Talk:List of Slovak poets

Constantine was not a Slovak!!!!!! Slovak people do not exist in the 9th century!!! Constantine was a Greek!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sándor Petőfi, as the comment replacing his dates next to his name here identifies him, was indeed a Hungarian poet and, according to many, a great one, too. Whether he was a Magyarized Slovak, as the commentator would have us believe, depends on what is to be meant by the curious term "Magyarize". If it means, as Webster's definition of the term suggests, that he was "put under the domination or influence of Magyars” (“Magyar” meaning, in accordance with Webster's relevant entry, Hungarian), then the description of Petőfi as a great Hungarian poet and a Magyarized Slovak is either contradictory or redundant, depending on the component of Webster’s meaning attributed to the term “Magyarize”. If Petőfi allowed himself, knowingly or unknowingly, to be “dominated” by Hungarians (or by Austrians, Czechs, Slovaks or Laplanders) while writing poem after poem to sing the praises of liberty, personal as well as national, then he was either a foolish or a hypocritical poet, but certainly not a great one. If, however, his Magyarization involved being influenced by Hungarians, then the comment does no more than state the obvious: as a devoted disciple of Hungary’s foremost Romantic poet Mihály Vörösmarty, the best friend of that country’s leading pre-Modern poet János Arany and, most importantly, an admirer of his country Hungary’s native idiom and folk poetry (one only has think of János vitéz, or John the Valiant, his long narrative poem based on Hungarian fairy-tale motifs), he can hardly have been anything but “influenced” by the Hungarians. (That this influence was fully mutual is best shown by the fact that simple folk in Petőfi’s country believe, to this day, his musicalized verses to have been written by nobody in particular, i.e. to be Hungarian folk-songs.)

That Petőfi was originally a Slovak is, again, a matter of semantics. Petőfi’s partial Slovak descent can hardly be questioned. In biological terms—if biology is indeed ethnic destiny—as the son of Maria Hruzova, a Slovak woman, Petőfi was a half-Slovak. As for his “mother tongue”, Petőfi’s first language can hardly have been other than Hungarian. True, is father, one Stipe Petrovic, spoke Serbian and his mother Slovak as their native tongues. But then, as it will happen with a family of multiple ethnic backgrounds living in a “third” country, the language used within the family was also a “third” language, the language spoken by the outside world and the only language the spouses shared. For the Petőfis, or Petrovices, this language was Hungarian, a language whose native idiom little Sándor grew up with. All this does not decide, once and for all, the question whether Petőfi was a Slovak, a Hungarian or a Serb. I would personally like every Slovak and Serbian brother or sister of mine to embrace Petrovic-Petőfi as his or her own as I would like to continue believing him to belong to my own, Hungarian, nation. To call him a Slovak poet, Magyarized or otherwise, is another matter. One who wrote all his poetry, from the first syllable to the last, in his native Hungarian is certainly not Slovak (or Serbian) as a poet, whatever his genetic makeup may have been.

In sum, we should either continue to refer to Petőfi, in Wikipedia and elsewhere, as a great Hungarian poet period, or undertake to change all the encyclopaedia entries of a similar nature to read something like this: Joseph Conrad, the great Anglicized Polish writer; T. S. Eliot, the great Anglicized American poet; Eugene Ionesco the great Gallicized (or Frenchified) Romanian dramatist; Queen Victoria the great Britishized German monarch, etc. It is, of course, another matter that—unlike Victoria, who was queen for the British only—the outsdanding poets and writers of a mixed ethnic background wrote for everybody, regardless of their readers’ cultural identities or national prejudices. Petőfi certainly did so and on account of his supranational appeal he was a Slovak, as well as a Hungarian, a Serbian, a German or an Eskimo. Yes, Sándor Petőfi, or as we like to call him in his native Hungary Petőfi Sándor, was a poet and a great one.

(1) According to Slovak sources, they communicated in Slovak at home (the point is that Serbian and Slovak as Slavic languages are quite well mutually understandable, especially after some exercise), (2) What's the problem in calling someone both Hungarian and Slovak and whatever? Why this needless quasi-philosophy? Juro 22:52, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

(1) Hungarian sources make no mention of the language likely used by the Petrovices, so without the benefit of speaking Slovak my inference is based, admittedly, on guesswork. (2) No problem whatever. Although a Hungarian poet of Serbian-Slovak descent would sound more convincin to me, I am prepared to accept alternative descriptions of Petőfi's ethnic background (as I hoped my previous note would have suggested). What I do have a problem with is the use of the far from value-free term "Magyarized". (Again: see Webster's or any other major dictionary on its connotations.) (3) Whatever merits my comments may have, they were meant to be of a philological, rather than philosophical, nature. The decidedly patronizing tone of the epithet "pseudo" I somewhat resent, though. I promise to refrain from deliberately giving offence with my style, I and I ask no more of those responding to my comments. Thank you.

This will be somehow off-topic, but let me "remind" you: almost everything in the world is - in the end - just a question of definition(s), of course...:)...The purpose of this list and similar lists is not to be a list providing exact ethnical background, but simply to be a list of persons you might be looking for when thinking of "Slovak poets" (in other articles analogously)...Juro 20:14, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You're right: provided you subscribe to a "nominalist" philosphy (there you are then!). Philosophical realists, on the other hand, hold that categories, definitions, etc. reflect things "out there", i. e. they are "real". Even "nominalists" accept, however, that language, and through language human thinking, has an impact on reality--things out there. This being so, it does have some importance how a particular poet is classified in a globally accessible source of knowledge. Sorry about lecturing you on Philosophy 101 (no patronising meant--I'm sure it's all old hat to you), but the implications for our topic make it worth risking to sound a little pedantic. On Petőfi: whatever language was spoken in the family home, he went to Hungarian-language schools, gave repeated written testimony of his loyalty to liberty in general and Hungarian liberty in particular and, most importantly, wrote his published poetry, essays, and his one drama in the language of the country which his parents had chosen to make their home. In short, Petőfi wrote in Hungarian. Until a sizeable corpus of Slovak (or Serbian) language poems of a notable aesthetic quality undoubtedly ascribable to Petőfi is found, I think his classification as a Hungarian poet (which is, I admit, not quite the same thing as an individual with a Hungarian national identity, i. e. a Hungarian--whatever it is) is the only academically acceptable option. And that is nothing to say of the decidedly unpleasant overtones of the epithet "Magyarized". The removal of that offensive term from the breif entry on Petőfi in the Slovak Poets list, if not the erasure of Petőfi's name from that list, I very strongly recommend if Wikipedia is to stay true to its high standards of objectivity and non-judgemental impartiality. F. Á. 23 April 2005

OK, then, frankly, I am the original author of this list, but Petöfi and all the comments were included by other users. I did not delete the entry, because I know he is considered a Slovak poet by many Slovaks (although children learn about him as a Hungarian poet at schools), implying that this would be reverted one day. Magyarized (just as germanized, slovakized etc.) can be negative, but it can be also a fully neutral term, and as a basically neutral term (as I understand it) it perfectly describes what "happened to him". But if you have problems with the term I will change it (but cannot guarantee for subsequent edits by other users)...Juro 20:56, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I very much appreciate your "admission" of having initiated the Slovak Poets page, for which I can only congratulate you. I wish similar pages were opened to promote the contribution of other "small" nations to European and world literature. In fact I don't very much mind Petőfi's inclusion in the SP page on account of his mother and his popularity in Slovakia, even though his language as a poet was Hungarian. Nevertheless, I'm still piqued by the term "Magyarized", which does not foster friendly feelings between nations that once belonged to the Austrian-Hungarian monarchy. I'm sure that its removal, even if temporary, would much improve the quality of the page. One last word of a personal nature. I'm a Hungarian but one who'd like to believe he harbours no bigotry towards his neighbours, but one who--for perhaps understandable reasons--does not like to see views promoted by international forums that can harm the much-abused reputation of his country. That seems to be it for now. Bye F.Á.

Thank you for the change. I'll try to find out about Petőfi's popular reception among Hungary's Slovak community. If I come across anything interesting, I'll let you know so it can be incorparated in the entry on him. Stay in touch. F. Á.