Talk:Michelle Phillips

A Mess a Wikipedia Mess

This article and related articles about the Ms and Ps are disgustingly bad quality. It's just outright disgusting. If you can't write then don't contribute. Ten minutes here trying to weed out grammatical mistakes - when one comes originally to just read something - is about all one can take. Shame. You people are pathetic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.50.43.195 (talk) 15:01, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the thoughtful - and so helpful - critique. Tvoz/talk 04:41, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

"If you can't write then don't contribute." As you should know, introductory clauses are separated by a comma from the main sentence. So, it should be "If you can't write, then don't contribute." Stylistically, using some form of "disgusting" in two consecutive sentences, though not strictly "wrong", is redundant. After brushing up on such basics, please feel free to edit the article yourself, as Tvoz implied. Unimaginative Username (talk) 05:03, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

Dedicated To The One I Love

The song "Dedicated to the one I love" was written by Lowman Pauling and Ralph Bass, and was recorded by the Shirelles originally- the Mama's and the Papa's version was a cover. Lulu in hollywood

The Shirelles version was also a cover. The original version was by Pauling's vocal group, The 5 Royales.

• Is this shiela in some way related to Terry Gilliam? If so, I think we should be told. Albatross2147 06:48, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I have been wondering that too!--Hailey 03:37, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Mama Michelle Gilliam sings the lead vocal on "Dedicated to the one I Love" by the Mamas & Papas. It hit #2 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart back in 1967. Why is this not mentioned in the article? -Karen Lackey, March 10, 2007

Last surving member of the M&P's?

What about Jill Gibson? GoodDay 23:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm thinking that a category should be created for musical groups of which all the members are dead. I don't know if this violates Wikipedia's policy on categories, but certain lineups of The Ramones, Traffic (band) and the aforementioned Mamas & Papas only have one living member left... and when they go...--HisSpaceResearch 06:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

But however brief Gibson's tenure as a Mama, she still (like Michelle Phillips) is a living former member of the group. GoodDay 20:35, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't exactly call Jill Gibson's tenure as "Mama Jill" brief. She, was, after, all, in, the Mamas & Papas, for well, over two, months. Brief would be more like a couple of days and we all know a couple of months is far from brief. But I do agree with you GoodDay when it comes to Jill Gibson being a living former member of the group. Gibson and Phillips are the two last surviving members of the Mamas & Papas. -KarenLackey 21 January 2007

The blurb states that Michelle is the last surviving "original" member of the group. So, Ms. Gibson doesn't count. NameThatWorks (talk) 21:30, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

/* Acting career */

"Acting Career"'s final part looks like general trivia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.22.23.66 (talk) 04:45, August 21, 2007 (UTC)

She also played in the 1979 movie version of Sydney Sheldon's book "Bloodline", as Vivian Nichols. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Linda974 (talk • contribs) 13:16, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

The Mamas & the Papas

There is a discrepancy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Phillips She was replaced by Lou Adler's then-girlfriend, singer-songwriter Jill Gibson. Phillips was invited back into the group in late August, while Gibson received a lump sum for her two and a half months in the band.

and here, under "Relationship with Michelle" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denny_Doherty She was quickly replaced by Jill Gibson, girlfriend of the band's producer Lou Adler. Gibson's stint as a "Mama" lasted two and a half months.

and here, under "The Mamas & The Papas" section, on this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Phillips_(musician) "... and was replaced for two months by Jill Gibson, their producer Lou Adler's girlfriend."

Yet on the entry for Gibson, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jill_Gibson The band and their label Dunhill Records gave Jill an undisclosed lump sum for her five-month stint as Mama Jill.

So, was it two months, two-and-a-half, or five? DTavona (talk) 02:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Good question. Someone will have to look into this. I would, but am swamped at the moment and I don't exactly get paid for editing Wikipedia articles. — Frecklefσσt | Talk 14:57, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Since both Gibson and Phillips are still alive, perhaps an inquiry to both would be appropriate?DTavona 20 March 2009

Looks like the discrepancy is rather moot, at least on this page. The other discrepancies remain -- for the moment. Looking at the Musical Career section, one might even miss that she had been a member of The Mamas and The Papas! Someone has really edited that section to almost a footnote; the current de-emphasis, considering that the band was her stepping stone to other ventures, is either an odd rewrite or a public relations makeover; it is certainly revisionist. DTavona (talk) 05:11, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

editsemiprotected link to Fantasy Island

{{editsemiprotected}} there's mention of Fantasy Island (the TV show) but I can't add a link.

 Done - 2/0 (cont.) 06:21, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

New Picture guys

{{editsemiprotected}} Please change picture to a better one which is newer, or from the 1960's.

i Also agree with 'Tvoz'. this page, and the other pages involving the mamas and the papas dont have the full story and have wrong points.... such as in Michelle phillips' page where near the bottom, it says that she won 17 hands in craps, she actually won 18. while they were in the virgin islands. and mama cass was the only one that left a couple months before, because she had bught a round trip ticket, instead of a one way. so only Michelle, John, and Denny had to get some money to fly back to new york. then after that, they drove to california and recorded California Dreamin'. which John and Michelle wrote while they were in New York. Michelle had been talking about how she missed california so much when they were in new york. so that night, John had a dream about california, woke up, and started to write down lyrics in the middle of the night. he then woke up Michelle, and showed her what he had been working on. and she liked it.John told her to get up and help him finish it. and thats how it happened. I could go on all day about the rest of the mamas and the papas story. Before you guys think you know something, do some research first. oh andby the way, for those who are really interested about the mamas and the papas story, go to "www.dennydoherty.com". its Denny's website that he had before he passed on a couple years ago. it has about 15 or 20 pages about the whole mamas and the papas story that is summed up. he wrote it all, and it is one of the best things i have ever read in my life.

Michelle Phillips (talk) 03:16, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Not done: Welcome and thanks for your suggestions. The {{editsemiprotected}} template requires a request with a 'Please change X to Y' level of detail. One of our fellow editors who is interested in the article may take up your suggestions as they are presented, but the template is there to allow non-autoconfirmed editors to make changes to articles which are semiprotected. Cheers, Celestra (talk) 06:32, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Question to her Date of Birth

In the technical details below the picture is a sentence I do not understand? Born June 4, 1944 (age 66). One can not be born at the age of 66. Neither can a person who is truly born in 1944 be currently at the age of 66 today. Also the picture itself states that is was made in 2002. This also rules out that it may the age the picture was taken from. Can someone please explain the case? Thank you. 85.2.134.35 (talk) 19:12, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

The age after the birth date states what age she currently is. I think that's pretty clear. Phillips was born in June of 1944. She is 66. Some math:

 2011

-1944

-----

   67

She is not 67 yet. She will be 67 on June 4 of this year. The date below the photo of her states the year it was taken. I also think that's fairly clear. Hope this helps. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 19:23, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

(ec)That exact formatting of the data and inclusion of the age is fairly standard for wikipedia infoboxes, generated by the widely used {{Birth date and age}} template as part of the {{Infobox person}} template. Feel free to start a discussion about your (certainly valid) concern on the talkpage of either of those templates. I see some previous discussions, which found no really good alternative. If she was born on June 4, 1944, how old do you propose that she is today (April 5, 2011)? That is, how old did she turn at her most recent birthday? The age is automatically calculated using the same templates, so the same talkpages are where you would want to discuss math or display-format errors. The image caption is correct: "Michelle Phillips, 2002" because it's a picture of that person from that year. That caption is just related to the image itself, nothing to do with the actual personal bio details. DMacks (talk) 19:31, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME IS IS CLEVELAND, OH & NOT NEW YORK! — Preceding unsigned comment added by JUL724 (talk • contribs) 19:12, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from JUL724, 25 September 2011

JUL724 (talk) 19:19, 25 September 2011 (UTC) Please fix that it says that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is as if in New York when it happens to be in Cleveland, Ohio.

Fixed I think.... --Jnorton7558 (talk) 23:09, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Denny Doherty LP "Waiting For A Song" (1974)

Both Michelle Phillips and Cass Elliot contributed backing vocals to former band mate Denny Doherty's 1974 album "Waiting For A Song". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.6.173.67 (talk) 16:13, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 4 August 2013

Can you please edit "years active" for Michelle Phillips? The years active is 1962-present. 4.255.55.187 (talk) 06:54, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Jackmcbarn (talk) 03:13, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Consensus

Would anyone else like to chime in on Drown Soda changes here ? My concerns are stated in my edit summaries. Mlpearc (open channel) 13:50, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

@Mlpearc: You're making absolutely no sense. Your only criticism of my edits is that the infobox template had a designated image size. You've reverted all of the other hard work, research, and citations I've made over an extremely trivial matter. You've given not one solid reason as to what is wrong with the edits I made. Drown Soda (talk) 17:50, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

@Drown Soda: You made many changes including {{Infobox musical artist to {{Infobox person for which there is no discussion or consensus. Again (as I stated just above) My concerns are stated in my edit summaries Mlpearc (open channel) 17:57, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

@Mlpearc: I'll leave the infobox as it is then, but I am restoring the textual work I did to the body of the article—it is adequately researched and I completely reformatted/built up the bibliography with Sfn references and everything—there is no reason to undo all of that over what you're referring to. Drown Soda (talk) 18:00, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Which image to use?

Sorry I am late to the discussion here, but I prefer the Michelle Phillips 1967.JPG. The more current image, Michelle Phillips.JPG just makes her look terrible; she was caught with an inopportune facial expression. The newer one even notes that it was her in 1967. Better image. So my vote is the 1967 image. — Frεcklεfσσt | Talk 19:43, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

I can not seem to find the guideline but, IIRC, if the subject is alive, a most recent image is preferred, a older/classic image can be added if the subject is deceased. Mlpearc (open channel) 19:50, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

This sounds like something for which WP:BIOGRAPHY would have a guideline (and if they don't, this could be a chance to get them to discuss and write one:). In this case, the subject is still alive and active and has done many notable things (including being seen in production media, not just voice) since the 1960s, so I don't see a strong reason to use the older image for reasons relating to the timeframe. There's obviously a difference in style between a talent agency's publicity photo and a candid one. The candid one looks, well, candid, but I don't see it as "terrible" or "an inopportune facial expression" beyond that. DMacks (talk) 20:50, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

I personally think the 2002 photo is "inopportune," as Frecklefoot said, in that she looks stern and as if she is about to scowl; it's also not that great of quality. As far as the infobox goes, I changed it to the Infobox person template (which was also reverted and contended), as it seems more appropriate given the breadth of her career, which has not been completely focused on music. She's spent the last 40 years working as an actress almost exclusively; her tenure in The Mamas & the Papas, on the other hand, was only a few years. Granted, she rose to fame in the band and gained notoriety because of it, but does that necessarily mean that the Infobox musician template is more appropriate than person? Drown Soda (talk) 09:39, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

I agree with Frecklefoot above. look at the "candid" snapshot of Michelle Phillips in middle age, and think, "Is this the face that launched a thousand ships?" My students, reading this article, will wonder, "Her? This pretty older lady?" The picture fails to support the life described in the biography. I've looked through WP:BIOGRAPHY and cannot find the rule quoted above about "a most recent image is preferred, an older/classic image can be added if the subject is deceased." What are you quoting from? I can't find it. They mean to leave it up to us. There was a bizarre fight a few years ago over whether the picture of Zsa Zsa Gabor should be of her in her 90s, in the aftermath of a leg amputation; or Zsa Zsa when she was a Pop symbol of European glamour, with the "u." The latter won. I suggest it become policy. (Called, perhaps, WP:ZSAZSA?) Wiki articles have trouble suggesting the pop culture importance of figures like Zsa Zsa or Michelle Phillips. Phillips was famous the way Zsa Zsa or the Kardashians are famous. She created a role, in the American mind, an ideal of the California Girl. Michelle Phillips's face during the "California Dreamin'" era was what American boys were dreaming about when they ran away to California for the "Summer of Love." To be less romantic, she was part of the Sixties California brand. Include a picture appropriate to that role. We're supposed to be educating here, are we not?Profhum (talk) 06:37, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

@Profhum: thanks for this—I agree with you. It's not that she necessarily looks bad in the photo, but it's not a high quality photo by any means, and her expression in it seems to demonstrate that she was caught off guard or unaware the photo was being taken. Given the general consensus here, I think it's fair to change it to one of the available publicity photos(?). --Drown Soda (talk) 22:47, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Infobox

I am going to tentatively change the Infobox to Infobox person rather than Infobox musician given that Phillips had a divided career, and while she was in a well-known band, she has spent the majority of her career in acting and has been more prolific in film & television than she has as a musician. This only makes sense, and also allows for additional biographical details to be included (i.e. marriages, kids). I know there was a strong objection to this some time back, but no one else has expressed any concern over the issue since--if there is any objection, please respond here to discuss. ---Drown Soda (talk) 09:19, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

"California Dreamin'" and "Creeque Alley"

This article says she co-wrote California Dreamin and Creeque Alley. While I believe it is factually correct that she has received co-writer status for these songs, my understanding that John Philipps is understood to have been the sole writer, but named her a co-writer for reasons other than creative input. Given that, shouldn't this line be altered to more accurately reflect that history?

Maiden name

Is the G in her maiden name hard or soft? Could we have a brief note about that, please? Paul Magnussen (talk) 20:56, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Personal life

I'm surprised there's no "Personal life" section. I thought it was standard for Wikipedia articles to include one. Is this on purpose? Szkott (talk) 16:05, 31 October 2023 (UTC)