Talk:San (letter)

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picture[edit]

someone have a PNG for this? 132.205.15.43 00:15, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I may have. And i believe this is called Stigma not San Link is: http://www.jesus8880.com/chapters/gematria/greek-alphabet.htm (is the letter's look)

No, stigma is a ligature of sigma and tau. San is a different letter. —Muke Tever talk 18:47, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

M[edit]

How is this letter distinguishable from mu?? Georgia guy 14:33, 4 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Very diffrent. Mu is Μ & μ,. San is very diffrent looking. (Thing wont load on).

User:HurricaneCraze32

I thought this too before doing as I did with the Greek alphabet/letter table. Upon digging, there is a difference and only a superficial similarity to mu (M/μ). This is also complicated by the fact that San (given its relative obsolescence) isn't yet included in standard or expanded character sets. E Pluribus Anthony 21:26, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps in Windows Vista it might. Anyone know this?? Georgia guy 01:26, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Who knows.I wonder if it is actually called Stigma not San.Use the link up there.

User:HurricaneCraze32

From what I can tell, the difference between Mu and San is the middle bridge part of Mu extends farther down than in San. Kind of hard to explain, but it's a subtle difference. Correct me if I'm wrong.

No, though that's one way people draw it today to emphasize the difference. When san still was in use, mu looked a lot different (kind of like

or its mirror-image). After san went obsolete, it just happened that the shape of mu evolved to look just like it. Differences between mu and san are modern inventions people use to avoid confusion; the lowercase form of san is apparently a relatively recent invention as well. Cf. [1] —Muke Tever talk 18:47, 10 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article really needs to say that it may look like later Μ (mu) but there was a difference at the time. To me it also looks like a rotated sanserif Σ (sigma). --Rumping (talk) 23:37, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Estruscan letter[edit]

I'm wondering, is it known what sound the Etruscan version of San represented? It's transliterated as an S with an accent, and according to the Ś page, that letter represents a different sound in Polish and some other languages. So I'm a bit confused about that... 151.202.87.133 (talk) 23:32, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is conjectured to have represented [ʃ], see Etruscan language#Consonants. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:37, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

DI‑GAMMA / VAU : Smooth‑breathing & SIGMA / SAN : Rough‑breathing[edit]

off-topic posting duplicated across many talkpages

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Hello, from the Ancient‑Greek studies at dis‑tance, that I have per‑formed in Belgium in 2012, the "Smooth‑breathing" and "Rough‑breathing" serves to in‑dicate & marking the ab‑olition of the archaic letter Di‑gamma Ϝ [v] (Smooth) or Sigma/San Σ/Ϻ [ʃ/s] (Rough) in the word, the Ϝ or Σ/Ϻ can be at beginning or middle, it de‑pend of the position of the breathing.

{Di‑gamma Ϝ {also called ϜΑΥ : vau/vaw} is V be‑cause W was Υ/ΟΥ [u/w] from Phoenician 𐤅 [u], Ϝ don't share shape and sound with Υ / 𐤅, after some‑time Υ be‑came later [y] and [i] in Modern‑Greek ; Pamphylian Digamma/Wau/Waw Ͷ is [w], also Ϝ [v] be‑came Latin F [f], V & F are labio‑dental sound and can be con‑fused, when W & F have nothing in com‑mon, so Latin letter F sound [f] come from Ancient‑Greek letter Ϝ sound [v]...}.

http://www.webtopos.gr/eng/languages/greek/alphabet/earlyletters.htm (Source as V)
http://www.webtopos.gr/eng/languages/greek/alphabet/upsilon.htm (Source as U, W)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digamma#Pamphylian_digamma

In the French pre‑cise book of Ancient‑Greek "Le Grand Bailly" or "Abrégé Bailly" breathing (spirit in French) are re‑pre‑sented in the words and in the de‑finition, in [RAC : racine/root] Section is ad‑ded the original word with Di‑gamma Ϝ or Sigma/San Σ/Ϻ. In older editions of "Le Grand Bailly" or "Abrégé Bailly", the "Table of roots" (which is no longer pre‑sent in the new editions) speci‑fies the list of roots using Di‑gamma Ϝ [v] & Sigma/San Σ/Ϻ [ʃ/s], yet in Wikipedia English or French, no one mention that the "Smooth breathing" and "Rough breathing" was used for Di‑gamma Ϝ & Sigma/San Σ/Ϻ removing, why ??? They talk only about a‑spired H (no one can make a‑spired H be‑fore a RHO, it's im‑possible), so it's wrong... Also In Wiktionary page for Ancient‑Greek words using breathing, the W/V or S/SH is never mentioned in "Archaic pro‑nunciation", like for ex‑ample :

ὙΠΕΡ / HYPER that was originally writed ΣΥΠΕΡ / SHYPER [ʃuper] (Latin : SVPERIOR), or
ἙΞ / HEX → ΣΕΞ / SHEX [ʃeks] (Latin : Six) or
ἘΞ / EX → ϜΕΞ / VEX [veks] (Latin : Ex‑) or
ἘΡΓΟΝ → ϜΕΡΓΟΝ [verg‧on] (English : Work, Dutch : Werk) or
ἩΛΙΟΣ / HELIOS → ΣΗΛΙΟΣ / SHELIOS [ʃɛli‧os] {Attic} (Latin : Sol, Solis, English : Sun) or
ἉΛΙΟΣ/ ALIOS → ΣΑΛΙΟΣ / SHALIOS [ʃali‧os] {Dorian} (Latin : Sol, Solis, English : Sun) or
ΟἸΝΟΣ → ϜΟΙΝΟΣ [vojn‧os] (Latin : VINVM, English : Wine, French : Vin) or
ἈΡΗΣ / ARES → ͶΑΡΗΣ / WARES [warɛs] (God of War, War God, war it‑self personi‑fied) or
ῬΕΩ → ΣΡΕΩ [ʃre‧ɔ] (flow) & ῬΕΩ/ἘΡΩ → ϜΡΕΩ/ϜΕΡΩ [vre‧ɔ/ver‧ɔ] (Speak/Verity/Love) or
ἈΝΑ → ϜΑΝΑ or ΑϜΝΑ [vana / avna].

{I don't use ac‑cent acute / grave in Ancient‑Greek words be‑cause at that time they didn't ex‑ist, also writing Ancient‑Greek word in minuscule is an error, be‑cause at that epoch only capital script with‑out ac‑cent ex‑isted, minuscule should be used only for Modern‑Greek in your Wiktionary or Wikipedia...}. Gmazdên (talk) 12:09, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nemzag, please don't copy this thread across all these many talkpages. If you wish to ask a question, ask it in one place. If you wish to make a suggestion for an article, post only what is relevant to that article. I'm going to answer your posting in one place, let's say at Talk:Digamma; let's please remove it from all those other pages where it doesn't belong. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:31, 29 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No mention of Ehwaz[edit]

Currently, the fact that San resembles the rune Ehwaz in appearance is not mentioned. Should it be added? Thorn (letter) and Sho (letter) articles do mention a similar case about each other.--Adûnâi (talk) 23:04, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Why these images?[edit]

Why does this article feature MSPaint-quality drawings of photographs rather than legitimate photographs? There is no way to tell if these drawings are authentic without including the photograph, so why not just use the photograph, and add the drawing for clarity if the photograph is difficult to see well? Surely the copyright on ancient Phoenician art has expired by now. TricksterWolf (talk) 00:51, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]