Talk:Winchester rifle

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Plant closure[edit]

What's going on with the plant closure section? Should things like this just be deleted? --Squirrelfisher 20:29, 09 Dec 2006 (EST)

agh at least you can read this now -- im a little worred about the source however --Davelane 23:24, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

(Can we decide what this article is about? It would help to organize it. Is it only about Winchester lever-action rifles, or does it include their other rifles as well? Why not just write about the company and not rifle?)

This article needs some serious work. I propose creating a Winchester Repeating Arms Company article for the company history, and using this or other articles to describe the guns. -- Scott Burley 09:46, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)

I wanted to clean it up, but this article is so badly written, I have no idea how to do it. I could try to translate the German article, but since German is not my native language (nor is English, but my English is much better than my German) it might be hard. -- Sander 17:18, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

ok, I see at least two articles in this document. One is on the acutal "Winchester Rifle" family. The other is on the corporate history of the Winchester Repeating Arms Company. Therefore, for the sake of organization, I'm going to try splitting the two articles.

ok, the article is now split. Part of it remains here, and other half was moved to Winchester Repeating Arms Company. It still feels like its missing a lot of information though. --Moki80 20:47, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I've added quite a bit, but it could use a lot more work. I tried to at least give a brief overview of the main rifle types and general history of the company. The existing article seemed to end with the Model 1873.

the '92 clone Puma is not Italian made[edit]

"Millions of '92's have been made, and although Winchester phased them out several decades ago, they are still being made under the Puma label by an Italian arms maker."

The Puma is made by the Brazilian company Amadeo Rossi: http://www.rossi.com.br/

Legacy Sports used the Puma brandname on 1892 clones made by Amadeo Rossi; the Puma Brand rifles sold by Legacy today are made by Chiappa in Italy. Naaman Brown (talk) 01:40, 10 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like a line from a movie trailer[edit]

"In the movie Babel, two boys test the range of a Winchester rifle in the Moroccan desert, and in an instant, the lives of four separate groups of strangers on three different continents collide."

Seriously, does that sound a little off to anyone else? --72.155.176.252 21:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sheesh. That was put in by the movie's publicity department, wasn't it? Trekphiler 23:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hooking a Marlin[edit]

I deleted this:

"Marlin Firearms, also of New Haven, labored for a century as an underdog levergun maker to Winchester's number one. However, in the 1980s and 1990s, the current incarnation of Marlin finally began to outpace its old rival. It is currently the dominant seller of lever action rifles in North America. Its use of side ejection allows for flat-topped firearms, thereby making the mounting of scopes far easier than for traditional Winchesters. This helped Marlin capture more market share as American shooters came to rely more and more on optics. Marlins are also larger and stronger than most of the Winchester line, allowing them to take advantage of revolutionary new magnum-level versions of such cartridges as the .45-70.

While true, it's not about Winchester. If anybody thinks it's worth saving, move it to the Marlin page. --The Rifleman 23:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agreed, so I copied it over. We'll see how it fares. Gzuckier 15:08, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Major Re-Write[edit]

I've embarked upon an extensive re-writing of this article, which I'm sure you can agree was in dire need of attention. I'm not a Winchester firearms historian, however, so if anyone with more knowledge on the subject wants to help out, that would be muchly appreciated! --Commander Zulu 07:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've tweaked it a bit, especially in the bolt-action section. US designers like James Parris Lee (of the Winchester-Lee and Lee-Enfield) and the Springfield Armory also made major contributions to bolt-action design. And there's no particular advantage in strength in a normal (non-Weatherby) bolt over a heavy locked lever like the M1886; but the lever action is much more difficult to make and has a lot more moving parts.--Solicitr (talk) 23:40, 16 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Added stubbish paragraph on the Model 88--Solicitr (talk) 18:18, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No takeover in '63[edit]

This article and the companion article on the company repeat the erroneous statement that Olin bought winchester in 1963. Wrong- by three decades. Olin bought the bankrupt Winchester Repeating Arms Co in 1931, and president John Olin saw it through some of its best years. The '64 disaster was just another example of the pernicious MBA-itis that ruined so many great American manufacturers at the time (Fender and Gibson guitars, for example). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Solicitr (talk • contribs) 04:18, 10 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We just need sources to reference. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (talk) 17:48, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Bolt-action rifles[edit]

Would anyone object if I reorganized the bolt-action section to use the same format as that on levers? Ultimately I suppose this article should include autos and pump rifles as well- and perhaps give the shotguns their own article?--Solicitr (talk) 22:20, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How about adding the 9422?[edit]

I know there are many models that are not notable enough to deserve their own section (eg 250, 270, 1904, 320) but I think the 9422 is genuinely notable for high-quality manufacture, appropriating the Old West glamour of the historic models in a modern .22 rifle, and enduring public acceptance. Even the great 52 has not approached the acceptance of the 9422 as far as I can see.ChrisPer (talk) 04:18, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea; the 9422 is a popular rifle because, as you say, it's a .22 version of the Model 1894 and is fairly well known. I just don't know enough about the rifle to add anything beyond "the Model 9422 is a .22 calibre version of the Winchester Model 94 and it's very popular for that reason". :P Commander Zulu (talk) 04:43, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Its actually only stylistically similar to the 94 with a very interesting mechanism, a more reliable feed than the 94. Handles the .22 round by rim only, rather than laying it on a lifter. I will see if I can find the introduction date and production numbers.
Added. Please improve, I can see its a first cut! ChrisPer (talk) 02:57, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Model 9410[edit]

I don't suppose anyone has references for production dates on the Model 9410 lever-action shotgun, do they? Everything I've found on the 'net indicates a 2001-2006 production run but I haven't managed to find a reputable cite to that effect yet.Commander Zulu (talk) 05:48, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, thats a weird one. Are you sure this is notable enough for the article? It isn't a rifle, after all, and looks like an indulgence for sale in the UK or other places with better laws for shotguns than rifles. Do you know what it was all about? ChrisPer (talk) 09:39, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
They were reasonably popular here in Australia for a wee bit, as they were pretty much the only repeating shotguns that anyone could own (that bolt-action Mossberg thing doesnt count.) .410ga is often used for snakes and rabbits and foxes at close range here, so there was a market for the gun. IAC started selling 12ga versions of the M1887 in Australia in 2006 which pretty much killed the market for the 9410- that and the Winchester factory had closed down anyway. Commander Zulu (talk) 10:35, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
CZ- Why on earth does Oz outlaw pump shotguns?Solicitr (talk) 16:33, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
They're not outlawed, just not available to "regular" shooters unless they're farmers or collectors (there are a lot of farmers in Australia, FWIW). The laws were changed in 1997 after the Port Arthur Massacre in Tasmania; I believe pump-actions were restricted at the same time for no better reason than they're in a lot of action movies and John Howard (PM at the time) didn't like them. Every couple of years they talk about easing the restrictions on pump-action shotguns, but in the meantime the lever-action 12ga reproductions are the nearest available thing. Commander Zulu (talk) 02:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It seems rather daft, given that the weapon in question at Port Arthur was an AR-10 automatic rifle. What harm in simply restricting pump shotters to 3-round mags?
(I note incidentally that apparently Bryant would have been stopped by the gas station guy had not the preposterous law regarding safes been in effect).Solicitr (talk) 16:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Every gun owner in the country has been asking for a decent explanation re: pump-action shotgun restrictions since 1997, and with no luck. The gun laws here don't make a lot of sense, but there's no political support for a liberalisation of introduction of sensibility to them, so we're stuck with them. Commander Zulu (talk) 00:00, 13 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

290???[edit]

theres nothing in here about the 200 series winchester rifles? does anybody know enough to write about them?

Really they are not very notable. I remember them being listed in catalogues, in 1974 when I joined a Winchester lever-action rifle club. They were not allowed in club events because they did not have an exposed hammer. In the years since then I have only seen one or two, and almost never did they get comment in the shooting press.ChrisPer (talk) 02:01, 20 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This article has undergone a lot of mission creep. Originally it just covered Winchester's classic leverguns. Then bolt-actions got added, and shotguns, and so on. Myself I'd cut the article off at 1963, but I suppose it's too late for that.Solicitr (talk) 13:40, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Use by military forces[edit]

Please include details about the use of the Winchester Model 1873 rifle by the Chilean and Spanish cavalry.

Also, please include information about the employment of Winchester rifles during the War of the Pacific (1879-1884), the Mexican Revolution and World War I.

Finally, please include information about the use of Winchester rifles by Cuban and Philippine guerillas in the late 19th century. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.52.227.200 (talk) 10:26, 8 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure ANY of this belongs in the article. Maybe in the respective articles about each rifle, but not here. At best it should be noted that Winchesters were shipped all around the world and sold to the governments of many nations to be used by the military. I own such a rifle, an M1873 Lever Action Musket that was sold to the Argentine government for use in their Army, but never issued. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (talk) 17:51, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

1888 Lever Action Saddle ring.[edit]

I have become the owner of a Winchester saddle ring model 1888. This is in 32-20 and was manifactured in 1917. I don't see this model in the Winchester model listings, how come? David —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.26.122.12 (talk) 05:10, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure it's not a Model 1886? Or a Marlin '88? To the best of my knowledge the only "Model 1888" Winchester ever made was a reloading tool. --Solicitr (talk) 04:06, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
In 1917, the 32-20 would have been chambered in an 1892 Winchester. I suspect that if you think its a Winchester but its really a Marlin 1888 (Which does exist unlike a Winchester 1888) then you may need to look up the date of manufacture again - is it from a Winchester reference book, webpage or from reading a patent date off the barrel? If it is a Marlin, it may be much more valuable than the Winchester.ChrisPer (talk) 06:46, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ditto. The Win '86, a big high-power rifle, was never chambered in .32-20- that's what the 1873, 1892 and '85 low-wall were for; and Marlin '88s are valuable generally and especially valuable in .32-20 (fewer than 2000 made).--Solicitr (talk) 16:52, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WTF? Iconography section is tripe, er, not the slightest bit encyclopedic[edit]

Seriously. It uses flowery imagery, like a tourist brochure or an advertising newspaper puff-piece. It is unreferenced. And it is BS. It asserts that the '73 and Peacemaker were the 'standard tools of the west' when we are very careful to debunkthis movie-poster ahistoric nonsense. I am deleting the section. ChrisPer (talk) 05:01, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Winchester Model 1873[edit]

The first paragraph of this section is confusing regarding ammunition and the distinction between rifle and carbine. It says that all three variants used pistol ammunition, but then says the carbine was popular because it allowed users to share ammunition with their pistols. The whole article is confusing as between rifle and carbine, sometimes using "rifle" to include carbine, and sometimes distinguishing between rifle and carbine. Cyclopaedic (talk) 13:58, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The only problem I see with that paragraph is with the last part of the last sentence, which does seem like an incorrect distinction. I think the confusion here may lie in the fact that "carbine" is often used as a description for a rifle that is shorter than is usual for that type. So, sometimes the carbines will be included when talking about rifles, and sometimes there will be a distinction made between the regular rifles and the carbines. - Bardbom (talk) 14:43, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I went ahead and fixed that sentence, and moved the tidbit about it allowing users to carry the same ammo for both rifle and pistol to a more appropriate place. - Bardbom (talk) 15:01, 30 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Model 1866: a wooden forearm?[edit]

At this stage, the article states:

the Model 1866. It retained the .44 Henry cartridge, was likewise built on a bronze-alloy frame, and had an improved magazine and a wooden forearm.

A wooden forearm in the 1866 model? really? I thought it never had one... Kintaro (talk) 18:33, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Forget my message above, I mixed up the Henry rifle (no forearm) with the Winchester 1866 rifle (with a forearm included, of course). Kintaro (talk) 19:17, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:23, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Query notability/relevance[edit]

Currently a sentence tacked onto the Model 1876 section reads "Former slave and first African American woman to work for the us postal service Mary Fields has also been photographed with a winchester 1876[15]" Now, it is true that the two preceding sentences refer to ownership of '76s by Teddy Roosevelt and Geronimo-- but Roosevelt was and is famous as a hunter and Geronimo as a warrior: in other words, their notability is bound up with using guns. But I can't see what "first African American woman to work for the us postal service" has to do with firearms. It would be like the Ford Motor Co. page rather arbitrarily pointing out that Wolfgang Puck once owned a Ford. Solicitr (talk) 22:36, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK,I'm going to delete, in the absence of objection Solicitr (talk) 22:49, 4 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:33, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

a comment[edit]

"the gun that won the west" it didn't "won" any west — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.235.251.172 (talk) 18:56, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"The Model 1866 compelled Russians to develop a new rifle, the Mosin–Nagant, after the war." Except for 13-14 years "post-war", any decent source for this? The Winchester cartridge was then considered low-power, and multiple charges were not considered an advantage. With the exception of Vetterli, then there were almost no multi-shot rifles under the army cartridges at all. The appearance of Mosin was only provoked by the general transition of other armies to similar systems.

Henry's personal Winchester[edit]

I have Henry's personal Winchester and believe it could clear up some things about who did what and when. It's one of four prototypes. The only one not accounted for. I would like to sell it but what is it worth. Someone at Henry Co. said they would give me $176.000.00 I need help please Someone 50.86.54.165 (talk) 18:46, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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