Talk:Cyanuric acid

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Tautomers or llllResonance forms ?[edit]

Does anybody know whether the s-triazinetriol and s-triazinetrione forms are tautomers or resonance forms? H Padleckas 01:25, 7 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

These are indeed tautomers, since atoms cannot be moved when going between resonance forms, and you will note that the Hs have moved. There are several "mixed" tautomers possible too. I recall doing a Chem Abstracts search through the 1930s literature for a compound like this and finding about 3 or 4 of these tautomers all listed independently- a nightmare! Walkerma 15:14, 7 May 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Details at THEOCHEM (2007) 816, 125-136.
Will reference assertions made in the article soon.
Ben (talk) 23:09, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Metabolites of melamine[edit]

IMPORTANT: I am not going to change the page, because someone obviously got the reference from someplace, but there is no way that amiloride is a metabolite of melamine or cyanuric acid. It's chemically impossible, P450 subtypes will not do it. It's possible it could be made from sym-trichlorotriazine, but in man it can not be made from melamine. Can someone please check this (unpublished but reported in some newspaper) allegation ?

Second Point: It appears from the descriptions (again I can not find references) that what is being added to feed in melamine scrap, not melamine. This is presumably partially acid-hydrolyzed melamine plastic, which is not melamine at all but low molecular weight polymer. I will try to find a reference in the patent literature, but the point here is that melamine itself would not be formed in vivo from melamine-formalin low molecular weight polymer, and the latter would be toxicologically very different (and potentially, in fact, more toxic). I suspect that the toxicology of this material (unlike melamine itself) hasn't been much studied.

Again, without references which I am trying to find it is not justified to modify the page, except to possibly remove amiloride, but I would like others to see if they might examine this rather important issue. I'm a physical biochemist/synthetic chemist, not a polymer chemist.

Given the current flag, posting verifiable, if not authoritative, references of best available info seems of value to me. Along those lines, I just posted a May 1 AVMA report that refers to ammelide and ammeline as the two other substances of interest. Btw, if you find a reference that says that amiloride cannot be a metabolite of melamine, it would be really helpful to post that.
On the "melamine scrap", there is much discussion about it going on in the melamine discussion page and the 2007 pet food crisis discussion page which is probably best not added to in yet a third place. Abby Kelleyite 16:44, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

May 7 WaPost says 50/50 melamine cyanuric split[edit]

In an apparent reference to Guelph scientists, this story states that more recent measurements put the melamine/cyanuric acid split as "even", however Guelph's website bulletin (last updated May 1) still has spectrographs stating 30% melamine. I'd rather not add this info until it's substantiated, given the current agreement between Guelph's and MSU's web page reports, but wanted to note it. Abby Kelleyite 13:09, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

May 7 USA Today story [1] also reports Guelph crystals as 50/50 melamine/cyanuric acid. None of Guelph, MSU or AVMA have changed their reported numbers as of yet. Abby Kelleyite 23:38, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

While the May 4 AVMA conference call refers to the crystal composition as 50/50, leaving as is for now until the research sites update. Still cannot locate good published data to cite on the composition ratio of melamine and cyanuric acid in the solids in the protein products themselves as in the Guelph photos. Much good info on mechanism in AVMA document. Little on treatment re crystalluria. Abby Kelleyite 18:03, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No original research per wikipedia policy.[edit]

Abby Kelleyite 17:57, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

password problems[edit]

I just wanted to warn everyone that my password got hacked at Daily Kos. I've changed it now and I think the problem is under control. You may want to change yours here as well. It is best to be safe. Be sure to choose something with a strong level of protection. Abby Kelleyite 20:39, 15 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Assistance requested with waste processing of melamine into CYA and MCA[edit]

Even though I'm dealing with patents, I'm still operating a bit beyond my knowledge level. I might be able to puzzle it through eventually, but if anyone wants to offer some assistance, I'd take it since I'm getting really tired here and haven't slept much this last week. Abby Kelleyite (talk) 16:37, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to sleep. Abby Kelleyite (talk) 17:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Just read the references. Abby Kelleyite (talk) 17:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm glad we found someone smarter than me to sort this out. Abby Kelleyite (talk) 19:40, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's just too important to sleep now. Abby Kelleyite (talk) 19:41, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Melamine/Cyanuric Acid crystals[edit]

I'll try to find the references for this later, but in responce to some others, here's the scoop on the MEL/CYA crystals in animals/humans and also 'melamine scrap' comment below. First, neither MEL nor CYA is particularly dangerous by itself. At first, the manufacturers were adding pretty pure MEL and there were few problems in animals or adult humans - it's the crystals of MEL:CYA that are the problem. Later, they switched to 'melamine scrap', which contained both MEL and CYA. The issue here isn't the other crud in there (well, mostly), it was the combination of MEL and CYA. Now, crystals formed in the kidneys, hence death. The clearance for MEL is very quick - a few days at most. CYA is a little slower - maybe a week or so.

In infants,it's a different mechanism. The crystals they found in the babies' kidneys were MEL:Uric acid. Babies have much higher uric acid concentrations in their urine than adults. These crystals are what killed all the infants in China.

ChubbyTiger (talk) 14:34, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Reactions[edit]

If the triol tautomer dominates in solutions, should [C(O)NH]3 not be replaced by [C(OH)N]3 and consequently the other reactants adapted as well?

Simon de Danser (talk) 10:38, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Someone please balance the equation[edit]

The equation describing chlorinated cyanurate preparation and the direct chlorination of cyanuric acid is woefully unbalanced. I could easily make something up on the RHS to balance it, but it would not be based on actual knowledge, and it has pH implications. Something about the mechanism or conditions that favor the forward and back reactions would also be helpful. Verytas (talk) 02:20, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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