Talk:Diabolo

Traditional Chinese toy

This describes a traditional Chinese toy, but the article didn't mention its origin. Is this about the same thing?

This particular entry used to describe a popular juggling prop. Someone decided to move it under a name of it's old Chinese ancestor. I hope the error will be corrected soon. Chinese yo-yo would be perfect place to describe it's history. I think Diabolo entry (which this was if you look at the history of this item) should describe the modern juggling prop and merely refer to chinese yo-yo. Fizzl

French language?

See the French-language version of this page for more detail

What is that? What about those of us who do not speak French? Why doesn't someone just translate it?

Is this accurate?

"Metal yo-yos can be set on fire"? [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 17:50, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)

I knew I forgot to add something in my last edit. Yes, they can be set on fire but they need a wick and fuel. They also have a tendency to smash, costing the daring juggler about €90. Ouch. —Rory ☺ 17:52, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)

Title should be changed: "Chinese yo-yo" -> "Diabolo"

The origin of what is these days considered almost solely a juggling prop may be China, but "diabolo" is a far more common term than "Chinese yo-yo": Google returns 604,000 hits for "Diabolo" and "4,300" for "Chinese yo-yo".

This is not an east/west divide thing either, as Diarhythm, a prominent Japanese diabolo website, use the term diabolo, not chinese yo-yo. Furthermore, this regards the English entry and in the English speaking world, the term "diabolo" is unequivocally more prominent. User:Jamescole1980

Jamescole1980, please sign your comments. I have done so for you above.

If you look at the Google hits for diabolo, many of them refer to other things. Diabolo also gets hits for various bands, various words in other languages (that is, diabolo is apparently a word in other languages that means something else), misspellings for the video game Diablo, the anime Diabolo, a type of plant, a photometer, etc. I don't think the page should be moved, because "Chinese yo-yo" is unambiguous, while "diabolo" has many meanings. —Lowellian (talk)[[]] 16:30, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for signing for me, I'm a bit of a noob, but enthusiastic about the possibilities of Wikipedia.

You are right in saying that the results of a 'diabolo' google will not solely refer to the prop we are discussing. However, disregarding two thirds or even three quarters of the google results we still have a ratio that clearly demonstrates the prevelance of the term 'diabolo' over 'chinese yo-yo'. I have been in juggling and circus tents at various festivals and we all refer to it as a diabolo. I have participated in numerous juggling events, been present at many juggling club meetings, and without an exception, a diabolo has always been called a diabolo.

We should not choose to alter the name of something simply because it would reduce ambiguity: 1. a thing has a common name and it does not make sense to change it. 2. there are the facilities for disambiguation built into Wikipedia. 3. There is no other diabolo entry in Wikipedia.

'Diabolo' is without doubt the common term for the prop we are discussing and ambiguity is not a valid objection to correcting the name of this entry. Unless there are other ojections or convincing arguments that, in the English speaking world, diabolo is not the common name, then I will move the page.User:Jamescole1980

You forgot to sign again; I've done it for you. As to naming, I completely agree. I've been juggling and diaboloing for years and I've never heard anyone refer to a diabolo as a Chinese yo-yo. Go ahead and move the page at your discretion (or get an admin to do it, since there's a history at diabolo). —Rory ☺ 13:03, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

I still object. —Lowellian (talk)[[]] 22:31, Nov 20, 2004 (UTC)

On what grounds? Ambiguity? That point has been addressed; we have no article on any other meaning for diabolo, nor do we have any requirement for unambiguous article titles. Or do you hold that Chinese yo-yo is a more common name? In that case I'd like you to back that up, because my experience in the juggling community contradicts that. —Rory ☺ 01:29, Nov 21, 2004 (UTC)

Contributor Whoever was the fuckwit who stole the content of entry of Diabolo and changed all 'Diabolo' words into 'Chinese Yo-Yo': Please create your own entry for Chinese Yo-Yo, revert Diabolo entry back to it's former glory and cross-reference those two. Diabolo is a branch of juggling, Chine Yo-Yo is a toy. They are very different in appereance. The picture on this entry shows Diabolos. 90% of the external links refer to Diabolo arts. I wrote much of the original Diabolo entry and resent this article being trashed to 'Chinese Yo-Yo'. If you want to get flamed more, go to rec.juggling to contemplate whether this should be called Diabolo or a Chinese yo-Yo.
Fizzl

Sorry about my very impolite message. I hadn't had my first cup of coffee in the morning. The point stands thou, this should be moved back to Diabolo :)

Fizzl

Contradiction and confusion

Holy hell this page is a mess.

It contradicts itself and confuses people by talking about two different things.

Yes, the chinese yo-yo might be a part of an ethnic dance, but Diabolo is solely a juggling prop.

NO Diabolo is designed to make whistling sound because the loss in aerodynamics defeats the purpose.

Very few of the listed tricks are used in any kind of ethnic dance with Chinese Yo-Yo.

I don't know anyone who performs with actual Chinese yo-Yo's. I know quite a few Diabolo artists thou.

I have never seen anyone juggle multiple Chinese Yo-Yo's.

Diabolo's are pretty much made of rubber and some are made of metal to use them in fire diaboloing. Some chinese yoyo's are made of wood, but no Diabolos.

Does someone want to introduce both items here, or would it be wiser just to split this up?

...I can't believe I have spent 3 days driving this matter now, after months of indifference. Just after reading the latest version I came to realize how much this current article can confuse and mislead people interested in Diabolo or Chinese Yo-Yo.

I volunteer as a chinese yoyo teacher at my local chinese school, and our team does regular performances with chinese yoyo's. Additionally, there are some diabolo/chinese yoyo hybrids that have the whistles of the chinese yoyo put on the inside of the diabolo's plastic bells. It's not a true diabolo by definition, but it looks and generally behaves like one. And it is possible to juggle multiple chinese yoyos. It is significantly harder considering the shape and weight of the yoyo, but I have seen and am able to juggle two chinese yoyos in the same manner as you'd juggle diabolos. L4ck_0f_54n17y

Ok bit of a wiki noob not sure how format and stuff works here so bear with me. Both "diabolist" and "diaboloist" are used in the article. Not sure which is correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.167.235.94 (talk) 21:44, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

New note.... should there be an addition of long/wide bearing, triple bearing, and short bearing axle diabolos? I have seen those before in shops, but don't quite know how to cite those are real things... 21percent (talk) 01:50, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

Moved Chinese yo-yo → Diabolo

Entry for Diabolo was removed and the topic nowadays just redirects to Chinese yo-yo. Chinese yo-yo is not the correct name for the item depicted in the entry. The juggling prop is called Diabolo universally in juggling circles. The original move was probably initiated by an ill-informed newbie to the art. The content of the page has deteroriated as people have been removing stuff which does not relate to Chinese yo-yo (which also looks different). Also the external links and the picture are irrelevant to 'Chinese yo-yo' as they clearly refer to Diabolo. Diabolo and Chinese yo-yo are quite two different things. I propose leaving a new empty entry for Chinese yo-yo which could be used to tell about the particular item. Addition: To see what I mean. Here's a Chinese Yo-Yo and here's a Diabolo. I ask for this change now because I thought someone more proficient with Wikipedia would come to resque and correct the error. -- Fizzl 10:21, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• Support - Initiated by me. I wrote much of the original Diabolo entry. Fizzl 10:21, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Support - I've never heard the item depicted and described in that article refered to as anything but diabolo. —Rory ☺ 11:40, Dec 24, 2004 (UTC)
• Support - I used to juggle diabolos, and I never called it a Chinese yo-yo. Dbenbenn 22:14, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
• Support - I don't think it is fair to characterise the original move as ill-informed. But if different editors are pulling in different directions, it sounds like you may have a case for demerging the article. Diabolo can then concentrate on the juggling and Chinese yo-yo can concentrate on its origins, history, and use in Chinese dance etc. In which case a straight move wouldn't be required. -- Solipsist 10:40, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Merged

I made a merge of content from before the previous move. Also added a boilerplate for history. I have a faint idea of the history, european Diabolo craze and other history related stuff. I want to do some research before adding anything thou. It seems now Chinese yo-yo is redirecting to Diabolo. I thought it would be good if chinese yo-yo had it's own entry because it would have been the perfect place to tell more about the usage of Chinese yo-yo as a toy, in religious use and as a crowd gatherer in market situations.
Fizzl Correction [I don't know anyone who performs with actual Chinese yo-Yo's. I know quite a few Diabolo artists thou. I have never seen anyone juggle multiple Chinese Yo-Yo's.] to the :the thing is, their are plenty of kids who play the chinese yo yo, just chek out a local chinese school and they should have it. My chinese school is proud of our chinese yo yo team, since im part of it. I can tell you that their are plenty of people who play chinese yo yo and plus there is a clear difference between the two toys, so ... The conversation was pointless lol

Which is it?

"commonly misspelled as diablo and mispronounced dia-BO-lo;"

OK, is it mispronounced AS "dia-BO-lo" Or is that a mangle way of saying it should be pronounced that way? If it is, as written, "dia-BO-lo" is incorrect, then what they hell is the correct way? If "dia-BO-lo" is correct how about some punctuation? Here is some to choose from .,!?";: —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.181.253.68 (talk) 05:49, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

It's pronounced di-ab-ol-o. I don't think the quote is ambiguous, but it would make more sense to have the correct pronounciation listed. --BlueNovember (talk) 15:14, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Early photo

Churchh (talk) 22:37, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

This is the Devil - or Demon game

All this info: "The term "diabolo" was not taken from the Italian word for "devil" — "diavolo" — but was coined by French engineer Gustave Phillipart, who developed the modern diabolo in the early twentieth century[1], and derived the name from the Greek dia bolo, roughly meaning 'across throw'. Confusion about the provenance of the name may have arisen from the earlier name "the devil on two sticks", although nowadays this often also refers to another circus-based skill toy, the devil stick."

is pure fantasy.

Diabolo, with the "o" does mean devil. This game was known as devil game before that French person even existed. There is exactly one source of this ridiculous misinformation, at that is one English gentleman who wanted to promote (and perhaps import) the toy in England.

Please show here a source other than British that show that monseur Gustave Phillipart invented the name. Pre "Phillipart" diabolos look exactly the same as today, just look at the damned 1812 picture. Cone shaped and everything. There is even a painting in Denmark titled "Girl playing with DEVIL game" also from 1812, showing a modern double cone diabolo. This is before mr. Phillipart allegedly invented the term diabolo for the toy. He may have called it diabolo, but as it is not his invention, and since it was called devil game everywhere before he was even born, the etymology is quite wrong.

Especially the very absurd throw across, seriously, Diabolo does mean devil. Whether it was an attempt of the French or British guy to hide the true name, I don't know. In the countries where Diabolo/Diavolo/Diablo means “devil”, well, that's what vas was called there. Most places it was know under the "Devil" name in whatever local language there was.

Can't you people see how ridiculous it is that some French engineer suddenly postulates that he named the toy after a dubious Greek terminology, when the toy had been known for hundred years as DEVIL game, Diabolo/Diavolo/Diablo etc?

Regards, Jimenéz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.51.151.79 (talk) 19:49, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

In English, it was known as "the devil on two sticks" in the early nineteenth century... Churchh (talk) 13:19, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

On rereading and checking a few sources, the Gk. dia bolo does have the ring of folk etymology. My ODE says unequivocally from Lat. diabolus devil; dictionary.com says "ORIGIN OF DIABOLO - 1905–10; < Italian: literally, devil". The supposed Gk. can stand for now, since it's sourced (RS?), but the subsection needs to be revised to give proper weight to the better-attested derivation. I'll get to it from my desktop if someone doesn't beat me to it.

It would be useful (tho not definitive) to know if a primary source, Phillpart or Fry, e.g. patent or TM, gives the Gk.. --talk) 18:03, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

I see there is a link to Phillipart's patent. Altho the text is badly garbled in the Google version, Phillipart states "...under the name [missing word, possibly Diabolo]... or Diable,...." Since diable is Fr for devil, case closed. --D Anthony Patriarche (talk) 18:48, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Cleaned up. I have taken out the confusing para about derivation from the Greek; it may be correct as 'deep' etymology, but it has nothing really to do with the coining of the name; interested people can look up diabolus or διάβολος in the appropriate dictionaries. I have clarified the dictionary definition and referred to Phillipart's patent; took out my blockquote which gave undue emphasis to Strong.  Done --D Anthony Patriarche (talk) 04:17, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Chinese yo-yo

See discussion here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Toys#Merge_Chinese_yo-yo_and_Diabolo.3F MatthewVanitas (talk) 23:39, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Removed incorrect footnote

Removed from article as it is a commercially related link with no relevance for this article. Robynthehode (talk) 09:42, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

References

Chinese yoyo

According to [1] diabolo is the European descendant of the Chinese yo-yo.Setenzatsu (talk) 18:37, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Origins?

The German wikipedia says it was invented in the stone age and that the Inuit had the toy. So what is this about Chinese yo-yo. The yo-yo was not originated in China anyhow. Also the etymology seems quite confused if it came from Italian with a "v" how has it not got a "v" in English? Is there a Mondegreen going on here where diabolo is heard as diablo? The whole history sounds not just confused but folk etymology (made up by people into a plausible story). Then there is this - allegedly killed people in Paris so it was banned. Well this is vague - where are the reports / sources of this moral panic? Who was killed / injured in connection with use? All this removes the credibility of the rest of the article. There must be sources in Chinese, Italian, French if these things are so - and some references do appear in the list like this. But none in Chinese and none in Italian. 88.112.31.26 (talk) 06:20, 14 August 2022 (UTC)