Talk:Selim I

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Treasury[edit]

What is this treasury that Selim filled? I can't find anymore information on it. Jarwulf (talk) 02:03, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled[edit]

Hi. Some very notable contemporary Turkish historians (as I recall, Iskender Pala, I'll find out) say that this portrait on this webpage (as of Jan 5th, 2008) does actually belong to Sah Ismail, not Selim. 'Yavuz' means grim, not 'cruel'. I'll be back with some references. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.234.161.203 (talk) 23:35, 5 January 2008 (UTC) Reference (in Turkish): http://www.zaman.com.tr/yazar.do?yazino=623537 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.234.161.203 (talk) 23:37, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In fact 'Yavuz' is better translated as stern, not grim or brave.78.191.95.164 (talk) 22:12, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

sobriquet[edit]

As far as I know, as a Turk, Selim I had no sobriquet but "Yavuz" that never means cruel. I don't think that a man trying to protect his faith, his land, and his power against the opponents, the rioters, etc. can be more cruel than, for example, conquistadors like Pizarro "roasting", cutting the natives of the American continents into pieces.

I cannot speculate much on the meaning of "yavuz" during Selim's time, but it is known that it did not have the positive meaning it has today. Do not take my comment wrong, I am an avid fan of Yavuz, but this should not restrain us from stating this. --Fethi --.

Traditionally, English writers translated Yavuz Selim as "Selim the Grim" and while this is not particularly accurate, it's common enough to mention. "Stern" and "steadfast" are also used and I think "stern" is probably the closest. Translations in French and German wikipedia are all over the place too. It's a little like the question of how to translate the cognomen of Ivan IV of Russa: "Grozny Ivan" is traditionally Ivan the Terrible, but I'm told the Russian denotes awe as much as condemnation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.2.5.179 (talk) 19:14, 11 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Qala'un Mosque[edit]

Selim I raided the Citadel of Cairo and carried of the marble dado from the walls of the great Qala'un Mosque to Istanbul. This may be a nice factoid to add to the article; I'm not adding it myself since I don't feel I can judge if it is notable enough. — mark ✎ 17:55, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Rhodes[edit]

What is the source for his last campaign being against Rhodes? As far as I know, the destination is not known.Fethi 7 July 2005 21:58 (UTC)

Yes he died during the preparations of the campaing. Turkish view defends that Selim I was planning to conquer the west but not a specific place is mentioned. With respect, Deliogul 20:51, 6 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Its most likely to Hungary or Italy (as his grandfather who died enroute to Rome) but after crushing Mamlukes both would be useless for someone like him (who loves gold which europe doesn't have). So Very rich Persia under Redhead (shia) Azeri control can be considered as another possible target but who knows...

The Painting[edit]

I remember reading that the current painting is not actually Yavuz, even though it is known to be so in Turkey. Does anyone have first hand info about the issue, and where we can find a real painting if this is not?Fethi 20:02, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

As I know the painting is Shah Ismail, the arc rival of Selim I. With respect, Deliogul 21:45, 3 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into Selim Bulut?[edit]

I am strongly against such an action. As a Turk, I have never heard or read anything that would suggest in the smallest way that Selim I was related to somebody named Selim Bulut. The usual Turkish reference to him is "Yavuz Sultan Selim". See for yourself: A search on Google for ""selim bulut" (ottoman OR osmanli)" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22selim+bulut%22+%28ottoman+OR+osmanli%29&btnG=Search) returned six results, five seemingly related to Wikipedia. The other web site belongs to the business of some Selim Bulut, situated on the Osmanli Street in Ankara. On the other hand, searching for ""yavuz sultan selim" (ottoman OR osmanli)" returns 13,500 results. As expected, there seem to be no reference to "bulut" on these pages. Take http://www.theottomans.org/english/family/selim1.asp, http://www.turizm.net/turkey/history/ottoman2.html, http://i-cias.com/e.o/s09-selim1.htm, or http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0844358.html for example.

By the way, "bulut" means "cloud" in Turkish. You could search for that as well. I did. "Selim the Cloud" retuns zero results (remember that the Ottomans did not have surnames, thus "Bulut" can not be the surname of Sultan Selim). -- Yagiz

Ottomans had family names (surnames) till reign of Murad I who used Osmanli instead of kaya (or mis spelled as kayı) which they preserved from their asena ancestors.But of course Bulut has nothing to do with house of Osman.

It is Selim Bulut that is to be merged into this article, not the other way around. /The Phoenix 15:33, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Myself, and the other individuals that have appealed against the removal of Selim Buluts article do not wish for it to be merged within this one.

Selim 1 bears no relationship or similarities whatsoever with Selim Bulut, as Selim Bulut is as explained a fictional character.

There are numerous crude searches on Wikpedia, and Selim Bulut's entry was 100% genuine, and I, and the inhabitants of North east Lincolnshire would greatly appreciate an article of its own.

- Jim


Ahello. I myself originate from a small rural village near to 'Grimsby' in the North East and my grandfather once owned a copy of 'Selim'. Now, come on, are we really here to question whether a book existed or not?? Is that possible? For me, the only proof that it exists is people who have SEEN it! I have SEEN it, in my grandfathers old home when I was younger. To me, this proves that it is REAL! How can it not be? Frankly, I fail to see how you can dismiss something purely on the fact that you haven't seen it, especially if it is 3, 000 miles away!

- Arthur

Portrait[edit]

The person in the portrait is not Selim I but Shah Ismail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Orhanoglu (talk • contribs)

-Did you see both just because of the ear ring you say it but the drawing shows a genune ottoman family member that you can trace similarities from murad I to Hamit II

There is little mistake on the first phrase. "Selim I (October 10, 1465 – September 22, 1520); also known as "the Grim" or "the Brave", (Yavuz in Turkish; Arabic: سليم الأول) was the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire from 1512 to 1520

سليم الأول -------> This is arabic, it is written Selîm el-Evvel. That means "Selim the First" not Yavuz.

I've changed the portrait from the fake to the real one. The old one was a fake, many researches say, that the old picture is a picture of Shah Ismail of Iran. Because he has a shia hat and an iranian ornament. Wearing an earring is not the Ottoman style, but its sawn good by the shia. The picture was brought 1926 to the Topkapi Saray. - JIRAKTAR

Selim wrote Racist Poems About Kurds? What a load of rubbish[edit]

Who included the comment about Selim being a racist Kurd hater? were are the sources to back this nonsense up, which poem is this in I wonder.


Actually Selim didn't like Kurds at all and he smashed some of their tribes on his way to Egypt. Here is a poem by Yavuz Sultan Selim about Kurds (If you know Turkish, you will understand);

Kürde fırsat verme ya Rabb, dehre sultan olmasın.

Ayağın sıksın çarık asla iflah olmasın

Vur sopayı al ekmeği, karnı bile doymasın

Ol çeşmeden gavur içsin, Kürde nasip olmasın

I think you get it. Deliogul 13:20, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This one is not racist but it is great;
cümle âlem dir bana hep senündür bu cihân
kâfirem ger var-ısa içinde bir taşum benüm
See you, Deliogul 22:08, 8 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]


There is no credible source whatsoever for this alleged anti-Kurdish poem. In fact, there are political movements of Selim which took many Kurdish groups and tribes as allies. Besides, the definition and perception of nation and race were quite different from what we deem them to be today.

More info..[edit]

...(much more) could be found at the Mehmed-paša Sokolović article. --PaxEquilibrium 22:52, 5 February 2007 (UTC) Subscript text[reply]

Yavuz[edit]

"Yavuz" is a mixture of both negative and positive specifications. The article shows it by using the adjectives brave and grim. Usage of brave is true as Yavuz means the brave person who never gives up but the usage of grim is debatable because it also means ugly-bad looking person. On the other hand, "ferocious" can explain the dark side of the Selim better. As wild and cruel as an animal that hunts. Deliogul 21:43, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, it is absolutely the same with Ivan the Terrible whose monicker, according to some authors, was explicitly modeled on that of Selim. "Yavuz" is traditionally translated in Russian as grozny (i.e., "terrible"). --Ghirla-трёп- 20:22, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Call for an expert[edit]

In section Life we read that "Selim's mother was Ayşe Hatun, from Dulkadir". (Turkish Wikipedia also says she is from Dulkadir.) The name Ayşe Hatun is linked. But in the article Ayşe Hatun we read that "she was an ethnic Greek from the a village near Trabzon, originally named Maria." Dulkadir was a Oghuz principality and it was situated in south Turkey. Trabzon is on the other hand a Black Sea port. There is a contradiction between the two claims. Which is right ? Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 09:12, 28 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Portrait[edit]

There has been a number of talks about the image. The image added by IP no. 195 240 250 105 is a good portrait. But I am afraid it doesn't belong to Selim. I'll call the contributer. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 10:02, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

what do you mean? that must be Selim I as far as I know. 195.240.250.105 (talk) 18:31, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • I remember reading about this discussion several years ago. You can see the earrings on the image. Selim I was a devoted religionist and had been reputed for being plain clothed . How could he have earrings. The image may belong to his number one enemy Ismail I. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 12:23, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Nedim Ardoga, lets first find a clear source about this, that isnt Ismail I unless a source says so. http://www.maxihayat.net/maxiforum/soru-cevap/97644-yavuz-sultan-selim-neden-kupe-takardi.html?language=en Redman19 (talk) 15:10, 14 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"......Shah Ismail had a "Kurdish"!!!!????? this interesting.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.224.247.206 (talk) 15:47, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Newman, Andrew J., Safavid Iran: Rebirth of a Persian Empire, (I.B. Tauris & Co. Ltd., 2006), 152; "...concluded the Safavids were Kurdish in origin.". --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:16, 9 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This portrait which is in the Turkish wikipedia is much better than the current one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Yavuz_Sultan_I._Selim_Han.jpg 94.123.216.63 (talk) 23:45, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The poem under chapter "Personality"[edit]

It has been written in the text that :"...Selim was also a distinguished poet who wrote both Turkish and Persian...In one of his poems, he wrote : A carpet is large enough to accommodate two sufis, but the world is not large enough for two kings.— Yavuz Sultan Selim".

Just want to say the original poem is from Saadi Shirazi , in Gulistan , chapter I , Story 3 ; as follows :

Ten dervishes may sleep under the same blanket but that one country cannot hold two padshahs

--Alborz Fallah (talk) 17:28, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Sirpence[edit]

Although there's an explanation of what the disease 'sirpence' was, the link simply redirects to the article on anthrax, and so does every definition of the word I've found on the Internet. Many of the hits for 'sirpence' are in fact typos for 'sixpence' (the former British coin). So perhaps the word should be replaced here by 'anthrax', the link changed, and the reference to the leatherworkers' disease removed. I'm a fairly well-read native speaker of English and I'd never heard of 'sirpence'. Perhaps it's 16th-century English, but if so that means it's archaic. I also wondered if it was a Turkish word (it could be, pronounced 'seer-pen-JEH'), but the Turkish words for anthrax are 'şarbon' (borrowed from French 'charbon') or 'antraks'.213.127.210.95 (talk) 13:57, 16 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Old page history[edit]

Some old page history that used to be a the title "Selim I" can now be found at Talk:Selim I/Old history. Graham87 12:51, 29 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Selim I#Family[edit]

@Alivardi: It is already stated in the infobox that Üveys Pasha is one of his sons ! Regarding the infant sons, they are referenced in the Turkish version, but the refs are in Turkish, either way English readers can not follow the main source ! UniSail2 (talk) 23:44, 1 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

​ A non-English source is better than no source at all (see WP:NOENG). Just copy in the citations from the Turkish Wiki and I'll consider my concerns addressed. Thanks.
Alivardi (talk) 00:12, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

true picture of sultan yavuz selim[edit]

true picture of sultan yavuz selim no crown no earrings or similar --88.152.246.13 (talk) 10:10, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This is Suleiman, not Selim. Beshogur (talk) 12:30, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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