User talk:Sam Spade/Detective agency

Applications

User:Coolcat

• Interesting, will give it a shot. --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 00:11, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Do you have any case records you would like me to look into? Any evidence you have gathered (if so please send by email)? I would like to make consideration of such. If you start off with a clean slate, I will accept you at the rank of private. Remember, evidence and delicate conversations are to be conducted by email, and only public cases are to be discussed on the wiki. Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 12:10, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

There seems to be a case being made that you advance a pro-Turkey, anti-Armenian, anti-Kurd, anti-Greece POV. What say you to this charge? Be aware that while I insist upon NPOV on the wikipedia, encouraging inclusion of all verifiable POV's, in my private life I strongly sympathize with the Kurds, supporting an independant Kurdistan including portions of Iraq and Turkey. While your opinions do not prevent me from considering your application, my opinions might prevent you from accepting a position when it is offered, and so I feel inclined to disclose them. In summary, is there any truth to the charges against you, and do you have any objection to my Pro-Greece, Pro-Kurd POV? Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 12:36, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Let me put it this way:

• Anti kurd: Nope that would not be the correct way to define me. I prevented anti-kurd edits on most kurd related articles, I do not permit pro-kurd edits either. Basicaly NPOV. I will let you know majority of the Kurds who are not affiliated with PKK will declare them bad. They have been declared bad by All western Goverments, aside from the swiss, I presume. Not all Kurds want independence either, there is no reason to create an aurora of a uniform Kurdish movement when one does not exist. I prersonaly believe independece is the worst thing that can happen to Kurds in Todays world. All nations threaten that this would mean war.
  • I lived in the region they lived. Organisations like PKK make developement very difficult. The dam I was working on was to provide irrigation to the region, which has very fertile land and no water. Turkish goverment claims it is one of the most fertile chunk of land on the planet, I have reson to believe that given the vegitation around the dam. There are groups of people promoting "independent" Kurdistan, which is a POV, but as you can see there is a Kurdistan article which I spend a good portion of my time on. I dont want propoganda from either side.
  • To make long thing short, I do not like "Kurds" been higlighted, as far as anyone in the region, including Kurds themselves, they are just another minority. --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 01:02, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Anti-greek: There hasnt been a single instance of that. I lived in greece and the people are generaly nice. People opf Greece and Turkey have a lot in common however they demonside each other at a govermental level, although that appears to have calmed. I lived in Greece for some time, although I wasnt exposed to their culture as much as the Turks I have no hostility towards these people. --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 01:02, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Pro-Turk: I lived in he country, seen the best and the worst. I believe I have a clear understanding on what would offend Turks, I got acustomed to their culture most. The reson is I had an assignment at the GAP Dam construction in SE-Turkey, I had a lot of down time. Politics was what we had discussed to death with people all around. --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 01:02, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Anti-Armenian: Would be unjust to declare me as such. I understand that Armenians want to push the Armenian Genocide as a solid fact, it is an issue widely disputed - meaning there is no established facts accepted by everyone. Giving the factuality a level of uncertainty and my request to put only verifiable facts has been greeted with great hostility. --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 01:02, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
• Anything I havent covered? I got indulged in multiple cultures. I know what Turks dont like, and like, what greeks like and dont like. What italians like, there isnt much they dont like. I know the social bomb waiting to explode in belgium between the French and Dutch, the one in france between the immigrants and the French. I should not be blamed for my life experiences. --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 01:02, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • I enjoy NPOV unlike claims. They just want to present Armenian Genocide as a fact and punish me for my skeptisisim, at least thats how I would interprete constant reverts of my edits after getting involved in Armenian Genocide. --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 08:30, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• While I dont mind my dirty laundry be presented, I would prefer my counter part to be invesigated. --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 08:28, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Fair enough, and as it looks looks like others are gathering evidence against you, it would likely be in your favor to likewise gather such evidence. Something that would be of particular benefit would be examples of you editing in a NPOV manner, or a manner other than sympathetic to Turkey. Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 11:12, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I personaly do not like the dirty laundry dig up. I think a Detective agency should not exist to find all "bad conduct" of a user, but provide a report on how good and how bad the user is. I do not know who asked for my history check. --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 05:47, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

User:Davenbelle did. In any case I havn't found anything to rule you out, but I am still wondering if you have procurred any evidence in your favor, or if you have any previous experience in investigating matters of an interpersonal variety. if not, I'll take you on as a private, but I'd be interested to see what you can come up with. Cheers, Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 10:19, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I will not self defend. You are welcome to provide an objective aproach. If the "evidence" provided is solely directed at how horrible I am, I will not think highly of this organisation. --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 05:54, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I didn't accumulate that evidence, rather it was donated. if you have any contrary evidence, please let us know. I've looked into things, and I honestly havn't found anything very damning either way. I tend to agree w the ArbCom about you seeking mediation w Fadix at this juncture. Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 15:08, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I never said you did. I cant work with the user below. As he, in my opinion, declared me public enemy one. --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 14:19, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sorry about that, but the best way to beat him is to prove him wrong by being the best editor you can be. Cheers, Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 20:43, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Davenbelle

I'd like to give this a shot. While I do not like the notion of ranking, I would need to start at the rank of Sergeant ;-) I would accept a commissioned rank, if offered. — Davenbelle 23:39, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)

The point of the ranks is to differentiate who has done what. If you don't want a rank, thats fine, but to start out as a sergent you'd have to have a few resolved cases. As far as I know you have gathered a fair amount of evidence regarding coolcat. Is there anything else I can take into account as far as your previous experience? If not, I think you could start out as Lance Corporal given the experience I am currently aware of. Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 10:14, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You might want to consider this: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Libertas/Evidence#Evidence presented by Davenbelle which I feel contributed to this: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Libertas#Final decision; I made The Paper, too (see: Other cases, too). I was also the subject of a Request for arbitration; the request was quickly rejected, with the first reject coming 13 minutes after the request was made (the request was made by one of User:Libertas' socks, User:Ollieplatt). — Davenbelle 10:50, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

Very good! Thats exactly what I was looking for. Welcome aboard, Sergeant! Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 11:55, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Cool! — Sgt. Davenbelle ;-) 16:41, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

User:Howabout1

I want to join. Is this still active, it hasn't been edited in a month? Howabout1 ^{Talk to me!} 22:50, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

Cool, welcome. Sam Spade 01:47, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Gary123

I would be intrested in joing just to help out wikipedia by helping to stop malicious users. I wouldnt want to be taking any particular cause however but I'm intrested in doing investigative work.SO far in wikipedia I've mostly just created minor stubs so I guess I would start off as a privite.--Gary123 00:53, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Ok. Sam Spade 01:46, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Questions

Do you do background checks on your applicants?

Do you do background checks on your applicants? It might save on the house cleaning. — Davenbelle 00:18, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

By background checks I presume you mean contributions, --SqueakBox 00:55, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

Yup; and look-sees at wp:rfar. — Davenbelle 02:10, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

Certainly, and I also offer them the opportunity to provide me with records of their doings. Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 12:17, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

What does it offer the client that they can't do for themselves?

What does it offer the client that they can't do for themselves, --SqueakBox 02:27, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

We offer a group effort, rather than a singular approach. By pooling resources we may assist one another more neffectively than we might on an individual basis. Besides, I have been recieving alot of requests for assistance lately, and I need some help. I don't mind giving a portion of my time here to detective work, but I'm also here to be an encyclopedia editor / reader! Frankly, I saw a need, and I intend to fill it :) Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 12:17, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Who's "Archer"?

Who's "Archer"? I saw this listed that way. — Davenbelle 03:51, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

Watch The Maltese Falcon sometime ;) Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 11:52, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks; it's been quite awhile... I should have thought about it a moment! — Davenbelle 12:05, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

Power structure

I notice User:Coolcat is to be a private. Does this indicate a hierarchical organisation? What kind of power structure do you have? --SqueakBox 18:51, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)

I do not know where this ranking appears. --Cool Cat ^{My Talk} 05:50, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thats still on the drawing board. What I said was that if CoolCat joined w no evidence of previous investigating or other such work, I'd make him a private. I intend to have a ranking system based on work done, for the purpose of new and old members knowing who to go to for guidance, and to provide a small reward for a job well done.

Its pretty much optional, if someone doesn't like it they can choose not to be a public member, or choose to be without any rank. As far as power structure I delegate cases and coordinate at this pouint, but its an entirely voluntary organisation. The benefit to members is that its easier to recieve assistance on cases by joining us, we give priority to one anothers requests of course. Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 15:07, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I like the idea, where do you fit between the WP:AMA and the WP:AMI?

I like the notion of this; I'd like to see something a la Office of Independent Investigations, something in a neutral space between the AMA and Snowspinner's vigilante corps. - Keith D. Tyler ¶ [AMA] 18:43, Apr 10, 2005 (UTC)

You seem to understand the intent very well. I am a AMA advocate, and in the process of such work I often have need to investigate matters. Lately I've found a great deal more work than I have time for however, and so I started this group to solicit aid, evidence, and so forth. We'd be glad to have you aboard, btw! Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 15:15, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't like your page, will you remove it?

The information and organization contained in the sub-pages that fall under the title Sam Spade/Detective agency are inappropriate and counter to the spirit of Wikipedia. I'm requesting that you remove the page and information and cease activity related to the organization.

According to the section "What can I have on my user page?" (on Wikipedia:User page), besides information about yourself,

You can also use your user page to help you use Wikipedia more effectively: so you can use it to list "to do" information, work in progress, reminders, useful links, and so forth. It's also good for experimenting with markup (a personal Wikipedia:Sandbox).

Another use is to let people know about your activities and opinions on Wikipedia. So you might include current plans, a journal of recent activities on Wikipedia, and your opinions on how certain Wikipedia articles or policies should be changed. If you won't be editing Wikipedia for a while, drop a note on your user page to that effect.

You might want to add quotes that you like, or some of your favorite Wikipedia articles or images, or something like that. Also, someone may choose to award you a barnstar. In the unlikely event that your editing privileges on Wikipedia are revoked, a notice of this may be placed on your user page.

Generally, you should avoid any substantial content on your user page that is unrelated to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a general hosting service. Your page is about you as a Wikipedian.e>

According to the section on subpages,

More or less, you can have anything here that you might have on your user or user talk page.

According to the same page, among the things that should be avoided are

Games, roleplaying sessions, and other things that fall into "entertainment" rather than "writing an encyclopedia," particularly if they involve people who are not active participants in the project.

Similarly, "As a tradition, Wikipedia offers wide latitude to users to manage their user space as they see fit. However, pages in user space still do belong to the community."

Wikipedia has advocates whose mandate is to assist people, and in cases that require an RFA, the Arbitration Committee is quite capable of assessing evidence.

There is no demonstrated need for an organization like this, and the potential for misuse is too great. Please remove it and cease this activity.

Exploding Boy 19:06, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

I am an AMA advocate, and this is an extension of that work, providing a place to coordinate my investigations and seek assistance on the wikipedia. This page is not for the purpose of entertainment, but rather is intended to provide assistance to myself and others. Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 07:21, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't like Sam Spade, what should I do?

Are you saying that this "agency" and its activity, - amassing evidence against individuals you deem "dubious" prior to any specific charges and with the intent of it being used in subsequent actions - is sanctioned by the AMA? It seems to go against the policy statement of the AMA to " try to preserve your privacy and maintain the type of confidentiality expected of counseling professionals." This agency seems to me neither private nor professional in its conduct. --FeloniousMonk 13:08, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well, one option would be to ignore and avoid him. Another would be to discuss your concerns with him and attempt to achieve a compromise. Other reasonable options include Wikipedia:Conflict resolution. If you think he has violated a policy you might want to document that. Whatever you do, this is not the place to do it. Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 13:42, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Since Sam insists on implying here that I dislike him (see the page history for more info on how), for the record I have never said or implied I dislike Sam Spade. What I dislike is Sam's behavior, not Sam. FeloniousMonk 00:01, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Conversation (add new questions here)

Ya lost me; I mean to suggest that you consider Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#User:Fadix vs User:Coolcat. — Davenbelle 03:17, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

I was just being serious. I get your point now, --SqueakBox 03:23, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

On the serious side, I do like the private-eye concept. Unofficial; helps bring cases and such. Be careful who ya accept. fyi, I saw the Solana-as-Beast noise, and you have my sympathies. Are you part of this deal of Sam's or just talking here? I don't know Sam beyond a Welcome I got from him; paths never really crossed. — Davenbelle 03:39, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

I am the same as you, just curious, --SqueakBox 03:43, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)

Your stated purpose: "We collect data regarding dubious persons and circumstances, and put them to good use at the appropriate time and place." utterly violates the spirit of wikipedia. Taken with Sam's recent history of frivolous actions any efforts to amass evidence on individuals prior to any specific charges and recruiting others to do the same on your behalf shows you to be little more than a vexatious and mendacious litigant. Undermining your own effort, the fact you have an ad hoc organized witch hunt will cast serious doubt of the motive of any subsequent action that you or any of the crew that you assemble are party to. Vexatious litigation, and malicious prosecution are what I and others will be watching for with your new experiment in barratry.

Of course you could establish the impartiality of your effort by accepting this case and assist me with getting an apology from this insulting and litigious editor. ;-)--FeloniousMonk 18:44, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

That matter will continue to be looked into. Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 15:15, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I see... more game playing from Sam. All that is required in this matter is an earnest apology from you on my talk page that does not further insult me or misrepresent my actions and then for me to take the email and related conversations off that page. This was not a request for asssistance; I was joking in suggesting you take up our ongoing issue, hence the smiley. --FeloniousMonk 15:43, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Paradigms - What is the Sam Spade detective agency?

"Our goal is to provide top-notch investigative service to our clients, promote justice and discourage corruption, and to combine our efforts as effectively as possible" Hmmm, an investigative agency. Sounds like the FBI.

"We collect data regarding dubious persons and circumstances, and put them to good use at the appropriate time and place." BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU. Sounds like the secret police.

It seems you have more of a desire to be like the FBI then the secret police.... or maybe more of a well-informed citizen possie/watchdog group. Watchdog groups are cool. Sam Spade the watchdog? It's like Ralph Nader in a fedora.

- Pioneer-12 05:47, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Really my idea was more along the lines of Sam Spade in the Maltese falcon, only w more references ;) Sam Spade 09:14, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Request for assistance

I see you had a case against 172. I never met him before yesterday, when he engaged in a nasty series of edit wars, accompanied by rudeness on the talk page and a generally offensive attitude. if you want you can read about it at Efraín Ríos Montt. I would certainly appreciate some feedback, SqueakBox 19:10, May 28, 2005 (UTC)

He is a very difficult person, and indicative of troubles within the project. The wikipedia needs a division of labour, where abrasive bulk content contributors like 172 can be encouraged to do what their best at, and NPOV editors like me can edit for neutrality. Click here to report admin abuse 20:49, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

Talking of difficult persons.. Have you lost any contact with reality or do you really consider yourself a person with average, NPOV views? -- 790 15:42, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

Opinion

Sam, though I appreciate you very much, I don't like this thing as it appears to be right now. At least, you shouldn't show in which cases the agency is working. To show contributions of people involved in cases it's the advocates' work in arbitrations, IMO. Maybe, I'm not understanding what is the DA for. --Neigel von Teighen 14:21, 12 May 2005 (UTC)