Talk:Close-mid front rounded vowel

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Norwegian[edit]

I am no linguist, so I don't think I am bold enough to edit this article, but should't there be something about the difference between the long and short vowel? All the examples are, as far as I can see, of long sounds, while words such as standardized Norwegian Øl (differing from Swedish and German Öl in pronounciation) and my name have short sounds. Cannot think of an English example though. Or is this just a part of the tonality of the Norwegian language? Jørgen 20:22, 24 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think the short vowel is this. And I think the Finnish and Turkish examples also belong there...

David Marjanović david.marjanovic_at_gmx.at 22:28, 31 July 2005 (CET summertime)

As I commented elsewhere, as a native Norwegian, I have not (as far as I can tell) encountered the sound /ø/ and cannot accurately distinguish it (sounds like a dialectal variation of /e/ or /y/ to my ears), at least not if David Jones' recordings are to be taken as a reference. The same goes for a female native speaker with a different dialect from the other end of the country. The letter ø in Norwegian is, as far as I can tell, always represented by the /œ/ sound. However, the page on Norwegian phonology claims it is always /ø/ in standard eastern Norwegian. If anyone could tell me whether this is an error in that article, or in Jones' articulation, I would be very grateful.

In any case, if it does occur, it is as a short sound, not a long one. 88.90.141.132 (talk) 11:40, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Korean[edit]

Is this phoneme also found in Hangeul (notably right there in the name)? I'm thinking of the vowel sound represented by the horizontal line.

No, that would be the close central unrounded vowel. ugen64 18:01, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

=[edit]

Am I right when I believe that no natural language has the close-mid and open-mid front rounded vowels as differetn phonemes? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.230.156.222 (talk • contribs) .

French is said to distinguish the two, for example jeune [ʒœn] (young), vs. jeûne [ʒøn] (a fast). Though the distinction between [œ] and the French shwa [ə] is dissapearing in Canadian dialects. - Io Katai 21:20, 11 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Standard German distinguishes /œ/ as in Hölle from /øː/ as in Höhle; if you want an example without the additional length distinction, I can offer a wide range of Central Bavarian dialects such as mine, where 11 and 12 (Standard: elf, zwölf) are [œf] and [t͡svøf] and vowel length isn't phonemic. David Marjanović (talk) 16:31, 3 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Bavarian can be listed separately in the table here, because it is technically a different language from (Standard) German. How much variation is there within Bavarian? In other words, how representative would it be to list [t͡svøf] as the Bavarian entry? --JorisvS (talk) 16:46, 3 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and added it per WP:Be bold. Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 17:24, 30 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sound samples[edit]

Hi. I think there has been a mistake in the sound samples : the close and the open-mid front rounded vowel seem to have been mixed. the "close" sure sounds more open than the "open" vowel sample. The sound can also be checked with the swedish samples on both wiki pages.

I think the files should be renamed, if such thing is possible. Jotunn (talk) 22:30, 26 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

English example[edit]

In the English word "work" the o sounds like this. I know because I'm taking German, and that was the main example our teacher used when describing the sound in schon (with an umlaut, as in beautiful). 68.58.25.37 (talk) 21:46, 16 January 2010 (UTC)Apollyna[reply]

They do sound similar, but they're actually different vowels. — Æµ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]} 22:15, 16 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I do in fact use this vowel in my English accent - Hull. For example, I pronounce <no> as /nø/. This is backed up in the following article http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/recordings/individual/humberside-hull-barker-gemma.shtml. Wilfaz2000 —Preceding undated comment added 20:14, 5 July 2010 (UTC).[reply]

Character[edit]

Is it the same character, or just a derivative of the Dutch/Norwegian letter? dude1818 (talk) 21:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I imagine the two aren't independent of each other. In Unicode, I believe they are the same. — Æµ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɛ̃ɾ̃ˡi]} 06:53, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dutch (the language spoken in the Netherlands) doesn't use this letter; you probably meant Danish - the language spoken in Denmark. Peter238 (talk) 11:46, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Turkish[edit]

I believe that this vowel also occurs in Turkish, represented by 'ö'. I am no expert so I ask that somebody more knowledgable verify this and add it to the article. ~hb2007 09:28, 16 June 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hb2007 (talk • contribs)

@Hb2007: Turkish has a mid front rounded vowel, not this one. Mr KEBAB (talk) 13:53, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What about Finnish?[edit]

It's not in the list. Finnish_phonology#Vowels — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.2.211.247 (talk) 07:00, 3 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Finnish is not in the list as it uses the mid front rounded vowel not the close-mid one. Stockhausenfan (talk) 02:50, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]