Talk:Dominus Iesus

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[Untitled][edit]

Well so what is being done with this page? Koyaanis Qatsi

Nothing by me lately - it was a decent chunk of content that didn't belong where it was and concerned this topic -- you want to work on it -- go ahead ClaudeMuncey

Responses to some questions regarding certain aspects of the doctrine on the church[edit]

The document "Responses to some questions regarding certain aspects of the doctrine on the church", issued June 29, 2007, has been getting a fair bit of press, for example Vatican Reaffirms Catholic Primary Washington Post (via Reuters), July 10, 2007. Per Wikipedia:Recentism, I'm trying not to jump to the conclusion that the Responses are more notable than the Dominus Iesus itself or the other earlier documents. At least for now, I just added the Responses as an external link without comment. It is far from clear to me how to organize this material, whether in the Dominus Iesus article or very general articles like Sectarianism or something in between ("Catholic attitudes towards non-Catholic Christians" or some such). Kingdon 18:12, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You might consider subsuming the recent statement, including summary and reactions, under the article Catholic Church and ecumenism, New Tensions or Main Documents subsection. There is a flurry of news about it now, but not as much as there was in response to Dominus Iesus, if I recall. The.helping.people.tick 20:40, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'm not sure I have the knowledge or inclination to do major work on any of these articles, but I have added "see also" sections so that editors and readers can at least know the related articles exist. Kingdon 23:12, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Huh?[edit]

The article says

The lack of this filioque clause may have been due to limit of space, focus of theme, restrictions of time, or even due to merciful disinclusion from subject matter, although it was still universally recognised. Regardless, there is no basis for the idea that a cardinal would stay the Nicene Creed in part or totality, while it is more likely that even a future Pope would kindly refuse mention of existing contention while writing words of peace. Hence, no filioque clause was restated because it was already existent and required no further presence in the document of Dominus Iesus.

Could someone please translate that into English? Jhobson1 (talk) 13:07, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Problematic "Response to Criticisms" material[edit]

The following was in the "Response to Criticisms" section:

Other controversies were unanswered by John Paul II, however the text of declaration "Dominus Iesus" was not withdrawed, though even many catholics consider it to be very archaic and retarding and that it should be interpreted nonverbatim.
Catholic paper "W drodze" wrote that many catholics will withdraw their support for declaration's teachings or even attack it.^[1]
One of catholic Superior General commented the declaration in following words:

"We shouldn't argue, whose way is better, but go. And we shouldn't deny right of others to their own way, and we shouldn't deny a possibility that this other way can be successful.
^{[citation needed]}
To these criticisms it can be answered that faithfuls are obliged to accept the teachings of the Magisterium and it is also defined as a dogmatic truth that doctrinal or moral teachings of popes are

"of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable"^[2]

This strikes me as problematic on a few grounds. The tone is contentious, and seems (to me) to go against [{WP:NPOV]]. In addition, there's only one source, and that's in Polish--I can't really check it, but it seems to me that on an English-language Wikipedia, there needs to be an English language source for us to check it against. (Am I out of line on that?)

There are also weasel-word issues. (e.g "many catholics" consider DI archaic--well, there are a billion Catholics, so "many catholics" believe just about anything, right?) I don't think this material is essential to the article, so I'm removing it. -- Narsil (talk) 09:59, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why is there a "response to criticisms" heading without a "Criticisms" heading or even a decent description of what the criticisms are? POV, but more importantly downright confusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.106.161.153 (talk) 12:56, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ (in Polish) Naśladowanie Mistrza, 2001, "W drodze" by Dominican Order
^ First Dogmatic Constitution on the Church of Christ, Session 4, Chapter 4:9

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[1] (in Polish) Naśladowanie Mistrza, 2001, "W drodze" by Dominican Order

[2] First Dogmatic Constitution on the Church of Christ, Session 4, Chapter 4:9

[1]

[2]