides", which puns on the Pythagorean Theorem.
--Jerzy•t 08:58, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
egg Jacques Lee or wikt: lee

pun

Imagine if someone's heart was arrested. (a pun on cardiac arrest. 🥁🥁🥁) Elaboratescanner04 (talk) Elaboratescanner04 (talk) 06:30, 26 September 2023 (UTC)