Talk:Courtney Love

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Featured articleCourtney Love is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on April 2, 2017.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
November 1, 2011Good article nomineeNot listed
November 16, 2013Good article nomineeListed
August 17, 2014Featured article candidateNot promoted
December 6, 2015Featured article candidateNot promoted
May 31, 2016Featured article candidateNot promoted
December 18, 2016Featured article candidateNot promoted
March 10, 2017Featured article candidatePromoted
Current status: Featured article


Cobain[edit]

Marriage[edit]

The introduction does not get to the fact she was married to Kurt Cobain until the third paragraph. Not sure if there are wiki rules on this, but it seems to me this is what she is most well known for. I cannot imagine a similar article about Yoko Ono, for example. She does have some personal accomplishments,but I don't think it's reasonable to play down Cobain as this article seems to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.39.177.76 (talk) 17:28, 1 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

She is best known for being the lead singer of Hole. You are talking sexist twaddle. 62.190.148.115 (talk) 12:39, 23 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm worshipful of Nirvana and Kurt to no end, but that was 21 years ago now. Courtney hasn't been in a 21-year period of morning here, she went on with her own life and did her own things, so I'd say that a 25-year+ career in the music industry being mentioned more prominently than a 2+ year marriage to arguably the most famous rock star of the generation. Tarc (talk) 13:03, 23 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Allegations regarding his death[edit]

I find it unbelievable there is no mention of Love's possible involvement in Kurt Cobain's death. She murdered Kurt Cobain. There are documentaries and books covering the subject. Did Love's publicist write this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.37.136.83 (talk) 22:05, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Because putting unproven allegations of murder on Wikipedia is about as serious a breach of WP:BLP as you can get 62.190.148.115 (talk) 14:04, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps make a "See also" section with Kurt Cobain, Hole, etc and maybe Soaked in Bleach? JasonCarswell (talk) 10:08, 19 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
By that same token, should Kurt's article have a link to this one in a See Also section too? 62.190.148.115 (talk) 09:34, 21 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. 2.24.145.57 (talk) 13:44, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nominating for FA[edit]

I've been wrong about this in the past, but I decided to nominate the article for Featured Article status. I have made sure all links are active/archived, reformatted the bibliography and references so that statements are meticulously cited (Love's life details, much like her persona itself, are contentious and problematic to many), and done everything I can think of that could bring this to a Featured article status. If anyone else would like to help make any last-minute additions or improvements, I'd much appreciate it— a second pair of eyes is always helpful. Citations were a big issue when I tried to nominate last time, and I've organized the references carefully and done a complete bibliography with SFN references for additional clarity. If there are things that anyone else notices that could be tweaked or improved, please let me know! I have worked on this article on and off for YEARS now. I got it to GA status and my goal is to get it FA status hopefully, especially given that it is a high-traffic article on Wikipedia. Thank you!

—Drown Soda (talk) 03:55, 9 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Good job on it. Minor point for the lead: I'm not sure "publisher Hank Harrison" should be in the lead as he doesn't appear to be notable. Also, in the second paragraph of #1982–1988: Early projects, are all those citations beside "Club Vatican" and beside the sentence on Sid and Nancy necessary? If none are superfluous or extraneous, you can bundle them up into one visible citation (WP:CITEBUNDLE). Drown Soda, I added citation needed tags to uncited statements in the sections #1994–1997: Live Through This, acting career; #2003–2007: Solo career, America's Sweetheart; #2008–2011: Hole reformation; and #Musical style; If any surrounding citations also cite those statements, you should place the citation at the end of those sentences as they are statements that are likely to be challenged. The filmography section should have more than a link to the main article in accordance with MOS:PARAGRAPHS. As long as no major/important information is missing, the article is written in WP:NPOV, giving WP:DUE weight, there's no original research, every quote is cited, every statement that is controversial or likely to be challenged is cited with reliable sources, and there's proper and consistent formatting, this should definitely pass. Btw, you can post this FAC on the talk of music wikiprojects: WP:MUSICIAN, WP:ALM. Lapadite (talk) 06:55, 9 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ha, I was on your trail! I cited the united statements that you marked, so I *think* everything has a proper citation now. Thank you for pointing those out! I'll bundle/simplify some of the other citation points you mentioned. Thank you much! —Drown Soda (talk) 07:10, 9 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Lol that was quick. Yep, at least what I pointed out from my skim. No worries. Lapadite (talk) 07:18, 9 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed this article has been nominated for FA and decided to give it a read, as it's wonderful to see people improving articles on feminist topics and women in general! I don't know enough about Courtney Love to comment on the content itself, but I think I can give feedback on general readability! :) If these points have already been discussed, feel free to ignore them.

  • "Love's mother had been adopted as a child, and was later revealed to be the biological daughter of novelist Paula Fox and an unidentified father, who is rumored to be Marlon Brando." – Can you be more specific here? I'd mention the fact that her parents were heirs already here. I also found "later revealed" to be confusing — do you mean Love's mother did not know her birth mother's identity when she was a child, or that both Love's mother and Love found out later, e.g. in the 1980s or 1990s? In general, I'd be careful using words like "revealed" and "rumored". I'd just write, "X believes that Marlon Brando was her biological father, because...".
  • "The underlying pro-feminist slant" — Is there a difference between 'pro-feminist' and 'feminist'? Unless there is a specific reason for using 'pro-feminist', I'd get rid of the 'pro'.
  • "Despite Columbia Pictures' reluctance toward hiring Love due to her low profile" — What do you mean by "low profile"? As in, she wasn't considered famous enough, and hence Columbia was worried she wouldn't draw audiences? I'd reword this so it's clearer, especially since the previous paragraphs have stated that she received a lot of publicity in 1994–1995 and was certainly A-list in the music business.
  • "during this time, she also became involved in fashion" — Did she ever comment on her reasons for doing so? Did Versace comment on why they chose her?
  • "During this time, she also landed a role opposite Jim Carrey in the Andy Kaufman biopic Man on the Moon (1999), which was followed with a role as Joan Vollmer in Beat (2000) alongside Kiefer Sutherland." — Given how well-received her performance in Larry Flynt was, I'd be interested in hearing about the critics' reactions to her later performances as well.
  • "Though a demo was completed, the project never reached fruition." — Why?
  • I was initially very confused when I read the paragraphs about When Dirty Girls Get Clean/Nobody's Daughter. I think for clarity's sake you should begin the section "Hole reformation" by explaining that instead of releasing a solo album in 2008, Love decided to reunite Hole, and incorporate much of the material she'd worked on to Nobody's Daughter. Also, why did Love suddenly ditch her solo album plans? Why did she even begin recording a solo album if she'd already realised with America's Sweetheart that solo records weren't her thing?
  • "Love and the band toured internationally from 2010 into late 2012 promoting the record, after which she dropped the Hole name and returned to a solo career." — Why?
  • The last sub-section in "career" is too list-like to my liking; I'd like to hear more about how her art works, new songs, performances etc. were received, and/or her comments about them.
  • "a female's point of view" — I think 'woman' might be preferable here.
  • I think most of the details about when she and Cobain first met could be moved to a footnote; also, when (as in what year) did Love state they met?
  • Wasn't Frances Bean Cobain mostly raised by Cobain's relatives or something? It's mentioned that Love and Cobain lost her custody briefly, but nothing is said about whether Love raised her after she regained custody? I think it would also be worth mentioning what her relationship with her daughter is like now that she's an adult; didn't FB Cobain have a restraining order issued against her at some point?
  • In "Cultural impact", you mention that "Barbara Kruger used one of Love's quotes on her NYC bus project" — I think it would be worth mentioning what the bus project was and which comment was used (and why).
  • "Selected filmography" appears to have an inline citation in a place where there shouldn't be one. Also, based on the work I've done on film-related articles, I'd list all the films Love has acted in as there aren't that many, but I would not mention her roles.
  • External links — doesn't Love have an official website? Or Hole?
  • Also, check for any double links.

I hope these comments are helpful, and good luck with the FA review :) I really enjoyed reading through this article, it's very engaging! Let me know if you'd like me to be clarify any of the points I've made. TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 15:42, 26 November 2015 (UTC)TrueHeartSusie3[reply]

Also, why not use this image: [2] in the "Cultural impact" section, given that the long quote states: "She frequently stood on stage, microphone in hand and foot on monitor, and simply let her Fender guitar dangle around her neck."? Just an idea :) TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 15:56, 26 November 2015 (UTC)TrueHeartSusie3[reply]

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Sobriety[edit]

This articles gives the impression Love is sober now and she is not, from her own mouth and other sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.115.130.236 (talk) 22:57, 5 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly sounds like another attempt to make her look bad by a Kurt Cobain murder theorist—which is nothing new here. Obviously there is no definitive way of knowing what she does on a day-to-day basis, but the consensus given her relatively normal behavior and the documented cases of her being in rehab ca. 2006-07, she doesn't appear to be the hard drug user she once was. Care to cite any sources or material where she admits to being on drugs "from her own mouth"? Drown Soda (talk) 22:28, 15 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Autism[edit]

While the article includes the reference “At age nine, a psychologist noted that she exhibited signs of autism.[21][23][24]” within the “Early life” section, the categorization of the article within the WP “Category:People on the autism spectrum” has recently been deleted. This is particularly troubling considering that Note 24 within the “References” section cites a reliable source link which states that “Love, who has garnered a well-deserved reputation as a nonstop gabber, confesses to being disturbingly mute up until then. “I didn’t ever really talk until I started hanging out in ’80 or ’81 with the drag queens at the Metropolis [or Met, a gay new wave club] in Portland. I was very, very quiet. So much so that at one point when I was very young I was diagnosed as a probable autistic.” As with Notes 21 and 23, the source link for Note 24 is incorrect, and its citation appears at a different source link ( https://books.google.com/books?id=oJSpnH7TRHsC&pg=PA47&lpg=PA46&focus=viewport ). Once corrected, this citation and source link offers additional proof that the article’s subject was diagnosed with autism at a young age. In combination with Notes 21 and 23, this additional proof suggests strongly that deletion of the article’s categorization within the WP “Category:People on the autism spectrum” was in error and should be restored immediately as one of the defining features about the subject.2001:558:6008:3B:21AD:3716:A921:81B1 (talk) 17:26, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"she couldn't live her life 'with a hole running through her'"[edit]

This isn't Love talking of herself in the third person, is it? If it's someone else's commentary, it requires in-text attribution, not just a citation. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:17, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I saw an interview where she was talking about this (the Barbara Walters Interview). It was her mom who said it, according to her account in that interview.SecretName101 (talk) 23:01, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Addition of Controversy Section[edit]

Do commons believe that a high profile celebrity like Courtney should have a Criticism or Controversy section? Or should Courtney's long list of controversies including using racial pejoratives against Blacks and antisemitism against Jews be integrated into her other sections? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eatdrinkbuyrepeat (talk • contribs) 19:21, 9 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Eatdrinkbuyrepeat:: I have redistributed some of the edits you made as they are sourced and she very much did say them, but the extent to which they garnered "controversy" is dubious as best. Your edit makes it seem as though Love has made a name for herself as a xenophobic racist or garnered significant publicity/controversy over such, which is simply not the case. Moreover, a great deal of the block paragraph in your edit is intended to mislead as it claims Love has incorporated antisemitism, xenophobia, and the like into her songs, which is also simply untrue and unverifiable.
She has absolutely said inappropriate and idiotic things, but insinuating she is a racist because of her use of the epithet "nigger" (such as the SPIN article you cited) is misleading—her employment of the term as mentioned in the source was as analogy, which is far different than her using it as a verbal assault on someone. Inappropriate? Sure. But this does not qualify as Love garnering "controversy" by mere virtue of the fact that it is mentioned in the article.
In the instance from the MTV 24 Hours of Love special, her question concerning the man's do-rag was tantamount to "Why are you hiding your natural hair?" It's easy to decontextualize and splice these things together to paint a narrative that you clearly want to propagate, but Wikipedia is not the place to do that. I'm not negating the fact that she has said questionable things, but anything of the sort has to be approached with neutrality—we are not judge, jury, and executioner here, and just because these things were said does not mean they have significantly contributed to the notability of the subject. --Drown Soda (talk) 11:02, 12 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A few years on, I think a controversy section is overdue. She is notable for controversy. 2.24.145.57 (talk) 13:46, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Vote on "Courtney did it" standalone article[edit]

I'm considering creating a standalone article named "Courtney did it" that details conspiracy theories that claim Love killed her husband Kurt Cobain. I want people to vote in this section for whether it should be made or not. -User:Danielcool123 18:15, 5 January 2019 (GMT)

Sure, do you have a draft? Jay (Talk) 17:43, 13 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

SAM LUFTI[edit]

You do know his linked name does not go to him but to Britney Spears wiki bio? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 23.120.254.61 (talk) 04:24, 12 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The link has been removed. Jay (Talk) 17:43, 13 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Sam Lutfi. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 August 13#Sam Lutfi until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Jay (Talk) 11:07, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong word / typo[edit]

In the second sentence of Artistry:Influences I find the word 'retrieved' out of place. I'd suggest 'received'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.25.86.71 (talk) 22:32, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Drown Soda, by "retrieved" did you mean "picked up"? Jay (Talk) 17:43, 13 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done. Jay (talk) 15:11, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Going in depth on the band name Hole[edit]

Hi! I can't edit yet, so could someone add to the explanation of the band name Hole, that it is "a junction of the contrast of how she felt with what she was advised to do"? My sentence can be one-to-one transferred and is a template. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SalomeBoffi (talk • contribs) 12:12, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

But that sounds meaningless... 2.24.145.57 (talk) 13:46, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 21 April 2022[edit]

I would like to change the typo of "wrotr" to "wrote" Arcade Wise (they/them) (talk) 14:23, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:33, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2023[edit]

Please change "Cobain killed himself" to "Cobain died by suicide". It's language recommended by mental health advocates and suicide prevention agencies 103.80.123.168 (talk) 15:10, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: see MOS:SUICIDE, no particular form of suicide language is prohibited on Wikipedia Cannolis (talk) 19:39, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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