Talk:Simeon I of Bulgaria

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Featured articleSimeon I of Bulgaria is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
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March 14, 2007Peer reviewReviewed
March 26, 2007Featured article candidatePromoted
On this day...Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on August 20, 2004, August 20, 2005, August 20, 2006, August 20, 2007, May 27, 2017, August 20, 2020, and August 20, 2022.
Current status: Featured article

Most powerful monarch[edit]

Hello I have a comment on this quote: "Having become the most powerful monarch in eastern Europe, ". I believe that at the time Simeon was at his apogee there were only two empires in Europe at all that powerful. These were the Empire of Franks and Bulgarian Empire. So the fact is that Simeon was not only a regional power. He was an European power too.

I agree. Simeon's empire ruled a substantial part of Europe and that's why Bulgaria was, for a short term, an European power. There was a second period in Bulgarian history when the country was an European power: during the last ten years of Ivan Asen II's reign (he ruled 1218-1241). Bulgaria was in charge of the Adriatic, Aegean and Black sea (1231-41). --webkid 13:22, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)


It is funny how we measure things by when a country was a major power but surely, that's how you got noticed these days :) I must add Krum's rule and the one of Kaloyan as just as big. Krum's territory was vast and his reputation terrifying. Kaloyan was a well known statesman both in the East and in the West - crusaders, the Pope's delegations, etc. (Kaloyan)

Major grammatical error![edit]

In the first paragraph, it should be "contemporaneous" not "contemporary" unless you wish to assert that the king made Bulgaria the most powerful eastern European state TODAY. -gfw

Fixed it. Didn't think i could edit a front page article. -gfw

Front page articles are usually unprotected as a matter of policy in order to attract new users to the "encyclopedia that everyone can edit". Being front page also attracts a lot of vandal fighters that help keep the vandalism down. But everything else on the main page is protected, including all templates (whcih are cascade protected to boot!) and images. Shinhan 07:27, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's not a grammatical error, and I don't think it's major :) As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure "contemporary" can be used that way, or at least I've seen it used that way. I'm not a native speaker. Todor→Bozhinov 09:18, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bulgaria's Greatest Expansion?[edit]

The claim that "Simeon's successful campaigns against the Byzantines, Magyars and Serbs led Bulgaria to its greatest territorial expansion ever" may be untrue. According to Prof. Bozhidar Dimitrov, the Director of Bulgaria's National History Museum, the nation's greatest territorial expansion came during the reign of Tsar Samuil. --Vladko 06:34, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A perfectly reliable source has been cited, so don't call it a "claim". I don't think I have to explain to you that this is the consensus among Bulgarian historians. Not sure what data Dimitrov is relying on, but although Bulgaria may have extended somewhat further west-southwest under Samuil, it had lost Thrace to Byzantium and almost certainly didn't control the vast territory north of the Danube that Simeon did. There are maps — take a look :) Best, Todor→Bozhinov 09:18, 27 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think that in this case we have no "perfectly reliable source", simply because the primary historical evidence (narrative, archaeological, etc.) is too fragmentary. There is a thesis by a researcher, Hristo Dimitrov, that as a result of the Simeon's wars with the Hungarians Bulgaria lost the region between the Danube, Tisza and the Carpathians. Other scholars claim that these territorial losses occurred either much earlier, or during the reign of tsar Peter, son of Simeon.--Dobrin (talk) 00:53, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Conquest of Serbia[edit]

Prince Ceslav wasn't even invited to the meeting in which the Serbian nobility was supposed to bow before him. --PaxEquilibrium (talk) 13:44, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Illustration caption[edit]

The caption under the first drawing in the "Anti-Magyar Campaign"-section was incorrectly stating that the drawing shows the Magyars defeating the Bulgarians, whereas the description of the image file says that it shows the Bulgarians defeating the Byzantines. I have therefore changed this.193.190.253.147 (talk) 00:07, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Contradictory dates[edit]

Simeon I of Bulgaria#War with Croatia and death places the Battle of the Bosnian Highlands in 926, but Croatian–Bulgarian battle of 927 and Croatian–Bulgarian Wars both have that battle as 27 May 927, the same day as Simeon's death. Obviously since he was still alive after the battle for some time to make negotiations and whatnot, something is out of whack here. howcheng {chat} 16:43, 26 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Solved. Please see this. I removed the tag and corrected both articles. José Luiz talk 19:56, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The page names of the battles, listing 927 as the date, should be corrected to avoid this confusion. Here is a cite to Fine to facilitate these moves: John V.A. Fine, The Early Medieval Balkans: A Critical Survey from the Sixth to the Late Twelfth Century (1991), pg. 157. Here is a link to the text. Laszlo Panaflex (talk) 20:30, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

File:A Fine Lead Seal of Simeon I Veliki (Simeon the Great), Tsar of Bulgaria (893-927 C.E.), a Testimony of the Byzantine Influence on the Bulgarian Court.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

An image used in this article, File:A Fine Lead Seal of Simeon I Veliki (Simeon the Great), Tsar of Bulgaria (893-927 C.E.), a Testimony of the Byzantine Influence on the Bulgarian Court.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests April 2012
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Unidentified artwork[edit]

This image claims to depict Serbian prince Zaharija and Simeon. Who is the author?--Zoupan 22:35, 25 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Lead seal inscription[edit]

The seal used as an illustration is said to have the inscription of [M]P [ΘV] across field / [+]MΛIΛ[...]MO[...]. What's the source of that? I only read [...]ΛΓΑΡ[...]С[...] on the reverse. Iamnhaz (talk) 15:54, 25 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

New map added.[edit]

Map of Bulgaria's greatest territorial extent during the reign of Simeon I[1]

This map is out of date. It was published more then 100 years ago. Its accuracy is doubtful. Its original description reads: Nearly all possessions on the other side of the Danube had already been severed from the Bulgarian Empire during the first years of reign of the renowned ruler of the Bulgarians, Simeon (893—027). This is very strange claim, more by Simeon, the First empire gained its maximal extend. Please, do not reload it. Thank you. Jingiby (talk) 14:42, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Simeon I lose all areas northern than Danube after the Hungarian invasion in 896. Transylvania and Panonia was conquered by Magyars, Wallachia - by Pechenegs. De administratio imperii by Constantine Porphirogenetes shows Pechenegs living northern than Silistra. This map is more correct, because is giving the teritorial losese after 896. According to the map of medieval Bulgaria in "Europe. A History" by Norman Davies, cited here Bulgaria do not rule any lands northern than Danube under Simeon I.

I am not sure. According to a specialized book, written by an expert of that issue: Richard Crampton a historian whose work has focused especially on Bulgaria; "A Concise History of Bulgaria", Cambridge University Press; p. 12. exposes another view. Jingiby (talk) 15:49, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Per Raymond Detrez's "Historical Dictionary of Bulgaria": Under Simeon's successor, Petûr (927–970), Bulgaria lost the territories north of the Danube. Jingiby (talk) 16:50, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Steven Runciman is also a historian, who knows Bulgarian history, but he brought teritorial loses to Simeon' s rule by his work "First Bulgarian Empire". Laszlo Kontar in "History of Hungary" (ISBN 978-954-320-239-3) think Simeon lose Transylvania in 896. The same thing Rasho Rashev said in "Българската езическа култура VII - IX в." where Bulgaria lost these lands in 896. Rashev said "Отслабените позиции на България в средноденонощните земи довели до загубването им в края на 9 в. Връзката с Централна Европа била прекъсната. България се затворила в балканската си рамка, където се криел ключът към нейното оцеляване" (cite "Bulgarian pagan culture VII - IX" in Bulgarian)--151.251.246.231 (talk) 18:05, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Please see: map №2 "Scheme for the Structure of the Bulgarian State in IX-X century" in the book "Political Geography of the Medieval Bulgarian State, Part I. From 681 to 1018", Petar Koledarov, Sofia, 1979, Publishing House of the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences. There are marked with prick line (---) the borders ca. 904, and they are far north from the Danube. [1]. Jingiby (talk) 18:16, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Koledarov is not a good source. --151.251.246.231 (talk) 18:28, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Per Dennis P. Hupchick's Palgrave Concise Historical Atlas of Eastern Europe's map, under Symeon, the Magyars wrestled permanently all Bulgarian territories north of Danube, but did not conquer them. Jingiby (talk)
Euroatlas is giving Bulgaria without these lands [2]--151.251.246.231 (talk) 04:51, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Euratlas is not academic publication. Jingiby (talk) 05:09, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yordan Vasilev think: "Отвъддунавска България не представлява интерес за него. Населението там не е покръстено, в нея не е установено административно управление, каквото е съществувало в земите южно от Дунав. Поради това там българската власт до голяма степен е формална. Когато през 906 г. Симеон въвежда редовна наборна войска, това не засяга отвъддунавските територии.

Доколко Симеон е изгубил интерес към тях личи от факта, че за да отклони маджарите и печенезите като съюзници на Византия, той им дава обширни територии, в които да се настанят, въпреки че в тях живеят славяни и прабългари. Така средното поречие на Днестър, Банат и Източна Панония отпадат от територията на българската държава. Тя вече не граничи с франкската. " (cite in Bulgarian)- [3]--151.251.246.231 (talk) 05:16, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

See the sources under the new map. There are works by reliable names like Norman Davies, Florin Curta, John Fine, etc. --151.251.246.231 (talk) 05:24, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Link to the map of Norman Davies "Europe. A History". See the Bulgarian borders under Simeon, page 1245 -[4]--151.251.246.231 (talk) 05:45, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think that the issue was decided. I have made clarification, describing the frontiers north from Danube more accurate. Regards. Jingiby (talk) 04:29, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Davies, Norman (1997). Europe. A History. London: Oxford University Press. p. 1251. ISBN 954-427-663-7.
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