Talk:Samuel de Champlain

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The Featured Picture[edit]

The (I'm assuming) contemporary doodle of a soldier wielding a gun, i don't understand it. Is it supposed to be the only reliable representation of Champlain's? It just seems odd, but I'd like to learn it's story. Rhubarbish (talk) 07:58, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, according to the French version of this page, this picture is an enlargement of a engraving made after a picture draw by Champlain himself and named "Défaite des Yroquois au Lac de Champlain (1609)" (defeat of the Mohawks on Lake Champlain), published in 1613.

Another Edit Request[edit]

Under improving administration, can you add the date of Champlain's capitulation, 14 September 1629, which aids in understanding he had held for two months while expending his options68.37.168.37 (talk) 06:50, 24 June 2016 (UTC).[reply]

Young Man?[edit]

According to the article, he was born in 1567, and began exploring in North America "while still a young man" in 1608. How could a 41 year old in the 17th century be described as a "young man"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.97.224.50 (talk) 17:08, 3 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The bio sidebar says he died at the age of 55 in 1635 and was born in 1567. This adds up to 68 years. is his birth year wrong or his age when he died? - Jack Klinker —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.102.112.242 (talk) 01:04, 1 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

 Done - Removed "while still a young boy" since, as noted, he was 37 at the time. Bobsd (talk) 04:46, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request[edit]

Done {{Edit semi-protected}} I have had an external link on the Samuel de Champlain page for the past 2 years

A complete map of the exploration routes of Samuel de Champlain: Map of Samuel de Champlain voyages http://www.travel-vermont.net/2008/09/map-samuel-de-champlain-voyages-travels/

As you can see by following the link, I have recently moved that map to http://www.kristinsawyer.com/2011/01/champlain-travels/

Can you change the link? Thanks so much Carrousel (talk) 17:03, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Moved it for you. Ariel. (talk) 07:18, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

File:CW Jefferys The Order of Good Cheer.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

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minor edit[edit]

Just want to say that "under the guidance of François Gravé Du Pont,[2][3] From 1604 to 1607 Champlain" should be a period, not a question mark. Im a new user and didn't know what to do when I saw the padlock. Thanks to whoever can fix this. Prettybirdie (talk) 00:50, 27 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Done - at some point prior to today Bobsd (talk) 04:50, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

exploration of the great lakes[edit]

the article on Champlain mentions that he explored the great lakes when in fact, i believe in was done by Etienne Brule. the wikipedi article on this man does say that he was the first Europeon to explorer 4 of the 5 great lakes, etc, etc. what lead me to this error was a history book written by, William R. Clark, "explorers of the World". The History Press, publisher for the American Museum of Natural History, a division of Doubleday & Company, Inc. printed in 1964. On page 95 in reads, "Now, in the early 17th century, he (referring to Jacques Cartier) was followed by Samuel de Champlain, who in 1608 founded Quebec and begun a long series of explorations in to the interior. Between 1608 and 1621 companion of Champlain, named Etienne Brule, reached and explored the great lakes - Huron in 1611 , Ontario in 1615, and Superior in 1621."

just questioning the article giving Champlain the recognition instead of Etienne.

thanks all — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.166.78.128 (talk) 18:34, 11 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This was a very good question, yet, years go by and still not so much as mention of Étienne Brûlé on Champlain's page, despite:
1610s in Canada: "1610: Etienne Brule lives among Huron and is first European to see Lakes Ontario, Huron and Superior."
Étienne Brûlé: "In 1615, they met again at Huronia. There, Brûlé informed Champlain of his adventures and explorations through North America. Brûlé explained that he was joined by another French interpreter by the name of Grenolle. He reported that they travelled along the north shore of what they called la mer douce (the calm sea), now known as Lake Huron, and went as far as the great rapids of Sault Ste. Marie where Lake Superior enters Lake Huron."
Finally, today, we fixed it. RFT42 (talk) 22:59, 7 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

His baptismal record[edit]

The Montreal Gazette of Saturday 2013-05-18, page A8, reports that French archivists have found Samuel's Huguenot protestant baptismal record. He was born on Friday 1574-08-13. The certificate will be on display in the Canadian Museum of Civilization in Gatineau. The whole article Samuel de Champlain can now, or soon, be updated accordingly. Peter Horn User talk 15:33, 18 May 2013 (UTC) Peter Horn User talk 15:46, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A possible problem: (in French) Journal le Soleil, April 15, 2012, p.2; (in French) Champlain (de), Samuel, Fichier Origine, record updated on 2012-05-05 – with references. Note: The baptism act does not contain information about the age of Samuel, neither his birthdate or his place of birth. Peter Horn User talk 16:27, 18 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Biography[edit]

The link below sends you to a Samuel de Champlain biography from Biography.com:

http://www.biography.com/people/samuel-de-champlain-9243971 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.236.202.156 (talk) 23:22, 25 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 5 September 2014[edit]

"He was born on or before August 13, 1570 according to a recent baptism record" should read He was born on or before August 13, 1574 according to a recent baptism record 98.240.192.43 (talk) 11:14, 5 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

 Done - Thanks for pointing that out

External links modified[edit]

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Children[edit]

Faith, Hope and Charity were native children given to Champlain as partial reparation for two murders of French settlers which was an ongoing issue; Champlain was in return obliged to release three hostages he was holding to coerce the natives to turn in one of the two perpetrators. By the time that the Kirkes occupied Quebec, Charity had returned to her own people (she was 17 or 18 by then); Champlain himself was taken off to England and it was a sore point of negotiated terms that the Kirkes would not allow Faith and Hope to stay with him. Their fate is unknow; however, it is fairly probable they were taken by French who remained in Quebec (based on previous events). [1] Gerald RW (talk) 01:39, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Champlain - Joe C.W. Armstrong

Lost astrolabe - journey to Nipissing territory.[edit]

There is something basically wrong/confusing with this story. First an instrument thought to be Champlain's lost astrolabe was reportedly found near Cobden Ontario yet Champlain's last latitude reading on the west shore of the Ottawa River was 46.4 which is much farther north of that and according to Champlain the trip continued westward after the last reading i.e. he did not go south and then north again and he was not likely to have made such a large error: 0.8 degree when his average error was 0.2 degree. Of course, stuff happens but this seems unlikely. One possibility is that he lost it elsewhere and someone else later carried it to where it was found.

The second problem is that 46.4 degrees puts the departure point from the Ottawa north of Mattawa River which is commonly assumed to be the 'Champlain Canoe Route'. In any case, Champlain's kvetching about the effort of overland travel doesn't jive: I've canoed that route upstream once with a wife and 7 year old in the canoe and again with just 12 and 10 year olds and didn't find it as taxing as many other canoe trips. Farther north there are other opportunities to go west involving several difficult portages and entering Lake Talon well above the chutes which was reputedly a dangerous Nipissing 'toll gate' thanks to the small box canyon ending (at that time) in a waterfall with steep and narrow portage. Champlain later determined that the Nipissing were less fearsome than he had been lead to believe but it is clear that his guides at time were quite fearful of them (and Champlain was forced to pay a substantial toll when he subsequently encountered Nipissing near the mouth of the French River); consequently, the taxing 'overland' route following a number of lakes and streams may have been thought to be a safer option. Geographically, the land along the lower Mattawa is much more hospitable and likely more inhabited as compared to that a bit further north which is pretty rugged (personal experience). This would be analogous to the Coldwater carry where common practice was to go overland from The Narrows (Orillia) rather than out of the north end of Lake Couchiching where the Nipissing were said to have outposts. Gerald RW (talk) 02:28, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Henry IV's son?[edit]

It seems several historians believe this chap to be the illlegitimate son of the king. Shouldn't this be discussed in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.181.3.20 (talk) 17:55, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Marriage[edit]

Just wondering how reliable the information is on Champlain receiving permission to consummate his marriage before 14 years old? Wikipedia is the only reference i can find to it and it is very vague "Apparently, he did." The reference included in the page I could not find. If I look to Helene's page, it makes no reference to that. It also states the marriage contract was until age 14? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helene_Boull%C3%A9 Has this information been verified.

Thank You, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oreeya (talk • contribs) 20:55, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I found the item from the original reference (http://www.paraphilias.nyc/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Peer-Comment.pdf pg 3) and a YF author who mentioned it in 2017,(http://karencardno.com/index.php/2017/09/17/just-cant-get-over-this-information/?unapproved=212&moderation-hash=b111f3732593ce9dec1a716694976ba9#comment-212 Karen Cardno) and that's it. (I wrote in her comments, asking for the source.) RFT42 (talk) 23:11, 7 April 2019 (UTC) ("comment is awaiting moderation" still. 30-4-19 RFT42 (talk) 01:42, 1 May 2019 (UTC))[reply]

Delete inauthentic portrait?[edit]

What does anyone think of deleting a portrait noted as "inauthentic" from this page? Shouldn't we remove it from the pages it falsely graces? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Samuel-de-champlain-s.jpg RFT42 (talk) 05:26, 4 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Moxy, I am new to Wikipedia and now wonder if TALK is not used. RFT42 (talk) 04:50, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Good day....yes we use these pages just had no clue you posted.....ping works well though. The reason we use it is because all most even bio ever made used it. We are simply here to regurgitating what reliable sources use..... use the most recognizable image even if it might not be him. It's not our job to fix mistakes....but we can point them out as we do in the caption.--Moxy 🍁 05:00, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Moxy Hi. I think the ping thing might only work when you already know whose interested and since your name is nowhere else on this page, I really had no clue. I figured the TALK page is for everyone whose interested, but it was not effective for me. I personally don't think it's best to perpetuate an error that's already been corrected by reliable sources, better to regurgitate what reliable sources deem correct, even when the mistake has been so frequently repeated in the past, as you mentioned it was. I think that editors do fix mistakes on Wikipedia every day. The Wikimedia page says "Inauthentic depiction of Champlain, by Théophile Hamel (1870)... No authentic portrait of Champlain is known to exist." So, why even include it in an encyclopedia? I don't think "all most every bio" using an inauthentic portrait is really a good reason to ignore the reliable sources declaring it inauthentic, and add it to an encyclopedia, unless it accompanies a discussion of inauthentic portraits of the subject, maybe? The one used here seems to quote this 2013 book, word for word, though not credited, and states that it's "Possibly from the Collection of the Governor General of Canada, La Citadelle, Québec" on Wikimedia. https://books.google.ca/books?id=WPc1DgAAQBAJ&pg=PA121.RFT42 (talk) 05:32, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 20 January 2020[edit]

In the sentence below, change "demanded that Champlain help them" to "sought Champlain's help"

"These tribes demanded that Champlain help them in their war against the Iroquois, who lived farther south"

Champlain explains that he "wish to help them against their enemies." It was hardly a demand on him.

you can read his account here: https://archive.org/details/worksofsamueldec02chamuoft/page/68 216.154.0.142 (talk) 01:26, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Done OhKayeSierra (talk) 04:56, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Colleges named after Champlain[edit]

the one in Peterboroush (Trent University) is named. Others are in Sherbrooke (Champlain Regional College), St-Lambert, and there is St Laurent as well — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.186.70.154 (talk) 19:24, 28 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:47, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Unsourced material[edit]

Below information was tagged for needing sources long-term. Feel free to reinsert with appropriate references. DonIago (talk) 21:13, 29 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Founding of Quebec
On July 3, 1608, Champlain landed at the point of Quebec and set about fortifying the area by the erection of three main wooden buildings, each two stories tall, that he collectively called the Habitation, with a wooden stockade and a moat 12 feet (4 m) wide surrounding them. This was the very beginning of what is now Quebec City. Gardening, exploring, and fortifying this place became great passions of Champlain for the rest of his life.

Upon foundation of Quebec, a conspiracy, started by a locksmith (Jean Duval) had formed to kill Champlain, in order to deliver the fort to the Spaniards or the Basques. Champlain, learning of the plot from one of the conspirators (Antoine Natal) apprehended the four involved and put the conspirators on trial under a Tribunal. On their eventual confession, the Tribunal (including Champlain) had Duval hanged, and the remaining conspirators returned to France on 18 September, 1608.

In the 1620s, the Habitation at Quebec was mainly a store for the Compagnie des Marchands (Traders Company), and Champlain lived in the wooden Fort Saint Louis newly built up the hill (south from the present-day Château Frontenac hotel), near the only two houses built by the two settler families (the ones of Louis Hébert and Guillaume Couillard, his son-in-law).

Missing fortified village east of the Oswego river[edit]

The missing fortified village in debate I found a very likely location for it. It is located east of Oneida Lake a few miles east of Rome NY and south of Floyd NY. It is situated on the elbow of Nine Mile Creek. It has a Diamond shaped rampart walls and was surrounded by a moat opposite from the creek. Even holders of a dam to flood the most are visible. You can still see it on Google earth. Look for a green tree lined C in the area I described. I tried 17 years ago to get some proper archeological authority to investigate, including contacting the Oneida tribal historian, but no one would listen to me The last time I looked it appears to have been damaged with on side of the ramparts plowed out. I wish it would get the protection it needed before it’s totally destroyed. It’s there and is the fortified village the French and their Allie’s failed in their siege. I am positive of this. 2600:1011:B199:F1DF:80AC:8E8D:AD06:6E3A (talk) 14:59, 27 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Iroquois/Haudenosaunee[edit]

The article switches from the first to the second word (which both refer to the same people) without any explanation. WmDKing (talk) 22:22, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Founder of New France?[edit]

Currently the article states he was the founder of New France. Considering there were 10 Lieutenants General of New France and Governors of New France before him, this seems to be very subjective. Granted, many of his predecessors were not very active in their roles, some were. I believe it is best to remove this statement, since it seems very disputable. It would be better to be more factual and state that he was Governor of New France from 1632 to 1635. HISTORBUFF (talk) 18:44, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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